I've been working on a frame lock design!

[0037ksm]

I'm in regardless of final spec, so please put me down as a confirmed order. If I had my druthers, The first thing I'd ask is that it be between 3-3.5", no more, no less.

 

[buckmaster96]

Please add a flipper! It makes for awesome deployment, and a great guard.

+1 i vote for something more along the lines of h13 holds an edge better and is tougher than s7.

if you can you should do bearings for the bushing

make the ti scales .188 thick. (its already big whats another .64 inches)

make the stop pin visible like on hinderer designs or even a thumb stud like the 560 but make it useable and make sure they aren't so big that you can sharpen your edge in front of them ( i don't like oval holes in blades)

lastly put a stone wash finish on the Whole thing and not like a cheap stone-wash I'm talking so good of a stone wash that you get pissed at the knife because it wont wear

and a given you must carbidize the lock-bar

 

[gooeytek]

S7, 3V, D2, or even M4. Don't really need anything tougher than S7 in a knife, especially in a folder. I'd give up some of the toughness of S7 to get it up in hardness to better hold an edge, and the Havok X is proof of just what that can do. As beefy as this folder is going to be, I'm not going to be chopping or prying with it. High hardness and edge retention is what I'm looking for in a folder steel.

0.155" thick Ti works for scales, it's the same thickness Jeremy Horton used on my TAC-4 and is just right. It's thicker than my ZT0560 despite the ZT having thicker Ti (0.172") because of the blade, and makes the TAC-4 feel better in-hand. Nath is customizing an Emerson for me, turning it into a framelock, and he is using 0.160" Ti only because the other option was 0.125" and I think that's too thin.

Another key element, the pivot. Bigger is better, and please no funky ones that need a special tool to adjust and at least T8 torx to hold it all together. Overbuilt. Make mine with a thumbhole.

 

[elof_alv]

This might be silly... can you HT them with hamon on the non-stainless steels?

And of course there must be stonewash!

 

[IMWILSON]

Well I can't pass up a Fairly Folder so I'm in. 3" to 4" blade for me, 4" is legal limit here.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

5+ inch handle is fine by me, I have pretty large paws anyways. Just for an idea, I can hide my skyline in my fist...

I discovered something pretty cool on accident the other night sharpening my skyline, the thumb studs are th correct length to set the bevel for the edge! Just lay on the stone so the edge and stud are both touching and it is the same angle! I put one layer of e-tape over the studs so it didn't load up the stone with softer steel and it really helped me freehand by haveing a reference point for angle, just like my straight razors. I don't know if you can pull that off within reason on a thick blade, but for the thickness-height ratio of my knife it worked!

I think if you did a swedge on the forward half of the knife the stabbing resistance would go down without compromising strength. Hand lapping for flatness on the pivot is a good idea but I don't like it polished mirror smooth. You need a certain amount of "roughness" to hold oil anyways. I assume your going to use PB washers? Seems the PB and teflon washer combonation allows just a tiny amount of blade play. A thought on back spacers, stand off are great but as Kevin and I found out on a couple of RAT1's can cause all sorts of alignment issues with blade centering when disassembled and reassembled. I think if you did a G10 one for a portion of the back with stand off on the butt to allow debris removal would accomplish you rigidity goal, reduce cost and eliminate complications.

Just my two cents...

-Xander

Great stuff there! Cool on the sharpening angle, that makes sense.

For washers maybe Phosphor Bronze or Nylatron. There are ups and down to both...

Spacers versus standoffs - I have a lot of reasons to prefer standoffs, accuracy, looks and my process being a few. Great point on the cleaning, I still don't rule them out... maybe when I get a surface grinder or mill.

Thanks for the input Xander, your help is invaluable!

Thick blades can cut well, it's just a matter of having the right blade geometry which I know Daniel has a good handle on. Jeremy Horton also understands how it works, here's some edge shots of the TAC-4:


It really is as sweet as it looks. Bring on the beefiness DF!

Great photos and knife! J is the man.

True on the blade geometry, as you know with a chisel you can have a thinner blade section with the same grind angle. The thick spine and ricasso makes for tons of strength yet the weight is not over the top, especially with a near zero edge.

I'm in regardless of final spec, so please put me down as a confirmed order. If I had my druthers, The first thing I'd ask is that it be between 3-3.5", no more, no less.

You are already on my list!

This one is a roughly 3.1" blade so that sounds good! I could change the design (I'm on version 100 or so!) but I agree, 3-3.5" blade.

