I've lost respect for Rick Hinderer.

I believe that much of this has to do with the original poser, I mean "poster's" opening volley.

In the title of his thread he takes a direct cheap shot at Rick Hinderer- I am quite sure they have never met or done business before, but safely tucked away behind his computer screen, he felt comfortable to behave like this anyway.

If he would have run into Rick at a show, he would have been begging him for a knife, and not accusing him of wrong doing or whatever he was accusing him of.

In many threads on many forums, the tone and substance of the opening remarks can often set the stage for a resulting thread - like this.

I know Rick Hinderer- have known him for many years. Met him at countless knife shows- I am not a dealer of his knives but I can say that they are extremely well made, in great demand and highly sought after new/direct from Rick, through his dealer network, on forums sales areas and at shows.

Also, as we know, due to a multitude of reasons (in no particular order), from scarcity, to intelligent marketing to the demand for the superior quality of the knife they fetch a handsome profit on the secondary market.

SO? Good for him and good for the seller and good for the buyer- everybody seems to win - right?

This is the name of the game- why is it so irritating to some, like the OP? Maybe just jealousy and frustration at not being to get what he wants? Who knows?

As said already, most of us on these boards live in free countries and can manage our lives as we see fit. If we buy a house and the market goes up and we can sell it for a profit, then should we feel badly?
I am sure the OP wold be overjoyed to find him/herself in a position like that.

Take care, all.

Neil Ostroff
www.truenorthknives.com
Professional Dealer of Custom and Production Knives since 1999
 
Interesting thread:thumbup:

It should also be noted that pricing is a sort of "feedback" for the makers (and the buyers)

Prices perform three functions in organizing economic activity: first, they transmit information; second, they provide an incentive to adopt those methods of production that are least costly and thereby use available resources for the most highly valued purposes; third, they determine who gets how much of the product––the distribution of income. These three functions are closely interrelated.
Click to expand...
http://agem.com/Free%20to%20Choose.htm
Maybe Rick will get his feedback and adjust his prices accordingly (up OR down)?

I believe Les to be correct that "value based" pricing is the "new trend"
"Cost-plus" (and in a sense the "labor theory of value") pricing is a thing of the past and inefficient

Book recommendations for those interested more in pricing theories:
This is the BEST book on pricing
I would recommend all makers read this one
It even has pricing tactics..w00t!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Strategy-Tactics-Pricing-Growing-Profitably/dp/0131856774

If you are hard core and like a lot of algebra, calculus and Cartesian plane graphs===>
http://www.amazon.com/Price-Theory-Milton-Friedman/dp/020230969X#

I find it wierd how the OP is upset that the prices have gone up:confused:
The knife you own went UP in value:thumbup:
But, he is upset because he can't afford a new one??
Most collectors are happy when their knives go up in value
Isn't your NON-cmc knife more valuable now?
Collector item/higher demand?===>"This is a pre-CNC Hinderer..not that CNC stuff!!!"

Is it the CNC part that upsets you?
Or the outsourcing of the CNC work (perhaps a foreign country):confused:
 
WOW! I'm wondering if I should even bring this back up..haha I finally listened to my voicemail last night and had a message from a friend letting me know about this thread. Well I'll explain a few things here, but it looks like everyone else pretty much covered it, and I THANK YOU all for that. But I would like to put some things on record.

As for the poster,you know nothing about me or my knives or my business so as Bruce alluded to that was pretty ballsy what you did...you are wrong and have no facts backing your claims...here is the truth..

My Gen III XM-18's are priced at $385.00 add $100.00 for carbon fiber
My custom ground XM-18's are $550.00 add $100.00 for carbon fiber
every once in a while I will make a special custom XM for a show and the higher price will reflect the extra work.
ANY other prices other than these shown is a AFTERMARKET price which I have no control over and I DONT GET any of this extra price.

When I went to the Gen III XM-18 the only thing I changed in the making process is have the blades ground by a company specializing in blade grinding...thats it...EVERYTHING else in the process is still done by me the way I always have.
The reason I did this was to be able to get more knives out to people who want them,and use them..period...my price stayed the same because nothing changed as far as material cost and time of making them..
Sure I rose the price of my custom ground blades to $550.00 to reflect the grinding and finishing that I dont do on the Gen III knives..but the price for those is in the same area or lower than alot of other makers...again, ANY other price you see is a non aurgument because that is someone elses price and not mine!

When I switched over to the Gen III I told everyone about the reason for the change so there obviously is anything "sneaky" going on there...I also gave the option to everyone who had a order in before the change that they could cancel their order. Since I dont and never have accepted deposits for orders this was as easy as telling me to cancel their order. No one is out anything...how can that be dishonest?

