John White Old Glory D Guard WIP
- Thread starter Kevin Jones
- Start date
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- Dec 26, 2005
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- 519
Looks like a real nice project and am sure John will execute a fine piece.
Congratulations Kevin, looking forward to seeing more.
Jon
Congratulations Kevin, looking forward to seeing more.
Jon
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Thanks are due here to Kevin for posting up this WIP, but more thanks for coming up with such a fun project. We'd been talking about a Damascus D-guard for a while, and even had some Walrus picked out for a frame handle in my usual style.
When the time rolled around to start, though, Kevin said he wanted something more favoring the old-time look. He had noticed how many of the old D-Guards had stag handles, and asked if I'd like to use a beauty of a taper that he had on hand.
I was on board as soon as I saw it.
It was Kevin's feeling for the traditional that led me to propose a Damascus pattern I'd been thinking about, "Stars and Stripes." I wanted to suggest in Damascus the patriotic flavor of the old Sheffield etched blades you see in the historical photographs.
Tomorrow I'll be grinding down to the pattern in the forged-to-profile blade billet. We'll see how it went.
In the meantime, thanks again, Kevin.
John
When the time rolled around to start, though, Kevin said he wanted something more favoring the old-time look. He had noticed how many of the old D-Guards had stag handles, and asked if I'd like to use a beauty of a taper that he had on hand.
I was on board as soon as I saw it.
It was Kevin's feeling for the traditional that led me to propose a Damascus pattern I'd been thinking about, "Stars and Stripes." I wanted to suggest in Damascus the patriotic flavor of the old Sheffield etched blades you see in the historical photographs.
Tomorrow I'll be grinding down to the pattern in the forged-to-profile blade billet. We'll see how it went.
In the meantime, thanks again, Kevin.
John
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Definitely a subscriber! I'm getting tingles already.
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This comes in handy !!!!! thanks for showing
Claudio
Claudio
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not sure how it took me so long to open this.... what a great opportunity for us to learn. Thanks so much for posting this. Multi-bar damascus goes so, so, so far back into time..... and it will be a joy to see it utilized in this fashion.
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Welded the bars into two half-billets, 3 & 3, two stripes and one star in each:
When cooled, cut half the tip curve in the end of each bar, and saved the
cut-offs to make sacrificial anvils for welding the blade billet:
Heated each half up, forged the tips down straight. Then cleaned the center,
mating edges, lightly etched to check pattern mating, and MIG'd the two bars
together to make an air-tight "box" for forge welding, and tacked the tip
cut-offs in place:
In one continuous operation, forge-welded the billet halves together, knocked
off the tip cut-offs, and forged the billet to profile:
The forged-to-profile blade billet cooling in
still air after a 1600 F normalizing cycle. This cycle resolves most of the
residual stresses from the forging, evens out the grain size, and begins to
reduce grain size enlarged by the high heats of welding and subsequent forging
at a welding heat:
When cooled, cut half the tip curve in the end of each bar, and saved the
cut-offs to make sacrificial anvils for welding the blade billet:
Heated each half up, forged the tips down straight. Then cleaned the center,
mating edges, lightly etched to check pattern mating, and MIG'd the two bars
together to make an air-tight "box" for forge welding, and tacked the tip
cut-offs in place:
In one continuous operation, forge-welded the billet halves together, knocked
off the tip cut-offs, and forged the billet to profile:
The forged-to-profile blade billet cooling in
still air after a 1600 F normalizing cycle. This cycle resolves most of the
residual stresses from the forging, evens out the grain size, and begins to
reduce grain size enlarged by the high heats of welding and subsequent forging
at a welding heat:
Last edited:
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Damascus blade billet in digital oven-1600F
Following the initial normalizing cycle are three more, at descending
temperatures; 1500F,1450F, and 1425F. These cycles will further reduce stress,
and bring the grain size well into the the desired ranges for strength after
hardening.
Finally an hours' soak at 1200F, yields a semi-spheroidal, annealed state ready
for grinding and hardening.
One thing I forgot to show earlier was the 1/16 " steel pattern, made from our drawing,
which I can lay against the billet as I forge, to get the profile just right, so I don't have to grind
away the pattern later.
With the blade billet forged to profile, heat cycled, and annealed, I'll begin
by grinding the exact profile, using work rests , first on the wheel, then the
platen:
I want to have forged closely enough, using my pattern, so that only a bit less than 1/16, just
the decarb, gets ground off.
