Jim Wagner, Game Over

[markksr]

Spark,
If the resale value of my Jim Wagner Boker knives goes down due to your allowing this thread to continue, I want you to know that I will hold you personally responsable for any emotional and fiscal damages I may incur.

I'm calling the Anti-Defloration League!

Period.

That is all.

'nuff said.

 

[Bubbanumber1]

Typical Wagner, Special Operations? Reality? or just Imagination?

Jim Wagner's upcoming book is called Defensive Tactics for Special Operations.

Taught by Sgt. Jim Wagner, creator of the Reality Based Personal Protection system. A police officer with over 13 years experience in SWAT, Corrections, Special Forces, and the Military, Wagner has taught hundreds of police courses world-wide, including Brazil, Argentina, Israel, FBI and CIA. This video will teach you, step by step, everything you ever wanted to know about combat with a knife, and other edged weapons. The only way you're going to know how to defend against these grizzly weapons is to become and expert yourself, and that's what you will learn in this DVD. You will learn the 12 angles of attack and how to counter them, speed and reaction drills, prison yard methods, and more important, transition to your sidearm during a suprise knife attack. You'll lean how to not get SHANKED. Approx. 93 mins.

Jim Wagner Reality Based Blade

The ultimate tactical folder for military, police, and civilian self-defense designed by Jim Wagner and German engineered

Detailed Description
Just by looking at this knife for the first time, you know it's a professional tactical tool to defend yourself. After world-famous knife fighting expert Jim Wagner trained Germany's top counterterrorist team, GSG9, in knife tactics, we at Boker asked him if he would design the ultimate tactical folding knife for police, military and security personnel, and this is the result - the Jim Wagner Reality-Based Blade. This knife has tactical features that no other folder has - a gladius penetrating tip, a cutting kriss curve, two blood grooves in the blade, ergonomic finger grooves with anti-slip texturing, and a Thumb Guide Slide that guides the operator's thumb to the thumb stud for immediate deployment. Also featured is a clip kit that allows the operator to choose between a standard heavy-duty window-breaker or one that looks like an ordinary writing pen clip for undercover operations where conceiling the knife, and yet having instant access, is crucial. It has two lanyard holes for air, water and wilderness operations, and it comes in tactical subdued black. When the blade is retracted, the handle and exposed blade back is designed to be a tight impact weapon. To absorb the tremendous forces you can put to the knife, there is a solid lock back mechanism. Under the fiberglass-reinforced plastic, there are two 1 mm stainless steel liners to strengthen the construction and to give the right weight to the hand. The blade is made of 440C high performance stainless steel, which guarantees superior edge-holding ability and corrosion resistance. Not only does this weapon bear the name of the designer, but the blade is also emlazoned with the name of the fastest growing and most complete martial arts system in the world, Reality-Based Personal Protection. Jim Wagner's system has been taught to the American FBI, Brazilian GATE, Argentinean GOE, Israeli Special Forces, German Federal Police, Canadian Royal Mounted Police, and the list goes on. All the experiences the designer had during his several police and military missions were put into the concept of this knife. Overall length 9 1/16". Blade length 3 7/8". Weight 6.2 oz. Partially serrated blade. PROHIBITED ARTICLE FOR INTERNATIONAL SHIPMENTS. SHIPPED TO UNITED STATES LOCATIONS ONLY. $89.95

On October 17, 2007, Jim Wagner arrived to shoot a cover article for the February 2008 issue of Black Belt with longtime photographer Rick Hustead.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Spark,
If the resale value of my Jim Wagner Boker knives goes down due to your allowing this thread to continue, I want you to know that I will hold you personally responsable for any emotional and fiscal damages I may incur.

Markksr,
Hahahahahah! Having been in that "other thread," I want you to know your post is quite possibly one of the funniest I've seen on Bladeforums!:thumbup:

I just hope everybody that reads it "gets" the humor involved.

Regards,
3G

 

[Bubbanumber1]

Originally Posted by markksr

Spark,
If the resale value of my Jim Wagner Boker knives goes down due to your allowing this thread to continue, I want you to know that I will hold you personally responsable for any emotional and fiscal damages I may incur.

Markksr,
Hahahahahah! Having been in that "other thread," I want you to know your post is quite possibly one of the funniest I've seen on Bladeforums!:thumbup:

I just hope everybody that reads it "gets" the humor involved.

