John Fitch

"How do I know all this? Dan (and Pam) Delevan and I are close friends."

More second hand or possibly third hand information.

What did he do? Wow the guy didn't show up for the exclusive knife party for the knife world muckymucks. Profits must have been down a few percent. Did anyone go broke? Not.

You guys are great.
 
Folks, in the guise of being extremely concerned over protecting his supposed friend Big John's honor, this brownshoe lowlife is doing nothing more than purposely going out his way to elicit more negative stories about the guy he's pretending to protect and he's probably getting off on it while doing it.

brownshow, your attempt to rattle good folk's cages here is proof that you are a wiener.

Just stop it already......pretending that you're here to defend your "friend" from the forces of evil. I very seriously doubt that you have any friends whatsoever......Lowlives usually don't....and you are a lowlife. This just isn't name calling on my part. You really are a lowlife!

Oh btw, as a CFO, I can spot degenerates like you from the other side of the globe.

There's hope for you though, brownshoe. Stop trying to be disliked everywhere you go and you might make friends.....eventualy, I could even warm up to you. :thumbup:

This is just my opinion, though. I could be wrong. :barf:


How do you like those apples? :thumbup:
 
brownshoe said:
"How do I know all this? Dan (and Pam) Delevan and I are close friends."

More second hand or possibly third hand information.

What did he do? Wow the guy didn't show up for the exclusive knife party for the knife world muckymucks. Profits must have been down a few percent. Did anyone go broke? Not.

You guys are great.
Click to expand...

brownshoe (by the way, brown is a good name for you)- I was there and in this (Plaza Cutlery) loop from the beginning (in 2002). Also, since you seem to be accusing me now of making up stories or third hand etc, why don't you call Dan Delevan at the store (or email him) and ask him? Here is the website; www.plazacutlery.com.
(dan is not a member of this forum).

So, in your opinion, the reserve a spot in a "once in 2 year" invitational show and bail out at the last minute, stiff the promoter for the fees, and disappoint the customers it ok?
Wow the guy didn't show up for the exclusive knife party for the knife world muckymucks.
Click to expand...
I don't know what a muckymuck is but this is an exclusive party and this invited guest who promised (repeated this promise a week before the show) to be there and pay for his spot and bring knives.. did not show up.

He also later promised (the right thing to do) to cover the costs and then backed out on that promise- this is ok too?

John was in all the advertising and promotions leading up to the show- he was in the ballot books that were printed up well before the show and based on the assurances to the promoter to be there.

Don't you think that the fellows who bought and paid for tickets to come to this show were disappointed when they found out that John was not there?

Kohai99 was at the Plaza Show and I am sure he was expecting to see John there. He and I were both at the ABS show in Reno and John was not there either.

What if some collector traveled across the country to see John hoping to buy a knife from him and found out that he was not there?

This is a matter of character and integrity. We all make mistakes in life, love, business etc but it is how we handle those mistakes that we are judged.

It may be true that knifemakers, artists, and others in the creativity business may not be the best business people in terms of managing their work load/flow.

This is fine. We all understand that and collectors and dealers alike are very tolerant and patient with knifemakers- shit does happen- weather, supplies not showing up or showing up wrong- illness, personal issues or just plain bad luck. All a part of this and other businesses.

But, when these events become a crutch or an easy excuse to mis-manage your business, then that is wrong.

This is all about character and integrity- perhaps, brownshow, you are not familiar with these terms.

Also, if you are trying to protect John Fitch here with these absurd statements then you are not doing him any favors.

If you want to help him then here are 2 ways- first, stop spewing your crap and continuing to bring this thread back to the top of the Custom Forum, on Bladeforums- which is one of the most important custom forums in the knife world.
Second- call John on the phone and try to convince him to redeem himself by apologizing to Dan Delevan and paying up what he is responsible for.

Did anyone go broke?
Click to expand...
Dan did suffer a loss and it is not for you, anonymous brownshow, to make the call whether he can afford that loss or not. It is a matter of principal and keeping ones word to pay a debt.

Now, on to Keith's post- which is way more important than yours.

Neil
 
Keith Montgomery said:
It doesn't bother me that this stuff has been revealed in my thread. It saddens me that the stuff happened.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, it is a shame that this thread too the direction that it did- that is far away for what you had in mind.

I did not start this stuff about John in this thread, but I stand up for my friends- and Dan and Pam are friends of mine and were done wrong by John Fitch in this matter of the Plaza Cutlery Show.

You know your knives very well and John is a great knifemaker- I am happy that he did right by you and I hope that what has been described here by me and the others is not the norm for him.

Enjoy your knife and have a nice weekend,

Neil
 
brownshoe said:
"How do I know all this? Dan (and Pam) Delevan and I are close friends."

