James Keating's Fighting Axe & Tomahawk #1 Review

Dwight...
I meant more when I used the term 'brotherhood'...
I didn't want to go further with the comment...
I was hoping others would pick up on what I meant...
 
Hmmm…

I’m not sure what I can add to what has already been said.

First off, a big “thanks” to FSC-Jedi for doing this passaround.

My background in any weapons training - twenty years ago while an Isshinryu student: tonfa, sai and bo. Many of the movements with tonfa and sai translate well to a hawk. I am hungry for more data!

The DVD.

Presenter: (4/5) He has good “presence” for instruction. I think in a live class, I would enjoy his instruction VERY much. He is certainly talented and has a lot to pass on to a student.

Instruction: (3/5) This is *very* subjective. I will only post this number as a very personal statement – how it worked for me. Actually, 3/5 might be a little kind as it relates directly to me. 2/5 would be more accurate concerning what I could take from this video. Some of the movements? High to low diagonally. Low to high. Agree. Those movements feel natural, make sense and are similar to how I’ve been trained.

Passing the hawk back and forth – hand to hand? Hmmm… no. Not for me.

Some of the more technical entrapments didn’t translate well to a non-illustrated (drawing), single point of view camera. The throwing at the end was less than useless fluff. No instructive value… horribly shot.

Technical quality of video/material: (1/5) The technical characteristics made the video honestly difficult to watch. I&#8217;m an engineer for a six television station regional operating center &#8211; seriously, I&#8217;m *not* holding the production to that kind of standard though, for the price of the dvd, maybe one should. Unfortunately, the production quality wasn&#8217;t even &#8220;home-amateur&#8221; quality. It appeared to have been shot with a single camera (single POV) with VHS as the media format. Consumer digital cameras and OS included non-linear editing systems are so inexpensive today (<$1k), that there really is no excuse for a dvd presentation with so much video noise and audio hiss that it makes viewing a challenge.

I&#8217;m glad to have had the opportunity to view this dvd. There is so little material in circulation to train in the use of a &#8216;hawk, that *any* material is valuable. This particular DVD seemed to have a bit of an identity crisis regarding the goal and target audience. The technical quality really was so poor that I had to stop and restart the presentation several times due to a headache.
 
My son and wife watched it with me when I viewed it, and we all agreed the quality was lacking. In fact, my son (who does cameras and sound at our church, and is majoring in college in Computer Graphic Design) was only able to watch it for maybe 15-20 minutes before it drove him away.

FSCJedi, do not take this personal against you... it DEFINITELY is not meant as such!!! Like Paddling_man, I also really appreciated the opportunity to watch it and write a review...

-Ron.
 
the production quality is very lacking on this one but it was filmed in the very early 90's before all the hi-tech stuff was available. i think fsc-jedi said volume 2 is a ton better.
 
Have any of the reviewers had any training by Mr. Keating?
 
I think most (all?) of the reviewers indicated their experience/training, if any, in the review. None of which apparently included firsthand training with Mr. Keating.

Would first hand training have made the the material in the dvd more comprehensible or changed the content of the reviews? Without a doubt. In this case, the reviews were only about the material as presented on the dvd.

I see from some of your other posts that you are a personal friend of and have trained with Keating - at least that is my impression. Was there something you wished to add about the dvd or the material contained within that, at least within the scope of a thread dedicated to amateur reviews of a video, might aid in making clear the training James was trying to impart to the viewer?
 
i disagree with the comment that a tomahawk is only an offensive weapon, and lacks superlative defensive attributes.

this is an attitude fostered mostly by the ill-advised and far-too-common hatchet-style manipulation of hawks, i reckon.


the hawk shines as some here have noted, inverted, or in my favored method: holding a tomahawk (correctly, in my opinion, as a hawk maker) where the butt-end third meets the middle third of the handle, with the center-of-mass on a properly-balanced hawk being about in the middle of the last third of the handle, near the head.

if those factors are present in a hawk, a good tool and weapon are made much better.


the only thing we could do to improve such a hawk was to make it lighter and stronger in a few ways, ...with the same physics otherwise, ...and put a better cross-section on the handle (see our Gen 1 Mk 2 handle, with its flat hatchet-side face) so that you can make large corrections in your target acquisition, and also have better delivery when throwing the hawk, as some of our investors have found.

lastly,

if you don't think your tomahawk is a good defensive weapon, it sounds like the one you have experience with has physical characteristics which are probably more like an axe or a hatchet - the Cold Steel Rifleman's Hawk comes to mind - it is a lovely tool, with a massive strike, but it is hardly a hawk, left unmodified - it is too huge and ungainly - it makes a dang good battle axe though - a Cold Steel Trail Hawk would be what i would consider a "pure" hawk, because of its low mass and quickness.


