James Keating's Fighting Axe & Tomahawk #1 Review

FSCJedi

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Oct 19, 2002
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Alright, I'm going to try to do this as objectively as I can. I recently purchased Jim's first tomahawk training dvd and have had a chance to review it a couple times. I'll do a "by chapter" review and try to stick to the highlights:

The Review

First off, he has an "Intro" section where he just talks about the purpose of the video. Short and sweet, then he moves on into...

...the "Weapons" section. In this section he has layed out several weapons that could be used with the techniques he teaches. These weapons include several from Cold Steel (the Bad Axe, Rifleman tomahawk, and Special Forces Shovel) and Vietnam Tomahawk, the Glock entrenching tool, some medieval type handaxes, and a spike tomahawk that was once (might still be) offered for purchase made by someone associated with his school. However, he only uses the Rifleman, Vietnam tomahawk, medieval handaxe, and Bad Axe for his demonstrations.

Next up is the "Basic Movement" section. In this he shows 6 planes of motion/striking with the tomahawk. He doesn't, however, show the vertical (from above and below) striking plane, prefering instead to stick with the diagonal and horizontal planes. Also in this section is a circular "flourishing" drill he shows that teaches switching hands while the hawk is in motion and helps to get the feel of what motion the hawk would use when attempting to trap the enemy. He also shows a two-handed "sliding" exercise that is also used for switching hands/directions when holding an axe with two hands. Jim gets into some body mechanics as far as moving your legs/feet when striking and using your body to put more force into the blow, but mostly relies more on the body's "instinctual" movement. All of these can be done by one's self.

The 4th section is the "Intermediate Drills" section and shows practicing with the Philipino drill pallasut and it's concepts. For those who don't know what that is (like I did before watching this), pallasut is a passing exercise that allows you to catch a strike, move it out of the way, and make your own strike which is in turn blocked, allowing a counter which you block, etc..., all with either the head or butt of the weapon. It seems like it would be a very good drill to use, but you (in my opinion) have to have a practice partner to use to really get any benefit. Unfortunately, most of the rest of the video continues in this manner.

This section moves very easily into the next section which is the "Combat Sets" section. I did get a lot of out of this section as Jim shows how the pallasut drill can be used for strikes, trapping, disarming, and various joint-type locks. Some of the disarms can even be used as take-downs. I REALLY liked the take-down he showed where he blocks a strike with the hawk, passes the arm with his free hand, strikes the leg with the hawk, then strikes the side of the head with his free hand, turning the opponent away from the leg which was just struck and literally spinning the enemy to his knees with you in control of his head, finishing him off with a downward strike to the head or clavical/shoulder area with the hawk. Really really cool and very fast to execute! I also liked the move where he uses the head of the hawk to trap the wrist, then brings his own arm and the butt of the hawk to trap the enemy's whole arm in a type of arm bar, much like a police officer would use a PR-24.

Jim did do one move that I didn't like where he blocks a strike with the hawk, then spins himself underneath the trapped arm to take down the enemy by rolling him forward. This, in my opinion, would take to long to execute and leaves you vunerable to counter attack to easily. There's also one Jim does where he steps into the body of the enemy and takes him down in a Judo-type hip toss. This one, also, looks to me like it would leave you open to counter attack (maybe an arm bar), but would quicker to execute than the first one.

The next section of this training dvd is the "Intermediate Exercise" section. Though it is bulleted at the beginning of the section, Jim only briefly touches on the subject of concealed carry of the tomahawk and its deployment. He does a neat exercise called "passing" where he defends from two weapon strikes (from the same direction) by block/passing them from one side of the body to the other. He also shows some disarms where the enemy is using an axe and you are empty handed, which is pretty useful against any smallish sized hafted weapon.

The last section of the dvd is his throwing section. I found this section to be very lacking in instructional material. Mostly it was Jim and one of his students just throwing the Bad Axe and Rifleman (which threw very well, mind you) and a strange, almost fantasy-type axe. All throwing was done with a two handed grip, much like competition double-bitted axe throwers. While this was remarkably effective, to me it wouldn't have as much of a place in combat as the "traditional" single-handed throw. The target was also a wide tree with out any discernible "bullseye". I feel that this section could have been improved dramatically by a good throwing walk through with a few words on stance, grip, release angle, axe rotation, etc...