Regards,
3G

That one had coffee coming out of my nose!​

 

[ADD]

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/aboutjimwagner.html

"You won't like me when I am angry"

"Reality-based" ?

Even that background looks fake...
maybe a 4'x8' sheet of 3/8" paneled "brick" from the Home Depot?

 

[Parker]

The Boker Jim Wager knives can be had brand new for around 45 bucks or so, if I'm not mistaken.

The ad campaign is so over the top that it's sort of a parody.

If Jim Wagner is who he says he is, fine with me.
If he isn't, so it's just more advertising BS. There's plenty of that around, and not just in the knife business.

If it's a good knife or a cool knife or an interesting knife or a well made knife for 45 bucks or so - I think that's what's going to have people buying it or not.

Not the resume of Jim Wagner.

The Strider situation was different because of the price point of the knives.
Mick Strider was basically justifying the big numbers with his trumped up personal history.

If Jim Wagner was attempting to sell his knives for 3, 4, 5 hundred dollars based on his background - then his background would be worthy of closer scrutiny.

But for an inexpensive folder?
I doubt whether is paying much attention to the resume of "Jim Wagner".

My .02

There are multiple videos bieng sold as training aids to protect yourself and loved ones or team members from grievous injury and death under extremely violent circumstances.

To suggest that the difference is moot is horseshit.

The pricepoint on the knife has nothing to do with this and should not. It is again about integrity.

Mick and Duane unfortunately were shown beyond doubt to have invented great swaths of background about themselves with which to sell product.

At this point, these are allegations. However, that's how it starts with ANY investigation.

If these allegations were proven true, friend, this has a LOT more at stake potentially than Boker selling an ugly knife. This has much wider ramifications when you start thinking about the father who bought the Jim Wagner videos thinking that the tactics inside will assist in keeping his family alive.

Still think it's a small issue to debate?

I have no stake in this, nor do I have any personal interest in this. I always thought it was a crappy knife and will always think so. I have not bought one.

But the possibly larger-than-life bio is being used to sell other products as well, with greater implications than a knife geared more towards the teen-aged fantasy-tactical-folder crowd.

A lie is a lie is a lie. A lie told to make money while disseminating harmful information, well, that's a LIE and should be exposed and appropriate sanctions delivered. It's up to smarter men than I to figure out what those sanctions ought to be.

Bottom line, if the guy is a poser, he needs to be definitively exposed. If he's the real deal, his creds will check out and Bubba will apologize.

I have not read the entire thread, nor will I - this likely will not go 100 pages, but it will come up again.

I'll wait for the verdict. It's worth waiting for.

 

[JTR357]

The Boker Jim Wager knives can be had brand new for around 45 bucks or so, if I'm not mistaken.

The ad campaign is so over the top that it's sort of a parody.

If Jim Wagner is who he says he is, fine with me.
If he isn't, so it's just more advertising BS. There's plenty of that around, and not just in the knife business.
If it's a good knife or a cool knife or an interesting knife or a well made knife for 45 bucks or so - I think that's what's going to have people buying it or not.

Not the resume of Jim Wagner.

The Strider situation was different because of the price point of the knives.
Mick Strider was basically justifying the big numbers with his trumped up personal history.

If Jim Wagner was attempting to sell his knives for 3, 4, 5 hundred dollars based on his background - then his background would be worthy of closer scrutiny.

But for an inexpensive folder?
I doubt whether is paying much attention to the resume of "Jim Wagner".

My .02

I second that:thumbup:

....remember J.Lightning

 

[Bubbanumber1]

There are multiple videos bieng sold as training aids to protect yourself and loved ones or team members from grievous injury and death under extremely violent circumstances.

To suggest that the difference is moot is horseshit.

The pricepoint on the knife has nothing to do with this and should not. It is again about integrity.

Mick and Duane unfortunately were shown beyond doubt to have invented great swaths of background about themselves with which to sell product.

At this point, these are allegations. However, that's how it starts with ANY investigation.

If these allegations were proven true, friend, this has a LOT more at stake potentially than Boker selling an ugly knife. This has much wider ramifications when you start thinking about the father who bought the Jim Wagner videos thinking that the tactics inside will assist in keeping his family alive.

Still think it's a small issue to debate?

I have no stake in this, nor do I have any personal interest in this. I always thought it was a crappy knife and will always think so. I have not bought one.

But the possibly larger-than-life bio is being used to sell other products as well, with greater implications than a knife geared more towards the teen-aged fantasy-tactical-folder crowd.