a hawk is fast, or it is not a hawk at all IMHO.


good thread, brethren.

vec
 
Just to keep them all in one place, here's NO F-Bdy Bs' review of the DVD from another thread.
NO F-Bdy Bs said:
First, id like to thank Jedi again for doing this for us. I know everyone really appreciates it, and as I said before, it really speaks for the good folks on here and how an item can be passed around in good faith.
Thanks again Bro, we all appreciate you:thumbup::thumbup::)



Ok, The DVD.
The main instructor is straight from 80s porn, and has the moustache to prove it. Also, the all black 5.11 pants tucked INTO white socks, with tennis shoes was priceless. I think it would have been a smart move to incoperate some "byoww chica bow wow" background music.
--Instructor: "I seem to have chopped my pants off with my tomahawk"
--Female assistant:"Thats nooo problem"

Anyhow,The video starts off showing very basic movements that will be used later in the film as technique progresses. I really like how he stressed how a Hawk is used on 2 different planes as opposed to a knife, and the advantages this possesses.
I really didnt like the idea of the Vietnam style hawk. Seems like there is a lot of potential for cutting yourself open with the rear spike. Id pick a trail hawk, or norse style. If you did contact yourself, you would get a bruise, not a huge gash.

As for the movements, they seemed very effective to me. Basic, and quite lethal. Seems like a lot of them could be mastered in a short time with some devoted practice.
I really liked the section he did on how to defend against a Hawk. Lord knows you would be up shit creek if someone was to seperate you from your Hawk.

Lastly, I wish they would have spent more time showing some throwing techniques.
I really never have liked the idea of throwing my only weapon at the enemy, but nontheless, id like to know how.
Overall, its an entertaining video, and with as low profile as our sport is, its nice to see someone take the time to put some instructions together.

Thanks again FSC!!!
Click to expand...
And you're welcome! :D
 
Okay so I am VEEEEERRRRRYYYYYY late with this review. I have read and re-read the other reviews. I am not sure what more I can add but here it goes.

First I think it important to get an accurate view of the reviewer to understand the review itself. Some of you have declaired your training and background so I shall very breifly do the same. I have studied Hung Gar, Kenpo, boxing/kick boxing, and kali.

Video Quality: Obviously the least of my concern. Many of us have practiced and trained in MA whenever and whereever possible. VHS tapes and bad recordings are just part of the game, especially if you've trained in the last 10 years. So it is viewable and not a big deal for me.

Safety First: The suggestion of using a training hawk is invaluable. So many people might jump into this thinking they can do anything and expect from rather than respect the weapon. For that reason credit to Mr. Keating is given.

The weapon: Hawks can come in different sizes, weight, styles, and lengths. Personally I'm with Paddling man in that I would probably start with a training hawk, then a poll, and then perhaps a spike. That's just me. I think a poll could be quicker with some things although you'd exchange reach and an edge and would change the dynamic of trapping. Not saying it would be better, I just wouldn't mind learning a poll first as many carry a poll out camping or what not instead of a spike.

Content: Mr. Keating's instructions for the basic movements as a foundation for later techniques are pretty good for a beginning reference point. Showing how the hawk as a weapon differs from the edged weapon people are more familiar with (the knife) is a good start. I think he condensed this section for time constraints but I would have liked a little more. Now I think more attention to detail is going to lack because it appears that the tape is meant for beginning weapons training with tomahawks but with an implication of previous MA training for the viewers. IMHO stances and the basic movements are the most important in the beginning and should be packaged and reviewed as a complete tape on it's own for people without any MA or weapons training experience. Even with MA training it is still good to have a clear picture of where the instructor is coming from. The basic movements work for me expecially given the size of the hawks used and the fact that there were only about 6. However, again the torque and balance needed to achieve success for the later techniques comes with experience, knowing foot maneuvers, balance, and stances. I can't see someone without any kind of training just jump into this successfully and be able to learn and do the advanced techniques, especially without practicing with an experienced partner. I bet someone has already put an eye trying. Also, as I watched the later techniques I felt it important to go back and revisit the earlier "basics" to find what really works for me, my orientation, center of gravity, my size, and my reach. I had to recalculate quickly to advance on. The circular motions allowed me to feel the weight of the hawk a little more but I would probably choose less circular motions and more shorter strikes for beginners like myself. The point to get in and get out without hurting myself.