Final Thoughts

For it's price, I am happy with the purchase of this training dvd. The instructional material, while maybe faster paced than some might be able to learn from, was usually performed multiple times and often from different angles, which helped. I found myself watching the Intermediate Drills and Combat Sets sections multiple times just for the trapping/passing and joint locks/disarms/arm bars as they were where I got the most "new" material from. Those sections in themselves make it a worthy purchase in my mind.

If I were to say anything instructional-wise needed improving, I'd say it would be that a step-by-step method (read: start, stop, explain, next move, stop, explain...) of showing moves should be used, and maybe expand a little more on the basics (a slash versus a hack/chop versus a rake). While in conversation with Jim, he did state he deliberately didn't talk much about "hitting" with the axe because that should be obvious. While this is true, I feel that maybe a section on these attack types could have been useful between the Basic Movement and Intermediate Drills sections.

All in all, an ok buy to compliment book learning. This was the first tomahawk instruction DVD I purchased. Check it out. As I am still learning (as any good student of a martial art should be), I'm not disappointed and I'm sure anybody else who feels like they could learn something more won't be either. Definitely a nice inexpensive addition to your fighting tomahawk library.

3 :thumbup: out of 5
 
I love that shovel. I have seen some grainy photos of spetznaz guys flying through the air while throwing their shovels at a target.
 
The video is as described by fscjedi, so no need to repeat that part.I was underwhelmed with the video. No disrespect to Mr. Keating, but I believe that he fundamentally misunderstands the use of the hand axe as a weapon for the following reasons;
First; Throughout the video Mr. Keating uses the tomahawk as a control weapon first and as an offensive weapon secondarily. The axe generally, and the tomahawk specifically, is an offensive weapon primarily. It certainly can be used as such, and any extra knowledge is useful, but that is not its primary role. Due to its balance, it is not suited to defense. I say this because axes are very slow to stop or change direction in mid-swing. The best way to use an axe is in continuous circular arcs. If you miss your target, in most instances it is faster to go around again again than to stop, pull back, and swing again. With axes speed is your friend.
Second; Axes as weapons are transitional weapons, halfway between pure bladed weapons like knives or short swords, and mass weapons like maces or clubs. An axe does part of its damage from the edge, like a bladed weapon, but due to the relative obtuseness of the edge and the end-heavy balance, it also depends on the mass of the weapon to do damage.
Third;The shape of the blade will help to determine the effectiveness or non-effectiveness of certain strikes. Choking all the way up on the handle, using the top of the axe as an impact weapon, or punching or slicing with the axe in this way was not covered.
Fourth; Because Mr. Keating uses the axe as a control weapon, rather than as an axe, he is constantly too close to his target. If you can strike your target while staying out of your targets' effective striking range, that's where you want to be. Ask boxers and wrestlers about this.Mr. Keating is a very tall individual, with long arms and legs, however he constantly stays close to his opponent and makes no attempt to stay out of his opponent's range.
Fifth; It is not explained in the video that the primary use of the axe is to strike the target with the edge of the blade. Blocks,Trap blocks, and the like are what happens when you miss. It's good to be prepared, but one should train to strike correctly first, then work on what ifs.
Sixth; The "projectile axes" section was of no value at all as it explained nothing.
To sum up, All of the video's flaws are due to a fundamental lack of understanding of the proper use of axes as weapons.
CaptInsano-e mail me your address and I will forward the DVD to you.
FSCJedi- thank you for passing around the DVD
 
I agree with your statements about actually attacking with the 'hawk. As I'm sure you and everyone else can gather from my review, it was the trapping stuff that I got the most out of. This is because I've got Dwight's book which is chock-full of helpful attacking maneuvers. It was nice (for me) to see a little more of the 'hawk's capabilities, but something I definitely think should have been on a more "intermediate" DVD instead of a beginner's DVD.
 