To the person who said that I am not making knives anymore! HAHA :rolleyes:LOL Dang, I wish people would do a little research before they open their mouth! I'm not even going to explain that I am in fact making knives LOL...like 7 days a week!!

Dudley, I didnt know you were so pissed about that 7th bali?? That deal was made between you and the dealer..I do still have the parts here minus the blade. I have to make the blade which I will do when I make that next batch of balis!..As I said before I never took any deposit money.

Again, I want to thank everyone for their kind remarks. I work very hard to make the very best knife and be able to offer it to the most people. I am SO HONORED that the XM18 has been accepted by so many and I am working overtime to be able to get as many in your hands as possible. I do not and will not compromise quality to get that done so thank you so much for being patient with me.

Very soon the XM-24 will be coming out so I'm looking forward to hearing what you all have to say about that one!

If you all have any questions I would be happy to answer them!!

Thanks again!

Rick Hinderer
 
Rhind64 said:
Dudley, I didnt know you were so pissed about that 7th bali?? That deal was made between you and the dealer..I do still have the parts here minus the blade. I have to make the blade which I will do when I make that next batch of balis!..As I said before I never took any deposit money.


Rick Hinderer
Click to expand...

Whatever, Rick.......I took you at your word......enough said. :(
 
You got it John! I cant wait! SHOT is always fun!

Dudley, I'm confused here.....did I contact you or the dealer that you made the deal with on this bali that I was in fact NOT going to make the knife? The knife is going to be made when I get to the next batch...I thought everyone knew that? Sure it has been awhile, but then again are you out any deposit money? No, because I dont take deposits..I still have the order down for this knife if you want to opt out of it no problem at all, again no one is out anything. You kinda blindsided me with this! Email me if you have any more concerns.

Rick
 
Rhind64 said:
......Sure it has been awhile, but then again are you out any deposit money? No, because I dont take deposits..I still have the order down for this knife if you want to opt out of it no problem at all, again no one is out anything.Rick
Click to expand...

Rick,

You brought up the deposit thing twice now. It matters slightly if you take a deposit or not.

This industry, as you know, has much of its' business conducted over a handshake, and a promise.....one of the few places where a man is constantly judged by his word and his work.

TIME, Rick....as you also know, time is the MOST valuable commodity that we have, you can't make more of it, and we don''t know how much we have left. We trade our time for money, that is called work.

If you make a promise, you should keep it, and do so with as much quickness as you can....because none of us knows how much time we have left.

A deposit is simply a physical manifestation of the promises we make, and some makers need the deposit in order to eat because they might not manage their businesses as effectively as others....I'll pay a deposit for an "unusual" request, and for no other reason.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
Rick,

You brought up the deposit thing twice now. It matters slightly if you take a deposit or not.

This industry, as you know, has much of its' business conducted over a handshake, and a promise.....one of the few places where a man is constantly judged by his word and his work.

TIME, Rick....as you also know, time is the MOST valuable commodity that we have, you can't make more of it, and we don''t know how much we have left. We trade our time for money, that is called work.

If you make a promise, you should keep it, and do so with as much quickness as you can....because none of us knows how much time we have left.

A deposit is simply a physical manifestation of the promises we make, and some makers need the deposit in order to eat because they might not manage their businesses as effectively as others....I'll pay a deposit for an "unusual" request, and for no other reason.
Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

So WELL SAID and so TRUE, Steven. :thumbup:
Should be recorded so as it can be looked back on from time to time.
 
Hello Steven, I agree, but my promise has not been broken,as I stated to Dudley I will make the knife,and yes as quickly as I can. I did not put a date on the completion.

This thread was started with someone questioning my honesty, Dudley also chimed in alluding to the same question of my honesty...what have I done to Dudley where he would think I was dishonest in a dealing? What have I done to the original poster that he would think I was dishonest? Obviously his facts were all wrong.

You see this is what is sometimes bad about the forums, and by that I mean all of them...someone can come on here and post anything at all that they want, with no retribution to themselves in what they write...Look at the views to this thread...more views than most ALL the other threads in this section....Myself and my business is on trial here, with ALL the viewers here as the jury....if someone makes a accusation of this magnatude,one needs to show proof that they can back up in court as Bruce said...for alot of us makers this is our livelyhood! not a hobby!

Dudley is dissapointed that he has not recieved a knife yet, I understand and accept that...but to say I am dishonest? if this is the case then dont come on here and say " you gave me your word,nuf said" and leave it at that...PROVE how I was dishonest...after all what is the "people of the jury thinking"

I think this thread should also be put into record as how the forums can hurt makers in the fact there is no accountability for what someone posts.

Thanks

Rick
 
.Look at the views to this thread...more views than most ALL the other threads in this section....Myself and my business is on trial here, with ALL the viewers here as the jury.
Click to expand...

