"It's Not Our Fault. We Are Who We Are"

B

BattleAxe

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Feb 18, 2000
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I don't really know if this post belongs here but I don't know where else to put it and am sorry if that causes any trouble.
Believe it or not but the handicapped do collect knives too, and I am but one of what must be many more out there. It is not our fault that we are this way and sometimes cant control our environment or complete common tasks that most people take for granted. Like something as simple as going to the post office. I do not seek punishment but instead hope to enlighten others out there that you can't always tell who's on the other end that you are doing business with.
I do not speak for all, but of my own experiences and specifically my most recent dealings with a very insensitive member of the Blade Forum that inspired me to speak out This is an open letter to REVMIC
revmic,
I have received the knives from you and they are exceptional pieces indeed. Its to bad though that you renegged on the original buyer whom you referred to as a "eccentric invalid",and an "individual with a sick sense of integrity". Well He is disabled and confined to a wheel chair and He also happens to be a friend of mine, and by the way I may have forgotten to mention that I too am Handicapped. I suggest you think before you write and get a little senseativity training because we all can't always do things for ourselves and it is not our fault that we are the way we are.
I don't know who you are or what your like but I would not wish anyone not even you to live even a day the way I or my friends do.
Count your blessings and maybe come up with a SINCERE APOLOGY this time.

I believe we should all take note and learn from this so as to never have
this kind of thoughtlessness occur again. After all we all have one thing
in common......COLLECTING and DISCUSSING KNIVES.
Thank You
 
Hiya Battleaxe!!

Please allow me to be the first moderator of this forum to respond to your post.

Speaking for myself (note how I started off sounding like I was speaking from a position of authority, then smoothly disclaimered that by saying I'm speaking for myself?)... anyways, where was I?
OH!
What I was gonna say was that if this happened between you and this Revmic person privately (as in email, telephone, smoke signals... well maybe not smoke signals, that's kinda pblic) I'd say that you should keep it private.

Also, the tone of your letter implies that there's a large number of people without disabilities feeling somehow prejudiced against folks in wheelchairs carrying or collectin knives, I think you're blowing that out of proportion.

On the surface, it sounds like you're taking one person's attitude as being the standard for which ALL people physically in the same state as this person judge the handicapped.

That's not really fair, especially when the guy really seems as if he's in left field, in the foul zone, almost in the parking lot.

By the way, there's NOTHING simple about going to the post office! Those places are spooky!!
wink.gif

Anyways, I just wanted to say that it's highly unlikely that the majority of folks here have a problem with a person in a chair collecting knives.

Reminded of my last 3 mothers-in-law by your name, I remain,
VG



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Vampire Gerbil: Nosferatus Rodentus Moderatus; similar to a domestic gerbil, except for the odd accent and little black cape.
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An assortment of pictures I decided to share with anyone that was so bored they wanted to check out my antics. I did this to prove that I am indeed sane. Be advised that there's hardly any nudity.
Manifesto of Madness
I wrote most of that at work after drinking massive amounts of coffee. I needed to look busy and that dribbled out of my head. There's also a whole bunch of Optical Illusions.
The Deadly and Scary Leatherman Micra Website.
Be warned that the tactics used at that last site are not for the faint of heart!
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Any comments, suggestions or threats may be sent to:
vampiregerbil@aol.com
 
Well, complaints about online dealings and honesty/integrity relating to such really belong in "The Good, The Bad, The Ugly". That's what it's there for.

Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm going to hold for 24 hours, it's Tuesday night pacific time. If any other moderators or others have any better ideas, speak up...if nobody objects, I'm moving it there tomorrow night.

Lesse...if anybody knows an EMail addy for "the accused" in this case, forward it to the Community moderators. We'll EMail him with this thread URL. Only us moderators should do that, to avoid the guy getting flooded, that wouldn't be right.

Sound good?

Note: all I'm saying at this point is that the *type* of complaint is potentially valid. I know nothing of the players in this and I'm not speculating or taking sides so long as only one party has spoken up. The other needs a chance to respond; I'm leaving the thread here long enough for him to "catch up".

Other moderator views entirely welcome.