More second hand or possibly third hand information.

What did he do? Wow the guy didn't show up for the exclusive knife party for the knife world muckymucks. Profits must have been down a few percent. Did anyone go broke? Not.

You guys are great.
Click to expand...

are you out of your mind? Do you have any idea of the cost of these kind oif things? Do you have any idea of the profit margin of a knife purveyor such as Dan or Neil? Look at the cost of a custom from them vs the cost from the maker, and then look at their outlays and risks. I don't know either of these guys personally, but I assure you that this kind of thing is a heavy financial hit for Dan. Not to mention Neil's point--what if a collector goes to the show-at a cost of a couple grand--to meet a specific maker who has guaranteed to show up-- and then the maker is not there? Would a couple of grand make me go broke? Nooo, but it would sure reduce my knife budget for quite awhile. That kind of thing is understandable in the case of an extreme family emergency--but no other excuse will do. Financial problems? Not good enough--unless you explained it to Dan, who will tell the rest of us. We've all been there.

And if you don't think that people go to shows to meet one specific maker--well, I am here to tell you that you are wrong. I have done, and I do.

Your posts make me think that you understand nothing about this business.
 
It bothers me when people comment on such actions with things to the tune of, "oh well, he's a great guy and a great maker but a poor businessman". Being a good or bad businessman will make or break your business. You can have complete integrity and fail at your business. This is not a case of bad business practices, this is a case of bad ethics.
 
Sorry to hear this. I like Big John and was looking foward to seeing him at The Plaza Show. I have heard the rumors but didn't know any details. I hope Big J can pull it together.
 
I reread my above rant toward brownshoe and I apologize for making it here in this thread, eventhough it felt pretty good saying it.

Sometimes I have a habit of posting in regular forums as though I'm in the Whine & Cheese forum.....my bad.

I hope John can set himself straight.
 
Most of this comes as unhappy news to me. :( I do hope someone close to John will sit him down and let him know that this is just not on. My dealings with him have always been good and I have always found him to be extremely personable and friendly. Like Don said, I do hope he can pull it together.

Roger
 
Thanks, I've gotten a lot of help in staying humble.

I've met Mr. Fitch, once, and he seems like a nice earnest man.

My comments in this thread were not concerned with him but with the behaviour of the people on this thread.

I pointed out that all but one or two of the negative remarks were second hand. This is rumor. Those that were first hand, and second hand, could have been readily excused by a compasionate person.

I was taught that civilized compasionate ethical people, AKA gentlemen, did not spread rumor, particularly in a public place. I held up this mirror. It elicited more rumor and multiple personal attacks. I think you all have proven me true...your behaviour is boorish at the least, libelous at the worst.

Edited to Add: Most of the negative remarks about Mr. Fitch involve people who wished to profit on the sale of his work. They lost this opportunity. Now they are attacking his reputation. Is this retribution for their failure to profit from his work? If so shame on them. Orstuff is a purveyour who is now denigrating the reputation of someone who has upset the dealer network. Is this a cabal or a coincidence? Beware knifemakers if you disturb the powerful.
 
You're a fool, brownshoe. Most knowledge is not acquired first-handed. A brain is very useful in assessing the veracity of what one hears and determining what weight to give it. I recommend you get one. It is a basic social skill to be able to determine when and how to give someone the benefit of the doubt in the face of negative testimony.

I have no interest in "compassionate civilized" people if all they do is take refuge in "hear no evil, say no evil" moral relativism. This is simply a cowardly attitude.
 
Brownshoe, it doesn't appear to me that what Neil posted had anything to do with loss of profit. He pointed out something that John did that would not be right for anyone to do to anyone else.

What John did hurt Dan finacially, but I bet that Dan was just as badly hurt by the fact that someone he trusted did not follow through on promises that were made. What happened hurt Dan in the short term (hopefully it will not hurt him in the long term, but it might), but it will definitely hurt John in the long term. When a maker does that kind of thing to the folks that put on shows, it gets around. The maker will soon find that he isn't welcome at shows.

John has always been a standup guy with me, and I personally have no complaints about him whatsoever. He is someone that I wish has great success, and I hope that he doesn't shoot himself in the foot. Maybe things have happened in John's life that have made knifemaking not very important to him.
 
horseshoe, are you getting it yet?

We're a bunch of knife collectors who have an interest in supporting each other and our hobby. We're not out to get Big J. But at the same time, we're not going to allow our community to be exposed to potential harm when someone in it decides to start taking advantage of people through lies and deceit.

There isn't one person here that wouldn't try to help John if he asked for it, even if they got screwed by him.

If Big J was in need for money, you can bet we'd try to get it to him. If he needed something else, we'd try to help him.