Techniques and Trapping (Advanced/Intermediate): The strikes and transitions into different stances while striking or trapping were done fairly well for what was demonstrated. Clearly Mr. Keatings form and familiarity with using a hawk is visible and he does provide a little info on why he's doing what he's doing but it was a little informal and relaxed than what I am use to seeing. Again, I feel that he should explain his movements just a little further in relation to the weapon being used and the torque and foot work needed to achieve optimal reach and power, for blocks and strikes. The trapping became a little hairy in the advanced sections, although I did really enjoy this section. I suspect that this is due to my limited experience with using a hawk as a weapon (Different than a stick or knife). The basic movements for the trapping and hooking with the spike I found useful but of course some of the full combinations for disarming and trapping invovled an increased number of steps and positioning, some of which requiring flawless execution to get right and the perfect set up as well. Without flawless execution there is a risk of some injury to the user (not fond of injuring myself while attempting to defend myself:o). Even if you practice often you wouldn't be able to have flawless execution all the way through every time because of physics, multiple attackers, variations in your strikes/blocks/stances, variations in set up, variations in the build of attackers, experiential knowledge of attackers, reflex, etc. However, as anyone who has practiced MA can tell you using an entire technique all the way through is not the goal in a physical confrontation. The goal is to survive weather by fleeing or fighting. I have backed down from fights that I know I could easily have won (assuming no guns or knives were present) because I didn't want other people or people I'm with to get hurt. Many people carry something. For me if confrontation is unavoidable then the goal to survive will be met by attempting to control and secure the attacker's weapon when engaged (be it an edged weapon or fist), disable the attacker, and move on to the next target. Sometimes disabling the attacker happens quickly and simultaneously controls the weapon, sometimes it doesn't. Often there can be multiple attackers. So using bits and pieces of the trapping and techniques shown would be enough for some with some MA training and those having experience with hawks as weapons to defend themselves. Just some of the hooking moves and pomel strikes could be enough to manipulate a single confrontation into control if done correctly and if practiced. What began with an offensive strike could lead into a trap but again there needs to be A LOT of practice and possibly a bit more info on the motions and stances used for more advanced tecniques. It is informative and I would suggest anyone with MA training to strip it and take the things that would be most useful to you which varies person to person. Also Vec had it right. Speed is extremely important in this kind of weapon. Speed, reliability, and efficiency is most important in a weapon like this IMO. A heavier hawk with a larger head for a smaller guy would require a lot of adjustments to make useful and even then may not be as useful as a much lighter hawk that could beat him to the punch.

The end: The throwing is complete fluff but I guess you have to have some fun with a hawk that you can show viewers.

Summary: All in all it is not a horrible DVD nor does it lack content or instruction. It can definitely be better and I personally wouldn't do moves that could clip an artery on myself while executing unless I was advanced (you know at least two DVD's under my belt :p). If you watch it expecting to be a flawlessly trained weapons expert with hawks when it is done, you will be severely disappointed and may lose an eye. If you have some experience with hawks and MA training you may still be disappointed but can strip what is useful and do something with it. All in all watch it with the expectation that not everything presented may be suited to your experience/orientation and with the open mindedness to search for what may be useful for you. There should be at least something that you can come out of this with even if it is what not to do. Many of the previous posters have done this and the conversations and informaiton following have been very helpful for myself. Of course, I'm a noob when it comes to hawks as a weapon and some of you may be prolific hawk wielding killers out of the womb but to each his own. And if you are a prolific hawk wielding killer out of the womb put out a damn DVD so we can do another pass around cause I ain't getting any younger!!!!!!!!!!!!!;) A big thanks FSCJedi for putting this together and cutting me slack on my review time (Sorry I'm late man!).
 
Good review, Murdok! :thumbup: I liked your mention of stripping away what is useful. That's something any martial artist should be use to.

No worries on the tardiness. :D
 
i have enjoyed the opions of everyone in this thread and the time they put into it. this video sounds like it is not for me, but I have learn a few thing from the review or not,

1 Avoid the fight

2 Why throw your weapon at your opponent so he has a weapon.



Pat
 
ok The DVD arrived 2-29 I watched it 2X's .. Most everything has been covered by the other post's.. I thought it was ok if you have never played with a hawk you will learn the basics.. I liked the trapping moves but the video was too short.. It is ok for what is out thier in the DVD format for hawks .. I feel DWIGHT McLEMORE book on the subject would be a better choice for your $$$..
Thanks for the chance to veiw this..
Brad
 
My review.....


Firstly, the video quality was.....well, lacking. I know the video was originally shot on tape but I would think they could have found a better master.

Mr Keating seems to draw on FMA for his hawk techniques and seemed to lean toward the hawk as a tool for takedowns and locks which was interesting after watching Lynn Thompson's videos. I also liked how he discussed not only hawks but other similar tools such as axes and e-tools.
 
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