Jim
 
Vampire Gerbil,
If thats all you got out of my letter I'm totally disgusted. I have no idea where I implied anything even close to that. And as far as keeping it private what exactly is the Forum for. If I had written him up for screwing around with a knife deal in the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly you would have jumped all over him like he committed a felony cutlery crime. Where are your values at? I'm not a crusader and I usually like to keep my life private and now that you have totalled shreaded my thoughts I think I will choose to sign off for good. What you did is basically brand me prejudiced against all able bodied people! Thats insane,your so far off with your disection of my posting your in another dimension. Thanks for the support.
 
I'm not on the attack here. I did not post this without first sending a more personal letter to the other party involved.
 
Hey guys. I'm completely confused here. Is this about a seller who backed out on a deal and therefore may or may not belong in the G,B & Ugly; or is it about prejudice against the handicapped; or educating the membership to the fact that there are handicapped or special needs members who are knife knuts? Seems to me it's a little bit of all three. But IMHO, it's not a great idea to deal with all three in one place because the the message seems to be getting confused and lost in the heat of anger and the fuzzy details of a specific complaint. Personally, I find the special concerns of those members who are in wheelchairs quite interesting: I never thought of it and I could use some enlightening. As to the prejudice, any discrimination like that is disgusting, although whether anyone has done so is far from clear to me. AS to the specific transaction and complaint, that is an old and well trodden path that doesn't need a comment from me. Actually, none of this needs a comment from me. Never mind
smile.gif
 
OK, hooooooold it everybody.

Battleaxe, VG was re-stating a normal "house rule" at G,B&U in that you're supposed to try and solve whatever problems you've got with somebody in private EMail FIRST, before making a public complaint. I doubt he realized he was doing so, like me I don't think he tends to pay much attention to that forum - but the people who do online trading on a regular basis generally do.

He most certainly wasn't attacking you, or your story, or anything similar.

Now, if you've complained to the guy in private before posting publicly, cool, that's a good start. I've got Revmic's EMail addy now and I'm letting him know about this thread. He'll have all day to catch it here before it goes to G,B&U.

Jim

(I just realized I originally wrote "G,B&H"...why I thought "ugly" was spelled with an "H" is beyond me. I'ev been hangin' out with VG too long
biggrin.gif
.)

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 05-10-2000).]
 
Hi all. I know the circumstances that prompted BattleAxe's posting. He has been hashing over this for a while now, because he didn't want to start any problems on the Forums. I have to agree fully with him. A lot of people don't realize just how close knit our little community is. Trading back and forth creates frindships and if someone plays games with my friends, I get upset. WE ALL DO. Whenever there is a bad deal posted in GBU, all the involved parties friends come forward in support. I can understand problems with the mail, but I can't understand a supposed pious individual bad mouthing someones disabilities in any way, shape or form. Revmic, I hope you like what you see when you look into a mirror. Think about this the next time you thump your bible.

Jake

[This message has been edited by Jake Evans (edited 05-10-2000).]
 
Hey Axe-

I've never met VG, but I've read a LOT of VG, and you're not going to find a more good natured person on a Forum. I guess it could be just an act, but I'd bet a great deal that it's not. I think you misunderstood his suggetions.

I've also had some e-conversations with Jake, and read a lot of his posts, so if'n he'll vouch for you, that's the gospel for me.

I guess everyone has to begin with the understanding that a white man doesn't know what it's like to be a black man. A man doesn't know what it's like to be a woman. A child doesn't know what it's like to be an adult. And people with don't know what it's like to be without. So not being disabled, or whatever is the PC term today, I wouldn't know what it's like to be disabled. Not the same emotional place, physical place, etc.

When I was younger, I had really long hair, and for a guy that was an instant label of "Hippie". I played in some bands (still do) and liked the look. But everywhere I went I noticed that people treated me differently. I was (am) a really nice guy (toot toot) and I had to prove that for people to accept me and not stereotype me.

People all have their own prejudices, I've yet to meet anyone without them. But it's what we do, our actions, and how much we let it affect the way we treat people. I do my best to realize my prejudices, and try to deal around them without over-compensating (some of my best friends are XXX). But hey, nobody's perfect.

Don't sign off, unless you were going to anyway. One of the beauty's of a public forum like this is that everyone doesn't agree any of the time. We're a bunch of opinionated bastards (and I can say that, I am/was one!). But I believe that most of the people here are fine upstanding folks who would never disparage a person because of things like race, gender, or physical state.