You don't get it and you probably never will.

You were taught a buncha different things while growing up, except for the most important thing which is to stop acting like a dick toward good people with good intentions.
 
There aren't any n00bs in this thread, but just to be sure... everyone is aware of brownshoe's postings about Spyderco, and the demands he's made of Sal Glesser right here on BF, right?
 
RWS said:
horseshoe, are you getting it yet?

We're a bunch of knife collectors who have an interest in supporting each other and our hobby. We're not out to get Big J. But at the same time, we're not going to allow our community to be exposed to potential harm when someone in it decides to start taking advantage of people through lies and deceit.

There isn't one person here that wouldn't try to help John if he asked for it, even if they got screwed by him.

If Big J was in need for money, you can bet we'd try to get it to him. If he needed something else, we'd try to help him.

You don't get it and you probably never will.

You were taught a buncha different things while growing up, accept for the most important thing which is to stop acting like a dick toward good people with good intentions.
Click to expand...

And with that I am closing this thread
We can start another if thou wishes.
Randy
 
Sorry I am not normally on Blade Forums. Maybe if there were 48 hours in a day I could, as I love to pick on Garsson and he me.

Just to set the record straight, Neil is correct in the information he posted. Neil and I are good friends and discus business issues that come up and try and help each other out. John was one of my problems this last fall. I took heat at the show for promoting him and Neil was there and heard the complaints as he was helping with the show.

Bob Lum would have loved to attend the show as would have others but that opportunity was taken form them. Yes it did cost me and I had to go into my pocket to cover cost. What bothers me the most is my stating a knife maker will be attending the show and people spending their money to attend the show only to find a certain maker decided not to follow through. I understand personal problems as Mike Snody and Alfred Pendrey as both had serious emergencies come up. It happens and poor Al had the hurricanes the year before!

Hope this clarifies for some of you Neil was speaking first hand and not second. Great thing about attending a knife show you get to meet people and discus issues and make friends.

Take care!


Dan Delavan
Plaza Cutlery, Inc.
 
Beware knifemakers if you upset the network of dealers and the knife investors.

This closed thread was opened to let a powerful dealer provide un-needed one-sided testimony. This is looking more like a conspiracy than a coincidental series of complaints.

You all are still unfairly practicing trial by internet with this therad.

This was an "attaboy" thread. Out of the subsequent rumor and innuendo, there are now only two direct complaints. Of those two, only one claims to have lost anything of value and that wasn't related to knives but to hotel rooms and table registration. I've arranged for shows/meetings, sure you may "lose" some money, but no money is really lost, just anticipated profit. A properly run show has a real registration deadline, the attendees cover their own costs, unless they are invited free guests and there are more than the minimum number of attendees to cover the hotel obligations and other costs. As to "disappointing collectors," nobody goes to the Plaza Cutlery Show just to see one maker.
 
brownshoe said:
Beware knifemakers if you upset the network of dealers and the knife investors.

This closed thread was opened to let a powerful dealer provide un-needed one-sided testimony. This is looking more like a conspiracy than a coincidental series of complaints.

You all are still unfairly practicing trial by internet with this therad.

This was an "attaboy" thread. Out of the subsequent rumor and innuendo, there are now only two direct complaints. Of those two, only one claims to have lost anything of value and that wasn't related to knives but to hotel rooms and table registration. I've arranged for shows/meetings, sure you may "lose" some money, but no money is really lost, just anticipated profit. A properly run show has a real registration deadline, the attendees cover their own costs, unless they are invited free guests and there are more than the minimum number of attendees to cover the hotel obligations and other costs. As to "disappointing collectors," nobody goes to the Plaza Cutlery Show just to see one maker.
Click to expand...

Man.... you are one sick dude. I hope there are lots of good doctors, (mental health ones) in your area.

I also hope they close this thread now so as to leave your last post intact- let everybody know what a demented sick f--k you are.

Best of luck to those around you,

Neil Ostroff
 
If it's not a dealer conspiracy, why does one of the top dealers respond within 3 minutes?

Personal attacks just prove my point concerning the ethics of the posters on this thread.
 
brownshoe said:
If it's not a dealer conspiracy, why does one of the top dealers respond within 3 minutes?

Personal attacks just prove my point concerning the ethics of the posters on this thread.
Click to expand...

I hope you realize you're NOT doing John Fitch any service with your posts. You hardly know him (you said you met him once) and you contradict people who did business with him. Think about it: why would they openly lie about this on a public forum?
I have no dog in this fight, and don't know John Fitch or any of the involved parties. Unless I hear/read otherwise, from him directly or from a reliable (to me) source, what John Fitch did qualifies as lousy business ... at best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top