My review will be forthcoming, guys... just need to type it all up here...
I will try to do that tomorrow... just a 'heads-up'...
 
OK, first let me say that I PURPOSELY did not read the other reviews before coming here to post my review... I took notes during the DVD, and my wife watched it with me (she likes tomahawks, and has thrown them numerous times, including with a trainer we both worked with)... She had 2 comments after viwing the DVD, I will include them at the very end of my review...

My background involves formal Tai Kwon Do (Korean Karate), 'Street Fighting' (much of it learned 'the hard way' during my 'prodigal' years), Wrestling, a small amount of Boxing, and instruction from several other DVD's and books on the subject of tomahawk fighting/throwing, plus some 'one-on one' training on tomahawks in general, including throwing (along with my wife)... keep this in mind as you read my review...

Also... I am a very 'detail-oriented' individual... I tend to be rather blunt and direct, and I am often viewed as a 'fault-finder' by some personality types... In reality, I am a 'problem solver'... I view things as 'black and white', mostly ignoring 'gray areas'... keep this in mind also as you read my review... Some of my comments might be taken personal, but I assure you they are not meant as such...

FSCJedi,
No offense here, just trying to make a correction...
You referred to a weapon James A. Keating used in the DVD as "the American Tomahawk Company's Vietnam Tactical tomahawk" and later as a "V-Tac"... please allow me to say that the weapon was a 'Cold Steel Vietnam Tomahawk', which has a wooden handle, the 'VTAC' has a composite-type handle... I have both, they are different. Also, in the throwing section at the end of the DVD, the only throwers were James and one other male...

By the way, I noticed when watching this throwing part of the DVD that we could not see the weapons impacting when James threw, only when the other male threw.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DVD viewed: Saturday December 29, 2008 8:00 PM (Pacific Time)
All comments below were written in note form as the DVD progressed, and that has been the determining factor in the order they are given here as well.

REVIEW...

During the introduction portion of the DVD, the 'assailant' is not really fighting back, he is being too passive, and not offensive.

The DVD seemed to me to be 'low-budget'... this is not a condemnation, just my obsevation and opinion.

The instructor's (James A. Keating) movements are too 'telegraphed' throughout the DVD, this made his movements too easy to predict.

'Circling' is a waste of time, energy and movement... it might be necessary with a heavy weapon like an axe, and is the reason I would not use an axe in a fight if I had another option. 'Circling' is a method that also 'telegraphs' your moves too much, and it leaves an opening, as well... There are moves similar to this in Karate, and they are primarily used for blocking 'round house' type punches and kicks... unless you are using a heavy weapon (which I do not prefer), I would not advise 'circling' moves...

I do not want to be percieved as passing judgement on James, but I felt that in comparison to the instructors I have worked with, he did not seem very professional.

The DVD showed a two-handed 'circling' method, also... this was even worse than the one-handed version shown earlier... If one looks closely at James as he shows this method, it leaves the person even more open to attack from their opponent than the one-handed 'circling' method does. As you do a two-handed 'circle', you are totally vulnerable to attack on the opposite side of your body from where the tomahawk or axe is, since both hands are occupied, and the weapon is in the same 'quadrant' as both arms when viewed from the opponent's direction... 'Circling' in general would be unwise to use if the assailant had a 'jabbing' or 'stabbing' type of weapon, like a spear, cane or walking stick (other weapons would also fit here).

James says in the DVD that small 'woodpecker' moves are not good to use, and that longer sweeping strokes are better... this simply is not correct, especially when using a tomahawk. In every other tomahawk book or DVD I have read or viewed (and in the 'in-person' training my wife and I were involved in), the tomahawk EXCELLS when used in 'woodpecker' fashion. Unlike Karate and Boxing, where the dominant hand is to the rear, it can be extremely effective to have the dominant hand in front while you make 'woodpecker' chops against your opponent... this method is favored and shown by guys like Larry Thompson from 'Cold Steel'... and it increases your 'reach' by 2-3 feet over a 'dominant hand to the rear' stance. Comparing 'woodpecker' moves to long sweeping strokes is similar to comparing 'rabbit punches' or 'jabs' to 'roundhouse punches'... the latter of which any Boxer or Karate student can tell you is easier to predict and defend against. Another couple of comments on stance are in order here... Stance has a lot to do with the effectiveness of one in tomahawk and axe fighting... a 'horse' stance (which James seems to use a lot), where both feet are equidistant to the assailant, can be useful for dodging strikes by moving quickly to the sides. However, I personally would prefer a stance where the strong foot is to the front or rear, as this gives one the ability to more rapidly move forward and backwards, also. For fighting in general, and edged weapon fighting in particular, I would prefer this method.