This juror says " Not guilty of dishonesty"

however I must find you Guilty of making some of the nicest using knives on the planet :)
 
Rhind64 said:
Hello Steven, I agree, but my promise has not been broken,as I stated to Dudley I will make the knife,and yes as quickly as I can. I did not put a date on the completion.

Dudley is dissapointed that he has not recieved a knife yet, I understand and accept that...but to say I am dishonest? if this is the case then dont come on here and say " you gave me your word,nuf said" and leave it at that...PROVE how I was dishonest...after all what is the "people of the jury thinking"

I think this thread should also be put into record as how the forums can hurt makers in the fact there is no accountability for what someone posts.

Thanks

Rick
Click to expand...

Rick,

It is a forum, a place where everyone can speak....that people choose to post from a position of cowardice and anonymity can be a problem, but not all forums operate that way.

We know each other's faces.....at NO point in my posting on BladeForums have I personally been absolved of accountability, as I use my actual name in all posting.

This thread has shown that people OVERWHELMINGLY support you, and even I had things to say that were positive and supportive...so please, spare the drama....a fella posted some negatives, and the chorus shouted him down, and called for his head on a pike. Perhaps there was a strong attempt to damage your rep or business somewhere, but it didn't work out that way.

Once you posted attempting to minimize the value of time, in your words "I still have the order down for this knife if you want to opt out of it no problem at all, again no one is out anything., well I have a problem with that. Once you build me a knife, and are waiting for payment, time is of the essence, for both of us.

You may call this my hobby, but it is a HUGE part of my life, I have paid the rent money for knives in order to honor a prior commitment.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Rick, at no time did I say you were dishonest.....:confused:

I put you and a dealer together to make a run of balis with the 7th knife coming to me. You did in fact make 7 knives but the first one was labled as the prototype and the other 6 were labled as such......there was no number 7 completed.

Yes, I saw the picture of the parts when it was emailed to me several years ago, a joke as I remember it since they were thrown in a box with a bunch of other scrap 'stuff'.

I guess the whole idea of me involving myself in the project was to get a knife when you made them 4-5 years ago.....not whenever you eventually got around to it or made the next batch.

For the record, I'm no longer interested in that knife or any others that you will eventually have time to make and I'm sorry if you feel that I represented you as being dishonest because I never said that. I feel that when you made those knives years ago and that there would be 7, with number 7 coming to me, that is what I expected....not having you come back now after all of this time giving me the excuse that you never put a date on it so all is well and that you will still get around to it someday. :jerkit:

Have a good life and may your knifemaking continue to do well.
 
Hey Steven, I am very honored that so many support me and my business! I have worked VERY hard to earn that kind of support.

Again, I understand that Dudley is dissapointed, but I wasnt being dishonest which I think is what alot of people here reading his post would think he is alluding too.

I understand peoples hobby of knife collecting is a big part of their life, my position is that I make my living with knives. My bills are payed with making knives,my mortgage is payed with making knives, I eat because I make knives...
If someone came into your place of work and went up to your boss and told him that you were a dishonest person and just left it at that without explaining, of course you would have a problem with that because you may lose your job and thus lose your house...

Again, the question that has been brought up is Rick Hinderer honest?

I am honored that so many have set the record straight for me because they know me.

Am I guilty of taking a long time to complete a bali order. Yes, but the way my business is right now unfortunatly I cantmake knives as fast as some other makers or as fast as some customers would like. Is that being dishonest? No.

Thanks for reading!

Rick
 
ok, Dudley....that picture was just me being light hearted..sorry you took it the other way...

Umm..I dont remember you being "in the project" from the beginning??? It started out as me wanting to make some bali's and the dealer wanting to sell them..thats it...I made 6 knives and the dealer informed me that you asked for number 7 ...but I only made 6 blades...that is why you didnt get number 7...yet....

anyway, as for the honesty thing...you chimed in agreeing with the poster who questioned my honesty..that would be taken by people reading this that you as well questioned my honesty...sure I didnt get a knife to you in good time,but is that being dishonest?..

Rick
 
ok, Dudley....that picture was just me being light hearted..sorry you took it the other way...

Umm..I dont remember you being "in the project" from the beginning??? It started out as me wanting to make some bali's and the dealer wanting to sell them..thats it...I made 6 knives and the dealer informed me that you asked for number 7 ...but I only made 6 blades...that is why you didnt get number 7...yet....

anyway, as for the honesty thing...you chimed in agreeing with the poster who questioned my honesty..that would be taken by people reading this that you as well questioned my honesty...sure I didnt get a knife to you in good time,but is that being dishonest?..

Rick
 
Rick is and always has been an honest & ethical man, in my dealings with him. I WILL continue to stand by him, as well as support him by buying his knives.
 
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