You'll note that the billet was forged at a constant thickness of 9/16." The
pattern in the "Stars" twists is in the center third, and all that extra
damascus gets ground away! Oh for a EDM machine and a surface grinder:
Following the initial normalizing cycle are three more, at descending
temperatures; 1500F,1450F, and 1425F. These cycles will further reduce stress,
and bring the grain size well into the the desired ranges for strength after
hardening.
Finally an hours' soak at 1200F, yields a semi-spheroidal, annealed state ready
for grinding and hardening.
One thing I forgot to show earlier was the 1/16 " steel pattern, made from our drawing,
which I can lay against the billet as I forge, to get the profile just right, so I don't have to grind
away the pattern later.
With the blade billet forged to profile, heat cycled, and annealed, I'll begin
by grinding the exact profile, using work rests , first on the wheel, then the
platen:
I want to have forged closely enough, using my pattern, so that only a bit less than 1/16, just
the decarb, gets ground off.
You'll note that the billet was forged at a constant thickness of 9/16." The
pattern in the "Stars" twists is in the center third, and all that extra
damascus gets ground away! Oh for a EDM machine and a surface grinder:
Last edited:
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- Oct 28, 2006
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With the billet edge ground to exact profile, I can lay it on a granite plate,
and using a height carbide tipped height gage, scribe two parallel lines, 1/4
inch apart, centered on the edge of the blade billet, all the way around:
About 30 minutes, and two 50 grit belts later, here's a 1/4 inch thick blade
blank, ready for rough grinding to shape.
I'm always a bit bemused when I see long arguments on forging vs stock removal.
Multi-bar damascus with the pattern in the center takes both forging and stock removal
on a massive scale, and if I had a howitzer I'd probably use that, too:
In preparation for rough grinding, the height gage is again useful, to scribe
lines .026" apart on the cutting edge, and guide lines near the tip for
pre-tapering:
After "eyeball" grinding about half the distal taper into the blank, (the rest
will come automatically, due to the profile taper, as I grind the bevels) a
carbide faced shoulder filing clamp from Uncle Al is set where I want the grind lines.
I'll begin by grinding about a 45degree bevel on each side of the blade, down to the
two scribed cutting edge lines:
and using a height carbide tipped height gage, scribe two parallel lines, 1/4
inch apart, centered on the edge of the blade billet, all the way around:
About 30 minutes, and two 50 grit belts later, here's a 1/4 inch thick blade
blank, ready for rough grinding to shape.
I'm always a bit bemused when I see long arguments on forging vs stock removal.
Multi-bar damascus with the pattern in the center takes both forging and stock removal
on a massive scale, and if I had a howitzer I'd probably use that, too:
In preparation for rough grinding, the height gage is again useful, to scribe
lines .026" apart on the cutting edge, and guide lines near the tip for
pre-tapering:
After "eyeball" grinding about half the distal taper into the blank, (the rest
will come automatically, due to the profile taper, as I grind the bevels) a
carbide faced shoulder filing clamp from Uncle Al is set where I want the grind lines.
I'll begin by grinding about a 45degree bevel on each side of the blade, down to the
two scribed cutting edge lines:
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- Oct 28, 2006
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Grinding the 45 degree angles with a used belt removes the sharp corners from the cutting edge,
and saves the grit of the brand- new belt that I'll use now to grind the bevels.
I'll begin grinding the bevels, working with a new 50 grit Norton ceramic belt.
I'll grind side to side, alternately, working the grind upwards toward the spine.
At about this point, with the grind lines at the ricasso set evenly with the
shoulder-filing clamp, I remove the clamp, and finish the grind free-hand,
only because the clamp feels a bit clumsy in my hand, and I think I can tweak things out
a bit better without the clamp's weight.
After the 50 grit grind, I go over the blade with a new 120 grit, and another
new 220 grit, and clean the cutting edge and the spine with 220 grit, to remove any stress risers for hardening:
Tomorrow I'll thread the tang, stamp my mark on the ricasso, and it'll be ready to harden.
and saves the grit of the brand- new belt that I'll use now to grind the bevels.
I'll begin grinding the bevels, working with a new 50 grit Norton ceramic belt.
I'll grind side to side, alternately, working the grind upwards toward the spine.
At about this point, with the grind lines at the ricasso set evenly with the
shoulder-filing clamp, I remove the clamp, and finish the grind free-hand,
only because the clamp feels a bit clumsy in my hand, and I think I can tweak things out
a bit better without the clamp's weight.
After the 50 grit grind, I go over the blade with a new 120 grit, and another
new 220 grit, and clean the cutting edge and the spine with 220 grit, to remove any stress risers for hardening:
Tomorrow I'll thread the tang, stamp my mark on the ricasso, and it'll be ready to harden.
