JDM 5160 control shaft steel results, New steel, no more hunting for it

thanks Shane
I'll send you a mail and we'll talk about that..

I'm almost sure that Shell now owns Texaco many of them are wearing yellow now..

Yahup I'd like to see this thread stay on track pertaining to the JDM5160
and any of us that uses this steel can report their out-come with what they are using on it, I think is OK, I'd just hate to see,,
where do the peanuts come from to make peanut oil I'm using on D2 :confused: :D
Robert Thanks, most of the packages are landing in good shape I hear and glad to hear it Thanks.

when I have the time I'll post the most perornate (<spelling) results either on or both the knife making site and here with a new thread if needed.
 
This is probably redundant information, but I checked the John Deere website, and found that they use 5160 in quite a few places, all of it as load control shafts, and found in at least these tractor models; 4020, 7020, 7520.
Very expensive, if you buy it as parts ($150-200 for 18-24" on average). But, a call to my local dealer indicated that used ones are sometimes available if you get to know the shop foreman, although apparently a lot of people change their own.
http://jdparts.deere.com/servlet/co...servlets.searchcontroller.SpecificationSearch
A look at Timken bearings' page www.timken.com/timken_ols/steel/handbook/table.asp
allowed me to check out the specs on some of the other JD stuff. They even use 52100, but the pins are awful small. Their site is somewhat secure, so you'll have to log in and create an identity to access their pages. As before, perhaps redundant, but perhaps worthwhile for those of us in rural areas, and strapped for cash.
 
gijaney said:
This is probably redundant information, .
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the problem is getting the used shafts and many of the guys do just that,
if they can get them
the best thing with this steel is it's in batches and hopefully less of problem
of varying content in the steel
you could get a used shaft made 10 years ago and one made last year.
I'm not sure of the problems there
I don't know this for sure
ED may enlighten us that one..
he's used the old shafts and tested them for consistency I think..

but for the ones that have looked and can't find it used this is the next best option, it's new, void of cracks,and not previously heat threaded..

please start another thread if you'd like to talk about 52100 thanks :)
 
Well, I have all my steel sitting right here, ready to go! Can anyone suggest the best way to process this round stock into bars? I have a press and a Little Giant, so flattening won't be a problem. I'd like to make up a few "bars" for inventory, not nesessarily forge them into blades right now. This is going to be nice having the same steel as the rest of you, so that we can all get the proper methods of forging and heat treating :D
 
I have a little personal experience with the shafts. I have a JD dealership not a 1/4 mile from my house! Anyway, if you're familiar with where the shaft is, it pivots through the lower portion of the hitch pivot and travels through a volume of hydraulic fluid. On each end, as it comes out of the lower end, there are seals. The reason they get replaced is that the seals, over time, wear very fine grooves in the ends of the shaft and begin leaking hydraulic fluid all over the equipment shed floor! So, they get replaced. But! Here's why they are becoming harder to find - even at the JD dealership! JD started to produce OVER SIZED seals to make up for the grove worn into the shaft! Now, the farmer just replaces the old seals with over sized ones instead of replacing the shaft! I live right smack in the middle of the corn belt in Illinois where every other person you know is a farmer, and I have been told this info twice now in my search for used shafts. They used to be an everyday item in the repair shop, but now they're lucky to get more than just a few a YEAR! They replace the seals.
 
kbaknife said:
I have a little personal experience with the shafts. I have a JD dealership not a 1/4 mile from my house! Anyway, if you're familiar with where the shaft is, it pivots through the lower portion of the hitch pivot and travels through a volume of hydraulic fluid. On each end, as it comes out of the lower end, there are seals. The reason they get replaced is that the seals, over time, wear very fine grooves in the ends of the shaft and begin leaking hydraulic fluid all over the equipment shed floor! So, they get replaced. But! Here's why they are becoming harder to find - even at the JD dealership! JD started to produce OVER SIZED seals to make up for the grove worn into the shaft! Now, the farmer just replaces the old seals with over sized ones instead of replacing the shaft! I live right smack in the middle of the corn belt in Illinois where every other person you know is a farmer, and I have been told this info twice now in my search for used shafts. They used to be an everyday item in the repair shop, but now they're lucky to get more than just a few a YEAR! They replace the seals.
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very interesting thank you..
 
BTW, I've decided to just turn some of the rounds into bars, and during the process to go ahead and normalize the three times before pitching it on the shelf, figure it wouldn't hurt. I think my question was sort of confusing, expecially to me after I re-read it again :o)
 
If you want to start working with Dan's steel, I would suggest waiting a week so I can report what we are learning now.
If you got to forge now, keep your temp low, 1625 at the most. The scalw except the first heat will be light as snow flakes, you are just right. Forge clean, no sharp steps, keep it clean if you get a crease, grind it out immediately.

Sorry for the delay, but Blade Show is a serious event for me.