A lie is a lie is a lie. A lie told to make money while disseminating harmful information, well, that's a LIE and should be exposed and appropriate sanctions delivered. It's up to smarter men than I to figure out what those sanctions ought to be.

Bottom line, if the guy is a poser, he needs to be definitively exposed. If he's the real deal, his creds will check out and Bubba will apologize.

I have not read the entire thread, nor will I - this likely will not go 100 pages, but it will come up again.

I'll wait for the verdict. It's worth waiting for.

My apology's for any confusion about information that was posted. As I was saying, I posted information here first as a benefit to the forum trying to give something back and earn my keep, not to bring attention to myself.

Wagner is now listed on POW Network. His actual records should be able to download within 72 hours, anyone who cannot wait till then can send me a PM with a email address and I will send out a few copies in a PDF Format. Here is a link to some of the records that are already posted. Note the Marine Sniper Certificate minus signature of any military personal.

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies384.htm

 

[Gene Martin]

So has anyone had a chat with Internal Affairs at Costa Mesa PD?

Gene

 

[rifon2]

There are multiple videos bieng sold as training aids to protect yourself and loved ones or team members from grievous injury and death under extremely violent circumstances.

To suggest that the difference is moot is horseshit.

The pricepoint on the knife has nothing to do with this and should not. It is again about integrity.

Mick and Duane unfortunately were shown beyond doubt to have invented great swaths of background about themselves with which to sell product.

At this point, these are allegations. However, that's how it starts with ANY investigation.

If these allegations were proven true, friend, this has a LOT more at stake potentially than Boker selling an ugly knife. This has much wider ramifications when you start thinking about the father who bought the Jim Wagner videos thinking that the tactics inside will assist in keeping his family alive.

Still think it's a small issue to debate?

I have no stake in this, nor do I have any personal interest in this. I always thought it was a crappy knife and will always think so. I have not bought one.

But the possibly larger-than-life bio is being used to sell other products as well, with greater implications than a knife geared more towards the teen-aged fantasy-tactical-folder crowd.

A lie is a lie is a lie. A lie told to make money while disseminating harmful information, well, that's a LIE and should be exposed and appropriate sanctions delivered. It's up to smarter men than I to figure out what those sanctions ought to be.

Bottom line, if the guy is a poser, he needs to be definitively exposed. If he's the real deal, his creds will check out and Bubba will apologize.

I have not read the entire thread, nor will I - this likely will not go 100 pages, but it will come up again.

I'll wait for the verdict. It's worth waiting for.

I agree with you that Wagner's background is important with respect to the training videos.

I disagree with you on some other things, but I'm not going to debate them point by point.
They're your opinions, and you're obviously entitled to them.

But I still think that very few folks really care about the guy's background when it comes to the purchase of a forty dollar folder.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Nothing against you, Rifon2, and I actually think you might be right. That's what troubles me.

But I still think that very few folks really care about the guy's background when it comes to the purchase of a forty dollar folder.

When it comes to stolen valor, I don't want ONE SOLITARY CENT of my money going to help the person doing the stealing! Heck, I'd sooner buy a counterfeit Spyderco (and I'd never, ever do that) than in any way, shape, or form, assist someone who has stolen the honor of our fighting men and women!



Regards,
3G

 

[rifon2]

When it comes to stolen valor, I don't want ONE SOLITARY CENT of my money going to help the person doing the stealing! Heck, I'd sooner buy a counterfeit Spyderco (and I'd never, ever do that) than in any way, shape, or form, assist someone who has stolen the honor of our fighting men and women!



Regards,
3G

Well, 3G, once again I agree with you. :thumbup:
If this Wagner guy's fraudulently using stolen valor, IMO he's got to be dealt with very appropriately. And the quicker, the better.

My point was only as you saw it - the numbness of most of the buying public to this type of advertising. I'm not saying it's right, and did not mean to imply that.

 

[3Guardsmen]

I understood exactly what you were saying, Rifon2, and agree with you.:thumbup: It's a shame more don't feel the way some of us do about issues like stolen valor!

Regards,
3G

 

[Bubbanumber1]

I want to be clear, what has been presented here about Wagner are the facts according to actual records, not speculation. Speculation has its place but it remains speculation until its backed up with documents and witnesses.

At this point nobody knows why Wagner was in the Army for only 8 months nor dose anyone know if that information was included when he submitted his resume and had his background looked into before becoming a jailer.

