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Jason Guthrie Customs - South Africa
- Thread starter Nellem
- Start date
My take on this matter is as follows ...
A one-man-does-everything-himself maker like Jason can only make a set number of knives per day/week/month. The demand for Jason's Ranger with the belt finished blade already exceeds what he can make within a reasonable time so he closed his books already. Does it then matter that even more people prefer a hand polished bllade? Nope.
If Jason struggled to land orders then it would have mattered, but that is not the case at all here. In the long run Jason can offer alternatives but for now he's got enough to deal with. Ranger as it is is a huge success story and I am proud of what Jason achieved in such a short time.
There are enough makers out there that make knives with hand polished blades so anyone not liking a belt finish can support those makers instead.
A one-man-does-everything-himself maker like Jason can only make a set number of knives per day/week/month. The demand for Jason's Ranger with the belt finished blade already exceeds what he can make within a reasonable time so he closed his books already. Does it then matter that even more people prefer a hand polished bllade? Nope.
If Jason struggled to land orders then it would have mattered, but that is not the case at all here. In the long run Jason can offer alternatives but for now he's got enough to deal with. Ranger as it is is a huge success story and I am proud of what Jason achieved in such a short time.
There are enough makers out there that make knives with hand polished blades so anyone not liking a belt finish can support those makers instead.
A last comment from me then I will close this thread per Jason's request.
I get where both sides are coming from in this discussion but I would like to explain why Jason is so sensitive about this issue. Jason is a level-headed guy that appreciates input. The Ranger is the product of a consultative process and not something he came up with in isolation. I know this because I was part of the journey from the very beginning.
Jason is a youngster that is getting a lot of flack from older guys for not making knives "the accepted way". The "accepted way" includes hand polished blades, and excludes belt finishes. The "accpted way" also does not include products from Eric Tullis, someone Jason and I both have high regard for. Jason has been told that he must get in line or face a future outside of the formal knife making institutions who will not accpet his work as proof of his skills. I am working with another young maker here in SA who was told the very same thing. There is a growing frustration amongst young makers against what they see as an "old boys club" that makes rules that fits their personal tastes. The Direware debate on this forum illustrates this.
This is not new and happens in many speheres of our lives. We are however living in times of massive change where the differences are becoming more pronounced. Jason is caught up in this story. He decided to go his own way. There are others that will do the same. I see this first hand.
I get where both sides are coming from in this discussion but I would like to explain why Jason is so sensitive about this issue. Jason is a level-headed guy that appreciates input. The Ranger is the product of a consultative process and not something he came up with in isolation. I know this because I was part of the journey from the very beginning.
Jason is a youngster that is getting a lot of flack from older guys for not making knives "the accepted way". The "accepted way" includes hand polished blades, and excludes belt finishes. The "accpted way" also does not include products from Eric Tullis, someone Jason and I both have high regard for. Jason has been told that he must get in line or face a future outside of the formal knife making institutions who will not accpet his work as proof of his skills. I am working with another young maker here in SA who was told the very same thing. There is a growing frustration amongst young makers against what they see as an "old boys club" that makes rules that fits their personal tastes. The Direware debate on this forum illustrates this.
This is not new and happens in many speheres of our lives. We are however living in times of massive change where the differences are becoming more pronounced. Jason is caught up in this story. He decided to go his own way. There are others that will do the same. I see this first hand.
Guys must also understand that Jason is at the very beginning of his evolution as a knife maker and if the Ranger is anything to go by he's got a huge future ahead of him. In time his tatses/preferences might change and he might offer knifes that will meet other demands. As it stands now Jason wants to make knives that says "use me, don't collect me" and the belt finish is part of the strategy. The knife must not be so special that it will jot be used. In time Jason will make more collectors knives and the new Elite series of Rangers is part of that evolution. We South Africans are very practical people that are far more inclined to spend good money on knives that can be put to good use than we are collectors of delicate beautiful art pieces. We in general do not have the money to spend on stuff that will not be used. It is build into our DNA. That is where Jason is starting his journey from.
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2008
- Messages
- 263
Thanks for the comments guys! I realised that in all the pics, there are a mix between older generation Rangers and new ones. I listened to some of the concerns when they were bought up in the beginning, and went for a finer belt finish as to address some of the guys. This picture shows the finer belt finish compared to older one
Left older finish / right new finish and new grind.
Left older finish / right new finish and new grind.
J. Doyle
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2008
- Messages
- 8,181
The workmanship on the knives look great and your designs look good to me. I, too, would like to have one in hand sometime.
For what it's worth, I do agree with Steven and Jon on the blade finish. Not saying you aren't capable of one. Just simply that it would be MUCH more appealing to me with a hand rubbed finish.
One thing, if I may....I really don't understand the following quote:
It is your opinion, and you are entitled to it but I don't understand how a finish that can ONLY be applied by hand can seem less handmade than one that can be applied quickly by a machine with a belt.