I will be forging tonight and should have some information soon.
Take Care
 
I'll Wait!!!!!! I really appreciate the help you are offering Ed, and it's worth the wait to hear your ideas and opinions about this. In fact, your involvment was the main reason I got in on Dan's offer (plus I knew I couldn't go wrong with Dan at the helm getting the steel to us!).
 
Had the shot and couldn't wait. The first blade, the bottom one, I forged the way I always do 5160. Probably a little hot because I got a lot of scale. After forging it to about 3/8" thick It took about an hour to get it to this point.
Taking Ed and Shane's advice on the other half of the bar I forged the top one at lower temps. Much less scale this time. After forging it down to 3/8" it took a lot longer to forge, 2 hours. Quick quenching and flash normalizing a couple times. I still have to forge the tang on the second but this is where I am so far.
I'll wait till I get the Texaco type A to do the heat treat

Larry
 

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Fellas,

It ain't none of my business but I kinda feel a kinship with all you guys who are using the JDM steel for the first time...especially for the guys who are forging it down by hand. Anyway, some questions from Larry via e-mail got me wondering...

Is this thread going to be a comparative of results from everybody who got some JDM Steel?

What kind of HT is being tried? What kind of controls?

Would it be appropriate to post some kind of general guidlines for testing?

Sound like a simple minded questions don't they. Prolly they are.

Shane

P.S. GOt in trouble speaking out of turn earlier about oil...not trying to butt in....much! :D
 
HT finished.
More info tomorrow.
Shane.....As far as I'm concerned jump in any time.

Larry
 
thanks for imput guys

Shane

I'm hoping this will come about in question form
kind of a learning curve of things that go wrong

I'm waiting on ED's findings on the first blade from him out of the first batch
just thinking??
(Ed do you want some out of the 2nd batch to compair to the first? )

I think learning by mistake is a great teacher only if we question after..
then we know some of what can so wrong..of course learning by an others
mistake saves time but we need both..

Ed knows the this steel best and would be best at determining if this new JDM steel is as good as the old JDM shaft steel, posable it could be better??
if in deed it is, then we have a foot hold in the JDM5160 supply ,

who would like to orchestrate a test pattern ?
Ed may be a good one for that?? :)
 
Hey Dan, After forging two hawk heads yesterday I thought I had enough energy to try that smaller piece of JD steel you had sent me. I was wrong. I did one heat and set it aside. It may set till my Claiborne press gets here or when I start feeling like I'm 21 again. Which ever comes first.......
 
I've elected to wait for some of the test results from Ed. I could go heat up a piece of the steel, and put in in my press or pound it on my LG, but I don't have the experience to know if it's reacting like it should be, and if it's at the correct temp. I still think we're on the edge of something really neat here with this steel, and I'll wait to see how the experts proceed with it. I'm pretty excited about the whole thing actually! I have two major projects I'm kicking off this year (some Scagel reproductions, and a few of my "Mesquite Mistress" knives), and Dans steel would be perfect for each (at least we're all hoping it is, and I'm almost sure it'll work out).
 
Dan, get ready for the drumroll. We're finishing the heat treating on the first batch and have two different methods Ed is trying. We are going to be running some tests tonight. I know he'll be giving you all the details after we test them. One thing for everyone to remember is that we are following strict forging through heat treating methods and any variations will definitely have an effect on how this steel will perform.
Was wondering if you could give me a ballpark cost of this steel to order some from you. I have a gentleman that is wanting some of it and then to have me forge it down to a workable billet for him.
Thanks, Butch
 
Ray I was wondring when that arm would give out some :)

Deveraux said:
Dan, get ready for the drumroll. We're finishing the heat treating on the first batch and have two different methods Ed is trying. We are going to be running some tests tonight. I know he'll be giving you all the details after we test them. One thing for everyone to remember is that we are following strict forging through heat treating methods and any variations will definitely have an effect on how this steel will perform.
Was wondering if you could give me a ballpark cost of this steel to order some from you. I have a gentleman that is wanting some of it and then to have me forge it down to a workable billet for him.
Thanks, Butch
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Great can't wait on the results

Butch go to the for sale forum or email me..this thing has pushed the sales thing too far now on shop talk. it's not about sales, it's about the steel,, but still pushing it just the same..
 
Dan, I'll contact you. I apologize for bringing it up here, I just got in a hurry about it and didn't go to the proper place. Have one more tempering to go on the blades and will go to testing. Thanks, Butch
 
Deveraux said:
Dan, I'll contact you. I apologize for bringing it up here, I just got in a hurry about it and didn't go to the proper place. Have one more tempering to go on the blades and will go to testing. Thanks, Butch
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no problem Butch I may have worded that wrong but meant well.

let us know on the testing for sure. :)
 
Dan, Ed and I finished grinding the 2 blades last night and I started performing the edge flexing on them. I worked on them until after 11pm and decided to wait and finish the testing later. Unfortunately it will be a few days before I can get back to them because I have to attend a funeral in CO. I will say that one of the blades did very well withstanding 15 edge flexes before chipping. We will give you a detailed report as soon as we can get back to them. Butch
 
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