James says one should learn to move from one's instincts... ask any serious student of the martial arts... this is wrong. This is why we TRAIN!!!

James showed a method where you are supposed to use the flat side of the blade to 'slap' your opponent, and stated that this knocks them out... he also showed what he terms 'dinging the wrist' of your opponent with the end of the handle opposite the head... both of these methods look sort of cool, but in a real fight, they would be practically useless... especially the latter of the two!!!

None of the DVD shows any of the moves in full-speed... if I were going to attend a class on tomahawk or axe fighting, I would want there to be rubber weapons that could be used in sparring at full-speed. You would never really know if the methods were good if you could not use them full-speed in a sparring atmosphere.

In general, the methodology shown in the DVD is too compicated to get anything useful by watching. You would really need to 'do' the moves in a 'live' class. James' partners in the DVD are going along too easily and 'neatly' with his moves, and very often have a free hand (often with a weapon in it) that is in a perfect position to strike him back... you can see a lot of 'openings' for his assailants, but they never take advantage of these opportunities... this makes James look good, and makes the assailants look like passive wimps.

The throwing portion of the DVD is fun, but (as has been said by previous review), is basically useless. You can see both James and the other male 'wrist flip' the tomahawks and axes as they throw them, and this is poor technique, especially with a tomahawk. You are supposed to let the tomahawk 'slide' out of your hand smoothly. Two-handed throwing is OK, especially if the weapon is a bit heavy or long... my wife and I learned this in one of the classes we attended...

OK, a few closing comments... these may be taken wrong, but it was how I felt while watching the DVD... these may come across very wrong, but here they are...

COMTECH's logo on the back wall gives a bad impression... I will let you judge this one for yourself, but it looks similar to another logo I am not too fond of.

James and his friends all look just a bit like they are from some sort of 'brotherhood'... this, combined with the previous comment, gives the DVD a look I do not care for.

Overall, I was not very impressed with the DVD... I would pass on wanting it for my collection...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My wife had 2 comments...

1) The movements look too complicated, like complex dance steps.

2) I don't think the methods would work unless your opponent was in a perfect position, and reacted predictably to your assault.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Glock17JHP.
 
FSCJedi,
No offense here, just trying to make a correction...
You referred to a weapon James A. Keating used in the DVD as "the American Tomahawk Company's Vietnam Tactical tomahawk" and later as a "V-Tac"... please allow me to say that the weapon was a 'Cold Steel Vietnam Tomahawk', which has a wooden handle, the 'VTAC' has a composite-type handle... I have both, they are different.
Edited. Good catch! I did this in one other post, too, and had it pointed out to me. :thumbup:

Unlike Karate and Boxing, where the dominant hand is to the rear, it can be extremely effective to have the dominant hand in front while you make 'woodpecker' chops against your opponent... this method is favored and shown by guys like Larry Thompson from 'Cold Steel'... and it increases your 'reach' by 2-3 feet over a 'dominant hand to the rear' stance.
Do you mean Lynn Thompson? :confused:

Thanks for the review! :thumbup: :cool:
 
Also... I am a very 'detail-oriented' individual... I tend to be rather blunt and direct, and I am often viewed as a 'fault-finder' by some personality types... In reality, I am a 'problem solver'... I view things as 'black and white', mostly ignoring 'gray areas'... keep this in mind also as you read my review... Some of my comments might be taken personal, but I assure you they are not meant as such...

Glock17JHP: Comment taken! Clear.

Who were the instructors that taught you tomahawk? Just curious, no agenda here. What 'neck of the woods' are they in? Any in Virginia.

