I've been tempted by the dark side. Solutions ?

[craytab]

So for me, its quite simple. I don't steal and I don't buy stolen goods.

And knowingly doing so is particularly aberrant. Then coming to this community to promote it is a next level of yuck

 

[danbot]

And knowingly doing so is particularly aberrant. Then coming to this community to promote it is a next level of yuck

Yes, the "knowing" is everything. But when you are getting something normally worth $200+ for $35 or $40... How can you not know?

 

[marcinek]

I've had expensive things that I've worked hard to acquire stolen from me and I knew they were going to be sold to someone else for a fraction of what it cost me. That feeling really sucks! So for me, its quite simple. I don't steal and I don't buy stolen goods.

Yes. And we are here because we are passionate about knives and the folks who make them. Buying a "clone" seems like the exact opposite of what anyone who would bother to take the time to join here and participate would do.

I don't get it or the "excuses." "It's just for the scales." "I don't buy clones because the quality isn't there." etc etc

Odd. Oh well.

 

[craytab]

Yes, the "knowing" is everything. But when you are getting something normally worth $200+ for $35 or $40... How can you not know?

I think folks know, but not exactly the extent of the damage. I sure didn't know how bad clones were when I first joined. That was one of the best things I have gained from this place: knowledge of how bad cloners really are. It may be a small part but in this corner of the internet we can do something to help fight the counterfeiting. It does work. Take this thread for example. OP bought the real deal instead. Honest people confronted with the facts often do the right thing. Those who don't will never be quality members here.

 

[PWatkins]

I

I had to look that up. I was picturing you meant drilling very shallow dimples into the surface. But you meant using a soldering iron or wood burning tool right ?
That's a thought.
Thanks !

Believe he uses a soldering iron. Congrats on the new knife. Mine has served me well.

 

[DocJD]

Is that a single zip tie that you split in the middle to make two loops? one for each side of the thumbstud? I want to know!

Single zip tie that's figure 8'd around both sides of the thumb stud . Not really attached or sturdy , but it works and I have some that have been gently but actively used for years. If the thumb stud is easily removed , I have a better way . Might even someday invest in those snaggletooth things .

 

[DocJD]

I think folks know, but not exactly the extent of the damage. I sure didn't know how bad clones were when I first joined. That was one of the best things I have gained from this place: knowledge of how bad cloners really are. It may be a small part but in this corner of the internet we can do something to help fight the counterfeiting. It does work. Take this thread for example. OP bought the real deal instead. Honest people confronted with the facts often do the right thing. Those who don't will never be quality members here.

"Quality members " LOL !

 

[Minirehak212]

I think folks know, but not exactly the extent of the damage. I sure didn't know how bad clones were when I first joined. That was one of the best things I have gained from this place: knowledge of how bad cloners really are. It may be a small part but in this corner of the internet we can do something to help fight the counterfeiting. It does work. Take this thread for example. OP bought the real deal instead. Honest people confronted with the facts often do the right thing. Those who don't will never be quality members here.

I'm sorry for my ignorance on the subject of knife cloning but do you consider clones and counterfeit the same thing? Take a company like Ganzo who uses their own branding without completely ripping off the inspiration of the knife. Do you consider that on the same level as someone making fake Spyderco's?

I only ask this because I came from a Bass guitar community first, and every company and their mother makes Fender bass clones with their name on it. Everything from sub 100 to full custom instruments borrowing from the same platform. I think because of that I don't see the deal with "clones" but straight up counterfeits are wrong. As long as there is no fake branding, and it's not in the direct price competition, what is the company losing? Especially stuff like clones of discontinued mid techs that sell for +700?

 

[craytab]

"Quality members " LOL !

The mods are getting tired of this bickering and especially your insults. Do you not remember the warning? You even apologized and tried to delete it. Can we stick to the subject please.

And yes, quality members here aren't Clone supporters. This is clear from the rules, the mods, and the vast majority of the people here. So much so, the op decided not to be a clone supporter. The correct decision. If you have a differing opinion on his choice I'd like to hear it, but we both know how that will go. This forum doesn't support knock offs, clones, or counterfeits.

 

[DocJD]

The mods are getting tired of this bickering and especially your insults. Do you not remember the warning? You even apologized and tried to delete it. Can we stick to the subject please.

And yes, quality members here aren't Clone supporters. This is clear from the rules, the mods, and the vast majority of the people here. So much so, the op decided not to be a clone supporter. The correct decision. If you have a differing opinion on his choice I'd like to hear it, but we both know how that will go. This forum doesn't support knock offs, clones, or counterfeits.

 

[danbot]

I'm sorry for my ignorance on the subject of knife cloning but do you consider clones and counterfeit the same thing? Take a company like Ganzo who uses their own branding without completely ripping off the inspiration of the knife. Do you consider that on the same level as someone making fake Spyderco's?

For all intents and purposes...yes.
.....And Ganzo sucks!

 

[craytab]

I'm sorry for my ignorance on the subject of knife cloning but do you consider clones and counterfeit the same thing? Take a company like Ganzo who uses their own branding without completely ripping off the inspiration of the knife. Do you consider that on the same level as someone making fake Spyderco's?

I only ask this because I came from a Bass guitar community first, and every company and their mother makes Fender bass clones with their name on it. Everything from sub 100 to full custom instruments borrowing from the same platform. I think because of that I don't see the deal with "clones" but straight up counterfeits are wrong. As long as there is no fake branding, and it's not in the direct price competition, what is the company losing? Especially stuff like clones of discontinued mid techs that sell for +700?

