James Bond's Walther PPK?

[SIFU1A]

Using the logic of "lighter and more powerful is better" then the Smith scandium frame Centennial in .357 Magnum should be a "better" pistol than the PPK or the Kahr. Only problem is that the thing probably wants to snap your hand off mid forearm every time you fire it.

i have a 642 'j' in .38 and have fired a buds scandium '357 'j' and i know one thing, the PM9 is infinitly easier to learn to shoot well, and a lot more pleasent to shoot vs the 642, i wont even go into the .357 'j' lol.

imho the 'j' is hard to learn to shoot well, esp with magnum or +p ammo.

neither one is something i ever have much inclination to plink with, on the other side of the coin the PM9 is easy to use and i have plinked with it a time/2.

maybe its just me, i have shot a lotta .45, .357, .44, 454 casull, .45 LC handloads, etc and i have never ever found any 9MM handgun, regardless of size, regardless of weight, to have anything near what i would call "intimidating" or "unpleasent" recoil, not with std velocity ammo, not with +p or +P+ ammo, imho 9MM i one of the easiest calibres to shoot well around, imho it is about like a std velocity .38 in a 'k' frame, not bad at all,

 

[Lycosa]

The 9mm is king.

 

[STAGE 2]

*i will promise you the kahr is more accurate than the PP series... now can ya put them both in a ransom rest and the PM9 is better? dont have a clue

But thats how we measure accuracy. Once again, the longer barrel, and fixed barrel is going to make for a more accurate pistol. You personally might not shoot it better, and thats fine. However that doesn't have any effect on the fact that the walther will be more accurate.

*i will also promise ya anyone who can do well with a .380 PPk can do the same with a PM9 i cant imagine anyone thinking. at least with std velocity ammo, the kahr PM9 has any kind of bad recoil, it just doesnt

Well, every review I've read online including the excerpt from american rifleman I posted above disagrees with you. It might not be hand brusing, but the recoil of the Kahr is much more harsh than the PPK.

FWIW poly frame pistols supposedly absorb some of the recoil unlike steel or alloy frames. and if your hand fits a PP series well it would fit a PM9 well too as the dimensions of the 2 in that regard are damned close

Polymer doesn't change the laws of physics. It may soak up more recoil than steel, but it that doesn't make up for the weight difference. A heaver object will not recoil as much as a lighter one. This simply doesn't change.

*imho the kahr is easier to shoot well its got a better trigger, as far as DA/SA vs DA only i will take the DA only anytime, anyplace, i have suffered with DA/SA pistols again since ~ '70 and have never liked them...

Which is why I brought up the preference issue. Someone who like DA/SA isn't going to like a DAO even though the trigger might be "better". That said, all things being equal, a lighter trigger is a better trigger and the walther has a much lighter trigger.

i dont think the bbl is much longer, if any, and i dont think the site radius, if it is any longer, is longer enough to make any significant diff, i am tempted to open up the safe and measure just for grins but at 330A i think i will pass lol, but if it is any longer we're talking .5" most i would think.

1/2 inch makes a big difference when shooting at longer ranges.

*well when does the break in end for the walther?

Never had a problem with mine save this recall thats going on.

like i said the PPk isnt a bad pistol but it was designed quite a while back FWIW, and as far as its being anything even close to something like the kahr, or glock 26, is in fact imho absurd, its just not, i dont care what you, the american rifle assoc, or the teamsters have to say, its not, and like i say i have put only the lord knows how many rounds downrange out of the PP series pistols, so i know a thing or 2 about them and how they handle and how they shoot

Then I guess your opinion isn't going to change and thats fine. But you didn't point to anything that newer pistols can do that the walther can't. Again you may have a preference, but thats not definitive.

have you ever even fired a kahr PM9?

Owned one for several years. Ended up trading it for a micro glock.

 

[SIFU1A]

well i suppose i am just gonna agree with you i dont think you can learn to handle a 9MM lol, better stick just stick with the .380.

oh and yes the walther PPk is the greatest combat handgun of all time.

whatever dude its just the same stuff over and over and......

i do find it interestiing you worry about long range accuracy with pocket pistols you must be something else with that PPk.

to close i generally base my conclusion on things by personal experience not what joe blow in some gun rag says, but hey, thats just me lol, YMMV and probably does too.

accuracy from a ransom rest from a pocket pistol also has little/no interest to me either, its kinda like putting radar in a rowboat, if the thing has a good trigger, good sites and i can hit well with it, now that matters, will it shoot 1" or 1.5 outta a ransom rest, not in the slightest. when i need it it will be in my hand not a rest, again, YMMV, and probably does.


and again, not that the PPk is bad, not at all, it just isnt remotely comparable to a PM9 imho, not in reliability, not in accuracy, not in power, i dont see anything it is except maybe they are pretty equal in ease of concealment, of course not many 75 yr old designs can compete with modern stuff, in fact other than a 1911 i cant think of one.

but hey its all good, i hope your PPk performs well for ya should ya ever need it, and i hope ya have your ransom rest with ya too lol!

 

[jdm61]

i have a 642 'j' in .38 and have fired a buds scandium '357 'j' and i know one thing, the PM9 is infinitly easier to learn to shoot well, and a lot more pleasent to shoot vs the 642, i wont even go into the .357 'j' lol.

imho the 'j' is hard to learn to shoot well, esp with magnum or +p ammo.

neither one is something i ever have much inclination to plink with, on the other side of the coin the PM9 is easy to use and i have plinked with it a time/2.

maybe its just me, i have shot a lotta .45, .357, .44, 454 casull, .45 LC handloads, etc and i have never ever found any 9MM handgun, regardless of size, regardless of weight, to have anything near what i would call "intimidating" or "unpleasent" recoil, not with std velocity ammo, not with +p or +P+ ammo, imho 9MM i one of the easiest calibres to shoot well around, imho it is about like a std velocity .38 in a 'k' frame, not bad at all,

I was being facetious The Centennial is a very nice gun to shoot with .38 loads because the hammerless design lets you ride your hand up a bit whihc, IMO allows the recoil to come straight back. Now in .357, I'm not so sure that it will matter.