There is much confusion over his actual work record now as he has expanded on about every detail. One could say he took a black and white picture and added all the color himself. Some big issues concern the separation between times he was a paid police officer versus time when he was volunteer versus time when he was hanging around versus time when he was not where he said he was doing what he said he was doing. His Army time was the foundation of his record and the evidence presented shows him to be a bullshit artist concerning that record so it raises questions about every other record concerning him.

Then there is the issue of the training certificates he has presented on his website, The Advanced Marine Sniper training certificate that says United States Marine Corps does not even have a signature on the thing and appears to be the kind of document one would order off the internet or order out of the back of a comic book. I don't know about anyone else but I have never seen any DOD Certificate that did not have a signature on it, this is a big no go. If he just went down to the market and had his own Scout Sniper document made as a training certificate and went as far as using it as a credential what does that say about his other documents? What does that say about a man?

 

[JD Mandrell]

If he just went down to the market and had his own Scout Sniper document made as a training certificate and went as far as using it as a credential what does that say about his other documents? What does that say about a man?

An awful lot! :thumbdn:

 

[wolfmann601]

The next thing we will read is that Wagner's last name is really Poland!!!!

Stolen Valor should carry the death penalty, too many morons are making good money off their bogus claims.

Maybe have it carry a $250,000 fine might help also.

 

[Gene Martin]

In reading through his complete bio, the title Sgt comes from being a reserve deputy with Orange County Sheriff's Office. He apparently has done quite a bit of individual training and taken courses through various agencies, but his bio attributes very little to the military.

What stands out is that he has received extensive training and then turned around and started training, with little or no field experience. It's all book learning, so to speak. I don'r make light of any belts he has earned, because that requires some sparring and lots of training and discipline.

If he has taken a whole bunch of martial arts and lumped them into his own system, and can make good money at it, good for him. You'll note his background was in advertising and sales and he learned that very well. Knifemakers need classes on it because we mostly suck at self promotion. He is an expert at it.

Since he isn't actually involved with any agency, contacting anyone's Internal Affairs would be a waste of time. His bio says that he received his sniper training while with Costa Mesa PD. Yeah, there are no signatures on it, and every training cert I received or issued to anyone had a signature.

He appears to have minimized his Army training and played up training received with various law enforcement agencies, mostly as a part time officer.

The real question would coe down to: what does his bio say about his background when training others? I don't think there is a stolen valor issue, just someone who knows how to stretch the limits of his PR campaign. He doesn't allege high speed low drag military, just a whole bunch of training picked up and passed on.

Personally, if I was paying someone to teach me elephant hunting, I'd prefer an instructor who has shot a few elephants, not listened to someone tell him how.

My take on the guy.

Gene

 

[Bubbanumber1]

Wagner has now gone on defense by posting a couple diatribes for his die hard fan club.


http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72918

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,636.0.html




http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Cop-DVD-Sgt-Wagner/dp/B0007YN6UK

Product Description
Taught by Sgt. Jim Wagner, creator of the Reality Based Personal Protection system. A police officer with over 13 years experience in SWAT, Corrections, Special Forces, and the Military, Wagner has taught hundreds of police courses world-wide, including Brazil, Argentina, Israel, FBI and CIA. This video will teach you, step by step, everything you ever wanted to know about combat with a knife, and other edged weapons. The only way you're going to know how to defend against these grizzly weapons is to become and expert yourself, and that's what you will learn in this DVD. You will learn the 12 angles of attack and how to counter them, speed and reaction drills, prison yard methods, and more important, transition to your sidearm during a suprise knife attack. You'll lean how to not get SHANKED. Approx. 93 mins.

 

[Phil Elmore]

So, you're allowed to attack him repeatedly at a forum where he doesn't participate, and that's just standing up for all that is good and true in the world, but if he defends himself, he's posting "diatribes" for his "die hard fan club?"

Why exactly does this guy give you such a raging hard-on?

I don't know anything about Jim Wagner's background or claims. At some point I plan on evaluating some of his instructional materials. I quite like the knife in question and found it a reasonable value for the quality and features offered. That's pretty much where my opinion begins and ends.

 

[JD Mandrell]

Wagner has now gone on defense by posting a couple diatribes for his die hard fan club.


http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72918

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,636.0.html

If Wagner is a poser, then he deserves whatever he gets, but neither of those links contain any post made by him, only other people posting about him.