I can only carry a 3.5" blade here in CO (lol I used to have a machete in my car until I found out) so I want something I can carry as well. Anything bigger seems huge to me, at least for public use.

One thing is... NO SERRATIONS, yay!!!! The blade will be easy to sharpen too, I have noticed a lot of folders are literally impossible to sharpen all the way.

Thanks, I really appreciate your feedback.

+1 i vote for something more along the lines of h13 holds an edge better and is tougher than s7.

if you can you should do bearings for the bushing

make the ti scales .188 thick. (its already big whats another .64 inches)

make the stop pin visible like on hinderer designs or even a thumb stud like the 560 but make it useable and make sure they aren't so big that you can sharpen your edge in front of them ( i don't like oval holes in blades)

lastly put a stone wash finish on the Whole thing and not like a cheap stone-wash I'm talking so good of a stone wash that you get pissed at the knife because it wont wear

and a given you must carbidize the lock-bar

H13 - better edge holding than S7? I could be wrong but from my understanding H13 does not get very hard, maybe 55 RC from my readings. S7 can be much harder, 58 or so. The comparison charts on S7 are misleading because they show it at a low RC.

I got you on the carbidizing, the lock face will be carbidized!

Stonewash sounds great!

Thanks for the feedback!

S7, 3V, D2, or even M4. Don't really need anything tougher than S7 in a knife, especially in a folder. I'd give up some of the toughness of S7 to get it up in hardness to better hold an edge, and the Havok X is proof of just what that can do. As beefy as this folder is going to be, I'm not going to be chopping or prying with it. High hardness and edge retention is what I'm looking for in a folder steel.

0.155" thick Ti works for scales, it's the same thickness Jeremy Horton used on my TAC-4 and is just right. It's thicker than my ZT0560 despite the ZT having thicker Ti (0.172") because of the blade, and makes the TAC-4 feel better in-hand. Nath is customizing an Emerson for me, turning it into a framelock, and he is using 0.160" Ti only because the other option was 0.125" and I think that's too thin.

Another key element, the pivot. Bigger is better, and please no funky ones that need a special tool to adjust and at least T8 torx to hold it all together. Overbuilt. Make mine with a thumbhole.

Good stuff... I treat all my S7 to as hard as I can get it (well there is a lot to it but I go for maximum hardness with a small grain size) it is so tough at any hardness that there is no need to temper much hardness out of it.

Cool the .155" sounds good, I think around that is as thick as they need to be. I had considered .125" scales with none or little milled relief but lets face it, thick is cooler! The thick Ti helps with a lot too, it should last forever wear wise.

Thanks Gooeytek, I really appreciate your input!

This might be silly... can you HT them with hamon on the non-stainless steels?

And of course there must be stonewash!

Hamon - you can get a hamon on 1075 (the low Mn version), 1095, W2 and a few other water hardening low manganese steels. The trick to a hamon is that the steel must be shallow hardening, generally on simple steels the Mn makes the steel harden fully so teh less Mn the better for a hamon.

I may try this in the future, right now I will stick to air hardening steels for the stability they have during HT.

Great question!

Stonewash - for sure! It is my new favorite finish.



Thanks guys, great input and questions!

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Well I can't pass up a Fairly Folder so I'm in. 3" to 4" blade for me, 4" is legal limit here.

Sounds great! Thanks!

 

[trkJr]

Well, I'm in whether it's S7, M4 or most any steel choice gets the popular vote. Would prefer a blade no longer than 3" for legal California carry.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Well, I'm in whether it's S7, M4 or most any steel choice gets the popular vote. Would prefer a blade no longer than 3" for legal California carry.

Sounds good, thanks for the input!

I'm glad you mention CA legality, it seems a lot of states have a 3" law.

I used to like in St.Thomas USVI and carried a machete everywhere when I was hiking, lol I bet I would get some looks here!

 

[flatblackcapo]

I say fo shisel on the chisel ! Just make mine lefty and I trust you on the rest.

I'm glad you mention CA legality, it seems a lot of states have a 3" law.

me to, I didn't know that (I should have I know)

 

[Lycosa]

Daniel- Will you offer a half Ti, half G10 handle?

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

I say fo shisel on the chisel ! Just make mine lefty and I trust you on the rest.

me to, I didn't know that (I should have I know)

Chisel all the way!

Daniel- Will you offer a half Ti, half G10 handle?

I think so, I may offer thin scales on both sides also. My first dozen or so will all be the same, I want to nail the design!