Good question. We are enthusiasts here as I would assume many in the bass guitar community are as well. We care greatly about supporting quality. You and I both know some of those low quality guitars are crap. Difference being, when that crap guitar breaks it usually just stops working. When that clone with super low QC fails your fingers are at risk.

The argument you have brought up is one we have heard many times. In other industries copying and cloning happen all the time. I get that. However, that doesn't mean we need to put up with it in this community for knives specifically. This is a knife forum after all. I guess there might be people on a spatula forum that care as passionately about clone spatulas but I don't know. Knives is what we care about here.

Let's take the company you mention: Ganzo. They create almost exact copies of knives of most of the big knife companies, with their own name on them. They even sell in bulk to at least one American knife "maker" who has his own name on the knife. Those are all stolen designs. And it is not just a cloning issue with Ganzo. Take the knife pictured above by a clone supporter. Not only is the entire design of the knife stolen, the locking mechanism is a direct counterfeit. For years ganzo advertised the lock as the axis lock. That was illegal here in the US as the design was patented. So stolen design and counterfeited lock.

The question is good. There is a lot of grey area when it comes to clones. It is a bit like porn. You know it when you see it. Spend some more time around here and you will know it when you see it. Clones that is, not porn.

 

[Wowbagger]

wait? you can't get a rat1 or 2 in g10 scales??? really?... I always thought they had those

Yes the various vendors seemed to use the terms :nylon, G10 interchangeably but when I zoomed in the scales always looked the same. Heck I don't know; there may have been some limited runs. I do know one can spend $89 plus shipping for a "carbon fiber" Rat 1 and it seems to have the same scales as the glassy slick $47 with shipping CF rat II. And then to top it off one can get a basic Rat I for less than a basic Rat II.
It's fun.
I've debated taking down the photo of the clone. Maybe Ontario will see it and offer a more realistic work knife. No paint on the clip or blade and more traction on the scales. That's "competition" improving the product right ?
I don't know . . . there was no way I was going to buy an exact replica just because it was cheeper ; that's clearly wrong. But when someone picks up a tool and says :Lets get rid of this and this because these are just stupid mistakes or design flaws or unrealistic glitz and . . . oh lets fix this and make it more useful and practical and then puts it out there to see if anybody agrees and is willing to pay for it.
Well that catches my attention.
The fact that they undercut the price. We've been playing that game in America ever since Walmart forced many, many of our home manufactures to leave the country for cheeper labor . . . I see people here all the time talking about going to Walmart for their knives.
I for one will not set foot in a Walmart and since they opened their doors more than twenty years ago I have only ever been in one of their stores twice in all that time and only purchased something once. I was making up my mind about them way back then.

PS: what I purchased was a very well made and highly innovative and useful tool box that I still use and prize to this day. Of course they stopped carrying it.
But if I have to take jobs away from people here who had a job just so I can help Walmart put their competion out of business (read small hardware stores as well as competing manufactures) then I don't want to do that. Period.

So I ask the table pounders to consider their shopping history around that.
I'm glad you are a table pounder . . . so am I

And by the way I was ASKING if that company who will no longer be mentioned was legit.
I had never heard of them until yesterday.

 

[Wowbagger]

Single zip tie that's figure 8'd around both sides of the thumb stud . Not really attached or sturdy

Zip ties on Syder holes creep me out. This is the first time I have seen one on a thumb stud.
bear with me . . .
what I wanted to convey is there are wire ties and then there are WIRE TIES.
Search out the high tensile test ties with the metal tooth. If you haven't already. They will be much more sturdy.

 

[danbot]

So I ask the table pounders to consider their shopping history around that.
I'm glad you are a table pounder . . . so am I

Hahaha! I won't shop at Walmart either.
Ultimately Walmart was giving a lot of cheap people what they wanted and poor people what they needed. Lower and lower prices. To achieve that cheap foreign labour had to be exploited. To continue it, quality had to be diminished.
I do not want to see that happen to our beloved high quality knives!! I will gladly pay top dollar for quality knives made by well paid workers , even if it means I cant always have everything I want.

 

[DocJD]

Hahaha! I won't shop at Walmart either.
Ultimately Walmart was giving a lot of cheap people what they wanted and poor people what they needed. Lower and lower prices. To achieve that cheap foreign labour had to be exploited. To continue it, quality had to be diminished.
I do not want to see that happen to our beloved high quality knives!! I will gladly pay top dollar for quality knives made by well paid workers , even if it means I cant always have everything I want.

"Quality members " hate Walmart ?

 

[danbot]

"Quality members " hate Walmart ?

Hate? No. I have no respect for their business model though.
You will understand if you ever become a quality member!

 

[Wowbagger]

I will gladly pay top dollar for quality knives made by well paid workers , even if it means I cant always have everything I want.

Well said !
I'm there.
PS: I'm afraid in many instances well paid is long gone. I was well paid once. I remember what that was like.
PPS: and what I do can not be exported=service.

 

[craytab]

"Quality members " hate Walmart ?

Nope, I'm done. Edited my post. Not worth responding to and furthering the nonsense bickering.

 

[danbot]

PS: I'm afraid in many instances well paid is long gone. I was well paid once. I remember what that was like.

True. Its all relative though. *shrug*