Brandon
 
Gentlemen
It's about 2:30 my time, Wed 5/10.
My email server has been hit with the Love Bug and tho' I was able to receive Battleaxes' private mail last night advising that he was posting, , this is the first time I've been able to see this thread. I'm glad I got to it now, else the hanging would have already happened.

I have responded to the allegations privately, although admittedly after the fact of this posting since my first awareness of Battleaxe's issue was last night and tho' I wrote an answer, my server did not forward it till a few moments ago. So much for private discussion before public ridicule.

The facts of the "renegged" deal involve two instances of the buyer breaking his word, several unanswered emails and two phone calls initiated by me to attempt clarification of untimely performance. The buyer informed me only after the breakdown of trust that he was confined to a wheel chair and unable to leave his apartment and offered that as an excuse for his broken word. When I phoned him the second time he did not recognize who I was, seemed confused wrt the deal and then acted surprised to discover the MO which had been promised some 5 days earlier, to be still among his effects. At that time he indicated that the MO would be in my hands by the following Fri. or Sat. The schedule he suggested was reasonable for USPS priority and I agreed, tho' admittedly i was beginning to wonder. On Sat. following, when the MO did not arrive, I informed him that the deal was cancelled.

Enter Battleaxe who introduced himself as another buyer and asked me why the previous deal had fallen thru. I answered him that I had concluded that the buyer had left me hanging long enough, that he had failed to communicate, that he seemed eccentric and that he was an invalid seemingly unable to keep his promises due to dependency on others.

In a response to both the buyer and to Battleaxe last night I have stated unequivcally that a knife collector, buyer, trader etc.etc etc. and one's physical impairments have NOTHING to do with one another, unless the compliance with the agreement is effected by same. The original buyer did not indicate that there was any reason why a timely compliance with the terms of our agreement could not be effected. When he did not deliver on his side of the bargain in a timely way he did not notify me, he did not answer my email inquirys and necessitated me posting my telephone number to make contact. It was only then that he offered the reason of his dependency on others, but even then assured me that it would be taken care of promptly.

This is an anonymous and faceless medium that we are functioning in. All we have to go on is our perceptions of the other guy and his integrity or lack of it. Communications are the key to that perception. When communication is garbled, so are those perceptions. I'm very sorry that I have seemed to insult others. That's not what I'm about. Regarding sensitivity, my mother is a double amputee and wheelchair bound. I'm an MD victom and am finding that I must resort to my own chair more often with every passing day. Suffice to say, I have some idea of the view of the world from a wheelchair.

Again, I am very sorry that an offense is taken. BTW, the Bible thumping comment could be taken as an insult to a whole lot of us folks that kinda think that God IS good

You folks have a nice day
smile.gif

M

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God is Soooooo good!
MC
 
OK, on that note this is going to G,B&U. The thread will be closed on Community but OPEN in the forum where it belongs, further discussions by all parties will be on-topic there.

Jim
 
After reading both sides of this issue it sounds like this should be worked out between battleaxe and revmic in private. This one has the potential to turn very ugly.
Bob
 
From what I've read above, it seems that if anyone should post in TGTBTU, it's revmic, about the guy who flaked on the first deal. Using a disability as an excuse to break your word doesn't sit well with me; if the guy knew when he made a deal with revmic that he might have difficulties fulfilling his end of the bargain in a timely manner, he should have just let revmic know of the situation at the beginning and I'm sure revmic would've been understanding. But to not let him know of his situation, and then to later complain about it and use it as an excuse for breaking his word, is just nonsense. Revmic is the one who's owed an apology here.

Off to thump my Bible (whatever that means
smile.gif
),

Ryan

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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
Hey Ryan! Could ya take it easy with all that Bible thumpin'? You're keepin' me awake!

Vampire Gerbil, anybody that collects knives and ex-mothers-in-law is strange enough to be OK by me! You said your "last three". Just how many of them do you have? You're right about those Post Offices being spooky. I think it's all those postal workers moving in slow motion that does it.

Guys, not to belittle your condition or situation, but there are many types of disability, and some individuals out here would gladly trade places with you. It is tough! But if a person's self worth is based on the approval of others, then that person really has no self worth. The statement that was made may not have been the most enlightened thought ever uttered, but frustration can result in that kind of thing. It almost looks like the deal was doomed from the start. I guess the gist of this is, to paraphrase the old bumper sticker, "Defecation Occurs". We all have our problems. Let's move on from here.