 

[Lycosa]

8 pages. That darn little PPK.

 

[STAGE 2]

to close i generally base my conclusion on things by personal experience not what joe blow in some gun rag says

As do I.

accuracy from a ransom rest from a pocket pistol also has little/no interest to me either, its kinda like putting radar in a rowboat, if the thing has a good trigger, good sites and i can hit well with it, now that matters, will it shoot 1" or 1.5 outta a ransom rest, not in the slightest. when i need it it will be in my hand not a rest, again, YMMV, and probably does.

Accuracy matter because even 9mm is an anemic round. Most handgun rounds are. Because of this I need to be able to put the rounds where they are going to do the most good, COM. Shoulders, arms and legs aren't going to stop a determined threat.

comparable to a PM9 imho, not in reliability, not in accuracy, not in power

Sorry dude, but a gun that is more mechanically accurate is going to be more practically accurate in the hands of an accomplished shooter. There just is no way getting around this.

You can put someone who cant drive a stick in a ferarri and have them race against a honda civic. Thats doesn't mean the honda is a faster car.

 

[jdm61]

One thing that nobody has mentioned. Kahr's are as ugly as homemade sin.

 

[TR Graham]

One thing that nobody has mentioned. Kahr's are as ugly as homemade sin.

True....and so are the Glocks. Few "modern" guns have the thoroughbred lines of a PPK. Like a ME109 fighter, it has a certain elegance mixed with menace...

TR Graham
The Glocksmith

 

[Gargs]

I guess we'd say the PPK has "movie star good looks." It is a beautiful gun and the German PPKs are just nice to hold (I'm prejudiced against the S&W version). McCall (the good-old Equalizer) toted a silver one around NYC for the run of the show.

 

[ADD]

1) Zen is never wrong, on any subject, ever.

2) Sharpening your tongue with a file always adds really extra emphasis when applying rule #1.

 

[marcangel]

I'll take this over a PPK anyday. And it's not even ugly like the Block or the Car.

 

[Lycosa]

The Unparalleled ME-109.
Another German Goodie.

 

[marcangel]

The Unparalleled ME-109.
Another German Goodie.

I believe the Rohrbaugh R-9 is a P51 if the PPK is an ME-109.

 

[Bronco]

The Ransom Rest is a very useful tool when used properly. Rather, I should say that the Ransom Rest is a very useful tool when the information derived from it is interpreted properly. Certainly, it is a great device for measuring the inherent mechanical accuracy of a pistol. But it would be a grave mistake to assume that this demonstrated mechanical accuracy will necessarily translate into better accuracy and tighter groups when a person takes over the shooting duties. The Ransom Rest is simply incapable of evaluating certain aspects of a pistol's design and execution that are critical to establishing its practical accuracy in the hands of a human shooter. So while it's certainly a plus if one pistol groups better on the Ransom Rest than a competitor's offering, this is still no guarantee that the pistol, in fact, shoots more accurately in any real world sense.

 

[TR Graham]

I believe the Rohrbaugh R-9 is a P51 if the PPK is an ME-109.

Like those Rohrbaughs, huh? Handled them, but have never shot one.

What's the recoil like?

TR Graham
The Glocksmith

 

[BlackHills]

And it's not even ugly like the Block or the Car.

As the old saying goes, "Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder". While I don't find the Glock or the Kahr particularly attractive I'd have to say I find the Rohrbaugh the least visually appealing of the three.

 

[marcangel]

The recoil isn't too bad. They use a double spring and you replace the outer spring every 200 rounds. For $5, it's no biggie if you're willing to shell out $1200 for a pocket pistol. Although the "aesthetics" of the PPK may appeal to some, those nifty "purty edges" are really great for snagging on clothing, holsters, etc. Also let's not forget the PPK is a terrific "thumb web biter", along with it's cousin the HK4. I know, I own all of the above. Personally, I'd take the HK4 over the PPK aesthetically, and it's certainly lighter and has a much smoother trigger. Better yet is the Sig P230, which is purty, light, accurate, reliable, but it's still a .380...

If you want to have James Bond fantasies, go ahead. I believe I bought the Walther in my mid 20's when it was really cool and had similar post-pubescent notions running around in my head.

I'm not saying that PPK, Glock, Kahr or HK4 will not get the job done, since they certainly will. The Rohrbaugh is designed explicitly for self-defense. It's most important features are carryability (it's smaller than the PPK and half the weight), concealability (same points), reliability (DAO, single stack) and power 9MM vs. .380.

If you want a defense pistol, it is VERY difficult to beat. If I recall the designers axiom, "Form follows function" certainly would be most applicable if your life or loved ones lives are on the line.

**sighs, and gets off of soapbox**

 

[jdm61]

If form follows function, then that little Rorshach pistol must have been originally designed as a a bad pseudo-Bauhaus cell phone

 

[STAGE 2]

But it would be a grave mistake to assume that this demonstrated mechanical accuracy will necessarily translate into better accuracy and tighter groups when a person takes over the shooting duties.

Thats true. Thats why some people shoot some pistols better than others even though one might be more accurate. Yet when the statement is made that X pistol is more accurate than Y pistol there really isn't any other way to determine this than to remove the human factor and use a rest.