 

[elof_alv]

I'll be happy with either steel, and I know there is no point to differentially HT a folder blade... It just would be cool!
My understanding is that if you stonewash a DHT there will be two distinctive finishes on the harder and softer parts.
After stone washing some of my factory folders i noticed that oil/lubricant stays in longer and the opening is smoother.
A 3ish blade is all I need in EDC folder, and I guess most folks don't need more than that...

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

I'll be happy with either steel, and I know there is no point to differentially HT a folder blade... It just would be cool!
My understanding is that if you stonewash a DHT there will be two distinctive finishes on the harder and softer parts.
After stone washing some of my factory folders i noticed that oil/lubricant stays in longer and the opening is smoother.
A 3ish blade is all I need in EDC folder, and I guess most folks don't need more than that...

I agree, in fact for strength fully hardened is better in my opinion, no grain boundaries and pearlite. I do think there can be benefits from a hamon or differentially heat treated blade though, you can bend a bent one back to straight sometimes and in battle a hamon can stop a tear in a blade from making the blade break. Of course this is a vast topic subject to lots of debate, I can see both sides though.

...you can differentially harden a lot of steel types, only some will have enough difference to show a hamon. My older 5160 and O1 blades were differentially hardened and they show a straight quench line when etched. Phill Hartsfield was able to show a hamon of sorts in A2, who knows how!

True on the tumbling, the different hardnesses will tumble differently. I'd like to try one eventually and see, that would be cool. Bead blasts can also have a cool effect but I have no blaster, that would be fun to try as well.

 

[elof_alv]

I agree, in fact for strength fully hardened is better in my opinion, no grain boundaries and pearlite. I do think there can be benefits from a hamon or differentially heat treated blade though, you can bend a bent one back to straight sometimes and in battle a hamon can stop a tear in a blade from making the blade break. Of course this is a vast topic subject to lots of debate, I can see both sides though.

...you can differentially harden a lot of steel types, only some will have enough difference to show a hamon. My older 5160 and O1 blades were differentially hardened and they show a straight quench line when etched. Phill Hartsfield was able to show a hamon of sorts in A2, who knows how!

True on the tumbling, the different hardnesses will tumble differently. I'd like to try one eventually and see, that would be cool. Bead blasts can also have a cool effect but I have no blaster, that would be fun to try as well.

Again, there is no need for it, I know, but some of the hamons makers here post pics of are really spectacular. Add the stonewash, stonewashed Ti handles and you get a really elegant and subdued knife...

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Again, there is no need for it, I know, but some of the hamons makers here post pics of are really spectacular. Add the stonewash, stonewashed Ti handles and you get a really elegant and subdued knife...

For sure! I forgot to mention I love hamons, they are really cool.

I'm hoping to do a run of W2 kiridashis eventually, it will be fun trying to get the best hamon, it is tough getting one to pop out... good clouds even cooler and tougher to get but man they are awesome!

I really like the stonewashed hamon idea, that would be classy.

 

[elof_alv]

It would!
And you Sir seem like the most likely candidate to take on the challenge!
I mean, you do experiment with things and seem to be curious enough to try things like that

 

[trkJr]

Sounds good, thanks for the input!

I'm glad you mention CA legality, it seems a lot of states have a 3" law.

I used to like in St.Thomas USVI and carried a machete everywhere when I was hiking, lol I bet I would get some looks here!

California knife laws are really confusing and different both by how they define what type of knife it is and who's doing the defining. State law says one thing and some cities or towns make more strict rules. SF, Oakland, Los Angeles have a 3" limit. But State law doesn't have a length limit as long as the knife isn't banned by PC 16100-17360 (You can't carry a dirk or dagger or a folding knife in open or locked position) but you can carry a folding knife concealed in your pocket without any length limit.
But schools can say nothing over 2.5" if it's allowed at all. Nothing longer than 4" in public buildings if allowed at all but Court buildings generally say no knives whatever the length is.

Plus they've changed many of the actual Penal Code #'s so it's difficult for leo's to keep up with the laws themselves. Very frustrating and makes you want to tear your hair out. So I try and stay under the radar. Sometimes I take a hike just to wear a longer fixed blade, even though the sheeple freak out if they even see it. Have lost track of the # of times I've had to explain the laws to them.

 

[0037ksm]

Speaking for myself, I'd like to see Ti on the lock side and your amazing micarta glow scale on the other side.

 

[racingfirefighter]

I know I would love one in S7 but everything everyone has said sounds awesome as well. Jeremy's Folders are awesome. One day Id love to own a couple of them and one of these from Daniel. Whats the projected price bracket for these? I may need to start saving now.