James and his friends all look just a bit like they are from some sort of 'brotherhood'...

There will always be 'brotherhood'. It helps us with support. Some like to call them 'Friends'.


Best
Dwight
 
Dwight! Great to see you've stopped by these parts for a visit! We've (the ones of us that have been here long enough to know you and your contributions) have missed you.
 
Damn! Power surge! Let me do this again.

Thanks FSC. I'm afraid my knowledge with this video is based on my friend Pete Kautz teaching a class on it when I had the school open in Yorktown years ago. I can't really comment on the video other than to say Pete's class was really good. I broke my promise to my wife by posting here but I just wanted to see who Glock trained with to get his information on the tomahawk. Glad to see that someone else beside me likes Lynn Thompson work. He is one of the few owners/distributors that actually take the time to train.

Well, let me run before I get caught.

Best
Dwight
 
Dwight,

Any training on the TOMAHAWK has been somewhat informal, from DVD's, books, etc...

I gleaned what I could from Peter LaGana's work, which required a lot of searching on my part. From there I gathered a lot of older materials from online (some was REAL old)... so the 'education' early on was older materials that was/is already out there if one searches for it online. After that, I learned from some military sources as relates to the VTAC (the VTAC is really THE tomahawk, to me... because I personally like to think of the tomahawk as a 'weapon' first... 'thrower' second, and 'tool' last. That is not a condemnation/judgement on those who do not share my view, it is only my view). After that, I got information from Lynn Thompson from 2 DVD's 'Cold Steel' has put out. Then I got 'hands-on' training from a gentleman who teaches tomahawk throwing/history at Oak Glen here in California... my wife and I both attended his training, which also involved a competition between maybe 30-40 of us who went through his training first. I do not recall his name. By the way... the winner of the throwing session, which was done in stages with eliminations, received an 8 pound apple pie (Oak Glen is in the mountains to the north east of the 'Inland Empire' here, and is known for their apples, cider, Civil War re-enactments, etc.). All of the rest I have learned here on this forum, and from doing my own throwing with family to find what works/doesn't work for me. I have learned that there is tomahawk throwing and tomahawk fighting... and I have learned that it takes a different mindset and different equipment for both. I have learned that different people need different equipment, sometimes even for the same task. I am still learning, and would never try to pretend otherwise... a truly intelligent person always can learn more than they already know.

You said: "There will always be 'brotherhood'. It helps us with support. Some like to call them 'Friends'." Are you willing to elaborate on this?

As my profile states, my knowledge is primarily in firearms 'wound ballistics'... and I have a fair mount of martial arts/street fighting experience, as well. Tomahawks are a fairly new interest on my part, and I appreciate THIS forum and it's participants for helping me learn more about them.

Does this help answer your question?

-Ron.
 
I received the DVD. I just went through and watched it (at work PC... ;)) but will spend more time with it at home tomorrow and Monday evening.

I read Glock's review after I watched it. Being in the office, I was unable to actually practice some of the movements to see if they felt "right." I'll reserve extended comments until I can give it my undivided attention.

It was a little difficult to watch with the VHS cam quality. Maybe I'm too nitpicky as a tv broadcast engineer but the blur and artifacting was more than a little distracting.

The only formal handheld (non-firearms) training I have had was with the sai and tonfa back when I practiced Isshinryu. The open flow and exposure of the Keating method, along with the stance, did seem a little unnatural to me but, again, my training was with non-edged weapons.

I'm looking forward to spending more time tomorrow. Thanks for the opportunity, FSC!
 
Hey Glock: Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply. Looks like your background is pretty much the same as all of us. " Still out there looking for answers" if you will.
You said: "There will always be 'brotherhood'. It helps us with support. Some like to call them 'Friends'." Are you willing to elaborate on this? The fact that you and I are having this conversation attest to the validity of this. I think for cultural, regional, and common interest people tend to group together, swap ideas and generally become good friends beating each other up and the like...that's what I meant. You know some day, we just might find someone out there that really has a 'handle' on this tomahawk stuff.
Thanks
Dwight
 
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