Well my keyboard's all run out of words for now. G'nite Y'all!
smile.gif


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Dave
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Attention: Some assembly may be required. Batteries not included.
 
{putting down billy club with a sheepish look}

Okay, sorry. My arms were getting tired, anyway.
smile.gif


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For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
It seems that Jake and Elvis seem to understand, but for the other guys who just don't seem to get the whole point. It has almost nothing to do with knives, and little to do with being disabled other than the context of the offensive statements were used during a knife transaction. I guess its a communication thing and that’s why I posted it in the Community Center first. I wanted to set things straight, not punish Revmic. His knives were of superlative quality. Revmic is correct in saying it is a faceless medium and you don't know whom your speaking to. But this is exactly what my point is. That should not matter. You shouldn’t have to know before hand if a person is a certain way before deciding whether or not your words will offend them. Use your head before you say anything. Everyone deserves respect, so choose your words wisely. I shouldn't have to post that I'm handy-capped or anything else to get the respect everybody deserves.
Revmic had addressed me in private earlier and we had come to a mutual agreement but his post here is a little different than what he wrote to me. I did not do this for the original buyer and I tried to keep my posting as private as possible but now I read that he spells the whole transaction out. This didn't have to be done and serves no one save himself. He is attacking the original buyer who had absolutely nothing to do with this and is not here to defend himself. This was between Revmic and me. So let me add some things that were left out. Only 7 days passed between the time the original buyer stated his intention to buy the knives and the day they were offered to me. Just after that the original money order did arrive at Revmics and he sent it back with a pretty lame apology, if you want to call it that. When I inquired to buy the knives he offered to send them to me without needing any payment at all up front. He had stated his “paranoid” feelings and perceptions. So why after all of the broken promises and POOR dealings would he trust me over the original buyer. I still can't understand that.
There’s a lot more but I didn’t want to involve the original buyer for just this reason, It was between Revmic and me. Not the original buyer, not about the original deal, not about the knives, and not about handy-capped people. Just about RESPECT for OTHERS. That includes EVERYONE.
This was supposed to be simple and I’m now sorry I ever even started this whole thing. I’m totally disgusted with the way this went and I would like to apologize to the others that got dragged into this for they had nothing to do with it. So from here on out address all of your opinions directly at me alone. Jake and Elvis, I’d like to thank you for understanding the point I was trying to make. So I would like to put this to bed before any further damage is done.
Semper Fi
 
Battleaxe,

Since Jake and Elvis were apparently the only other members that were privy to many of the facts surrounding this transaction, it is natural that their conclusions would differ from the others. If all of the facts aren't available up front, the responses will not seem reasonable to those who are aware of them. If a handicap, illness, injury, etc. is causing one delays in meeting their part of the agreement, it would seem that a reasonable action would be to inform the other party that an unavoidable delay will occur. Many things that would seem reasonable, however, might not have been an option. The actions of Revmic concerning turnaround time and the seemingly inconsistant offers of payment options are puzzling, at best. I most definitely agree that to insult someone for disabling conditions of any kind is insensitive and unacceptable. I also would agree, as I think you would, that to use another's empathy for such a condition to manipulate a situation is equally unacceptable. Please, note that I am not inferring in any way that this was done. But it appears that there are still more issues involved here than have been made known. Since I don't know any of the individuals involved, and can't be certain that I am yet aware of all of the parameters of this situation, I will not comment further on this issue except for the following:

The statement by Revmic about your friend was not proper or acceptable. An appology would seem to be in order.

Although it is up to the discretion of a seller to determine the payment and shipment policies, common courtesy would indicate that an explanation, and possibly an appology, (privately) to you and your friend would be appropriate.

The reactions of the original buyer to Revmic's inquiries could appear irrational and questionable to someone unaware of that person's condition and situation. An explanation to Revmic (privately) would seem to be in order.

It has never been an issue here in the Forums before, so I have never mentioned it, but I am permanently disabled, as well. The only reason that I mention this now is so that you might be aware of my perspective on that subject.

Good luck to all parties involved. I sincerely hope that you can resolve this to the benefit of all.

smile.gif


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Dave
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Attention: Some assembly may be required. Batteries not included.
 