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i ll be watchign for sure
BTW aint it a shame about grinding all that dammy steel off to get to the stars ( i know its worth it tho as im making a razor thats on a heavy twist )
BTW aint it a shame about grinding all that dammy steel off to get to the stars ( i know its worth it tho as im making a razor thats on a heavy twist )
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John has developed a beautiful new damascus pattern for our Bowie, however he discovered a small defect in the weld near the ricasso and anyone who knows John or has examined his knives knows he strives for perfection. I really appreciate that as a collector.
In John's words:
Hardened and tempered the blade today. I then go back to the grinder bring the flats down a bit, first with the 50 grit, then 120 and 220. This gets rid of any surface de-carb, and thins the edge.
This is the 2nd point where I can really examine the damascus. Sometimes after the strain of hardening,
something shows up that couldn't be seen before. There's an area up near the ricasso where the last weld
between the triple bars is not as perfect as it could be.
That won't do. I started a new billet today.
These things are part of the game when welding up these large billets, and I
just have to be willing to trash a blade if it doesn't look right to me.
Here's a picture of the hardened blade with the quick etch. You can see what the pattern looks like clearly now.
This is, by the way, the area with the bad weld. You can't see it after the
etch, but I know it's there.
In John's words:
Hardened and tempered the blade today. I then go back to the grinder bring the flats down a bit, first with the 50 grit, then 120 and 220. This gets rid of any surface de-carb, and thins the edge.
This is the 2nd point where I can really examine the damascus. Sometimes after the strain of hardening,
something shows up that couldn't be seen before. There's an area up near the ricasso where the last weld
between the triple bars is not as perfect as it could be.
That won't do. I started a new billet today.
These things are part of the game when welding up these large billets, and I
just have to be willing to trash a blade if it doesn't look right to me.
Here's a picture of the hardened blade with the quick etch. You can see what the pattern looks like clearly now.
This is, by the way, the area with the bad weld. You can't see it after the
etch, but I know it's there.
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The willingness to cast aside even small defects is one mark of a
true craftsman....John IS.
true craftsman....John IS.
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adamrockcrawler
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Wow this is truely amazing
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One thing about a WIP being published as it happens is that you get the bad news unvarnished.
Making damascus sometimes seems like a game of Whack a Mole; taking steps to eliminate one possible source of problems, only to discover another. In any case, as I was once told, you're only as good as your last weld, and part of the last weld on this multi-bar wasn't quite right.
This was a long billet, and I suspect the area near the handle was a bit too cool. The billet looked great when ground down and still appeared fine after the rough grind, but when the blade was hardened, tempered, and re-ground for hand sanding, I could see a defect near the ricasso.
This isn't the first blade or billet I've had to throw away, and I'm sure it won't be the last. I was also told, when I began to make damascus, that the willingness to toss your mistakes is the only guarantee of success.
I welded up the two 13 layer billets for the stripes and made the first two welds on the stars billet today for a new blade.
We'll be posting back up when I get to the stage where this one failed.
"Getting back on the horse"
John
Making damascus sometimes seems like a game of Whack a Mole; taking steps to eliminate one possible source of problems, only to discover another. In any case, as I was once told, you're only as good as your last weld, and part of the last weld on this multi-bar wasn't quite right.
This was a long billet, and I suspect the area near the handle was a bit too cool. The billet looked great when ground down and still appeared fine after the rough grind, but when the blade was hardened, tempered, and re-ground for hand sanding, I could see a defect near the ricasso.
This isn't the first blade or billet I've had to throw away, and I'm sure it won't be the last. I was also told, when I began to make damascus, that the willingness to toss your mistakes is the only guarantee of success.
I welded up the two 13 layer billets for the stripes and made the first two welds on the stars billet today for a new blade.
We'll be posting back up when I get to the stage where this one failed.
"Getting back on the horse"
John
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- Jan 26, 2008
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Kevin, this will be a great one! i always enjoy a WIP thread, whether the knife is going to be mine or I'm just being a voyeur. The damascus pattern is really cool.
It always pains me when a maker has to break a blade. I've had 2 big knives made for me by different Mastersmiths where the first blades were destroyed. All of the work gone because of a tiny flaw. I appreciated the fact that the makers insisted on starting over . Much respect, John!
Really looking forward to seeing this knife when it is completed.
It always pains me when a maker has to break a blade. I've had 2 big knives made for me by different Mastersmiths where the first blades were destroyed. All of the work gone because of a tiny flaw. I appreciated the fact that the makers insisted on starting over . Much respect, John!
Really looking forward to seeing this knife when it is completed.