Also, can you explain the advantages, if any, of a more 'aggressive' blade finish? It would seem to me that the rougher a blade finish is, the more it would increase drag and decrease slicing efficiency. I am completely aware that my statement may be talking about a very negligible difference.
I'm really not being snarky. I'm honestly interested in your viewpoint on this.
Thanks.
For what it's worth, I do agree with Steven and Jon on the blade finish. Not saying you aren't capable of one. Just simply that it would be MUCH more appealing to me with a hand rubbed finish.
One thing, if I may....I really don't understand the following quote:
It is your opinion, and you are entitled to it but I don't understand how a finish that can ONLY be applied by hand can seem less handmade than one that can be applied quickly by a machine with a belt.
Also, can you explain the advantages, if any, of a more 'aggressive' blade finish? It would seem to me that the rougher a blade finish is, the more it would increase drag and decrease slicing efficiency. I am completely aware that my statement may be talking about a very negligible difference.
I'm really not being snarky. I'm honestly interested in your viewpoint on this.
Thanks.
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2008
- Messages
- 263
The finish is finer on the latest models. Compared it to a Benchmade grind today and the found it was a finer finish than a Benchmade. I think the first early pics are digging me a grave...
The thin full flat grind slices like a dream in comparison to v-grind and the like. Even the older rougher belt finishes.
Rough finish screams of "short cuts" and in this business many people use a rough finish as a shortcut to shorten build time and lower cost.
Don't compare yourself to Benchmade, try Terzuola, whose using knives have a machine finish, but it looks a lot better. Or your fellow SA, Chris Reeve who does not use a finish as rough but offers a polished blade on request.
To quote someone, "Don't buy no ugly knife" and these knives are certainly not ugly, but the finish is a distraction.
Don't compare yourself to Benchmade, try Terzuola, whose using knives have a machine finish, but it looks a lot better. Or your fellow SA, Chris Reeve who does not use a finish as rough but offers a polished blade on request.
To quote someone, "Don't buy no ugly knife" and these knives are certainly not ugly, but the finish is a distraction.
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2008
- Messages
- 263
Chris Reeve is my Role Model as I'm sure for many other makers too.......
Chris was kind enough to teach/guide me on correct lock geometry. I wish to be at his level one day.
Some more hideous rough belt finishings....
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- Dec 23, 2006
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- 15,019
Earlier I mentioned that 30 years ago Phill Hartsfield wa ps doing rough finishes
If you are not familiar with him along with Bob Lum he was the maker who inspired the whole Americanized Tanto thing and was an inspiration to many makers such as Emerson and Thompson of CS
So rough finishes are nothing new
The detractors of this style finish were around than and obviously they are still around today
I for one have always liked them and the only problem I have with them are they will show rust and stains quicker
I am sure you can do a goner finish when requested so the point to me is mute
Let people request what they like
As for you design
This I like very much
It looks to not be a clunky overweight pig but what I personaly look for in a folding knife, something with nice weight and good lines
But there is nothing new really when it comes to knives and there is no old guard not accepting of certain finishes
There where people 30 years ago and I'm sure much longer that did and did not like rough finished knives
It takes all types and they are all just opinions in the end
If you are selling knives and all is good ......... Well than all is good
If you are not familiar with him along with Bob Lum he was the maker who inspired the whole Americanized Tanto thing and was an inspiration to many makers such as Emerson and Thompson of CS
So rough finishes are nothing new
The detractors of this style finish were around than and obviously they are still around today
I for one have always liked them and the only problem I have with them are they will show rust and stains quicker
I am sure you can do a goner finish when requested so the point to me is mute
Let people request what they like
As for you design
This I like very much
It looks to not be a clunky overweight pig but what I personaly look for in a folding knife, something with nice weight and good lines
But there is nothing new really when it comes to knives and there is no old guard not accepting of certain finishes
There where people 30 years ago and I'm sure much longer that did and did not like rough finished knives
It takes all types and they are all just opinions in the end
If you are selling knives and all is good ......... Well than all is good
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
- Messages
- 1,670
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Jason (the maker) likes doing this kind of finish. He feels it's the right look for his design. Would it make sense to make a satin option available, considering the responses from some stating how they really like the design, but dislike the blade finish? Depends on cost analysis I suppose. Might he offer it sometime (maybe at a higher price point) if requested? I have no idea. Ask him. Send him a pm, he is obviously active on this thread.
Some like the rough look, some don't. I do think it would be too bad if he lost sales due to such a small factor like a preference in blade finish. But at the end of the day it is his choice to do it, and your choice whether or not to purchase.
Some like the rough look, some don't. I do think it would be too bad if he lost sales due to such a small factor like a preference in blade finish. But at the end of the day it is his choice to do it, and your choice whether or not to purchase.