OK, once more for those of you in the cheap seats. it comes down to this, He used improper or insenseitive language in a communication with me. PERIOD. Stop over analyzing what is being said as all your doing is bringing up issues not in play here. It went from something so simple to this multi-faceted malignant jumble of thoughts and words that I don't even recognize anymore and I wrote it. So unless you have something constructive to say or receive a revelation from up high, be original and don't say anything, before more innocent and GOOD people get invovled and hurt. I consider this matter over and done with. I won't continue to repeat the same thing over and over again. It's Back to business as Usual
 
::::::totally avoiding the main topic of this post; just answering the detective in the raincoat:::::
Columbo - I'm currently on my 3rd mother-in-law. She's kinda nuts. Not as bad as the first two though.
The first one actually slipped me the tongue on a "friendly" goodnight kiss.
The second one is evil, personified.
The current one doesn't bother me much as she lives 400 miles away. (I did hear her growl once.... I wasn't recycling in my own house and she kinda growled and freaked when she found an aluminum can in the garbage. Once her mouth stopped foaming, I explained to her that my town doesn't recycle, therefore into the trash my coke cans go.)
All this is to say that I don't "collect" mothers-in-law.... I just have some in my past.
We agree on the post office, whew!
Although I've found that they move faster if you're a guy that looks like me and you run at them naked, screaming, "I'M A STAMP! LICK ME!! LICK ME!!"

Happy to end on a positive note, I remain,
VG
PS - I'm running for President. Wanna see?
 
BattleAxe,
I read through this and just wonder if you had taken the time to go from top to bottom on all the posts here. If so, you might see that people are largely replying in response to your 'reactions' to what others said.... First of all, you call out another Forum Member for being insensitive in his communications (calling your friend 'eccentric invalid', 'individual with sick sense of integrity', etc.) yet you immediately use a public forum for that same purpose in a selfish manner stating that he needs 'sensitivity training' and that 'he should think before he writes'. That may all be fine and true but you are just as guilty as he for the crime you mention above. Furthermore, his statements were directed to an individual and he may have been absolutely correct in his statement but simply used 'invalid' instead of 'physically challenged' yet your post would imply a more sinister motive. Secondly, your response to Vampire Gerbil was WAY out of proportion to his post and you passive-aggressively threaten to 'quit' the Forums because of this!? Forgive me but that sounds very similar to the tirade I hear from my 5 year old daughter when she 'can't win' at Chutes And Ladders so she says she doesn't want to play anymore! Then, in your longer response, you go on about how it didn't have to turn out this way and you would like everyone to get the respect they deserve. Well, I double checked and am looking at it right now, your post was first so you brought this on yourself. As far as the respect thing goes...... In Kindergarten everyone 'deserves' respect. After that, the majority of people who 'get' respect (fat, tall, skinny, small, disabled, male, female, gay, animal, vegetable, mineral, etc, etc, and so on) are the ones who have 'earned' respect. This is where I feel your plan may have become your enemy as you had the chance to 'earn' respect by dealing with this directly and in private. Instead you used a public forum which would have been fine had you used an 'anonymous' approach but instead you named names and made it personal. You say you didn't want to punish the person involved but you post a 'public' open letter to him.!? Exactly what were your original goals in doing this? I would think the response you got would have been exactly what common sense dictates in an open public Forum. I just wanted to sum up what I see in the posts in that REVMIC was pissed at your friend for 'whatever' and he called him 'whatever'. If what he said pissed you off you should have dealt with it one on one and if nothing came of it you should have simply lived your life in a way that would make others see your point by the example you lead. There was no need to post publicly unless YOU wanted something more than that or perhaps acted in haste but further posts state you stewed over it for awhile! If you haven't lived long enough to learn that the world is a cruel and unfair place then perhaps you are not old enough to be purchasing these knives in the first place. REVMIC has the right to think, feel, and say anything and to anyone he wants. It's that person's right whether or not to listen. Furthermore, it is your ability to be upset and do something about statements like that which make our Govt (and subsequently acts like the ADA) great. I see too many people stepping on egg-shells around this issue when we should be happy that you can be pissed off and stick up for yourself but at the same time not be afraid to say if we think you are making a mistake, disability or not! And we should also be happy that REVMIC can say what he wants as can we all. To make a long story short, you should not have judged REVMIC at a point of weakness then posted on a public forum your concerns lest you be judged the same way. I think we can all learn a FEW lessons from this thread!
Shawn

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'With aching, trembling hands
We cling so tightly to them
Long after they have turned to dust.
..... Dreams die hard!'
SMC
 
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