John_0917 be careful.

SALTY

SALTY

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Feedback: +157 / =0 / -0
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Mar 19, 2000
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So, here's an excerpt from his advertisement.[I bolded select wording.]


Pacific Salt: Light user, some marks on the black coating but nothing terrible. Edge is still factory and is chainsaw sharp. Action is nicely broken in, flicks easily. Just a tiny side to side play if force, none vertically. Includes a free 550 cord lanyard in black. Includes original box and inserts.

No lanyard but no biggie as I have plenty of 550 cord and a son who can do cool stuff with it. The issue is the edge; it was not "still factory." On the short non-serrated part near the tip, there was a crude sharpening attempt which I noticed by feeling the pronounced burr. My aged eyes now aided by a 4X loupe, it was obvious that the blade had been sharpened and was not as advertised.

I contact seller and got the following response, quoted here in full.

Sorry to hear you're disappointed, that was my error in removing the 550 lanyard at some point. As far as the point, I did not ever sharpen it myself. However, I was not the original owner, I bought the knife in almost new (not LNIB but not really used much) condition and obviously used it as I mentioned. Never examined the bevels up close, never had a reason to as it is still very sharp regardless. To the best of my knowledge, the edge is/was factory and if it appears to not be under close scrutiny then that is news to me.

I tried to be as clear and accurate in my listing as possible and was very open about the other wear marks on it etc. I feel I priced the knife appropriately and we reached a sale price that I believe is fair. I hope you don't feel there was any intent on my part to deceive you on the condition because there certainly was not. In short, I'm sorry you feel that I did not represent the knife accurately, the Exchange relies on an element of trust always and I try to do my part in supporting that. I hope there are no hard feelings and that you enjoy and make good use of the knife.


All of a sudden he's not the original owner and someone else was responsible - except no one else posted the ad and typed the description.

What he doesn't get is that BF really is a good place with many really good people. Taking factual liberties for a modestly priced knife that would have changed the value ever so little, is indicative of conduct that should be outed. The thing that frosted my cookies more than the condition of the knife was the song and dance I got when contacting him. He goes on and on about how honestly and truthfulness is so important but, in the end, "sorry."

Practicing parting petulance, he shoots me a negative feedback for what? 1. Paying immediately; 2. Expecting the knife to be as represented; and 3. Saying something to him when it was not.

I've been here for a good while, enjoyed a 100% feedback here, on eBay and other places but never thought I'd get dinged ... as a buyer! Oh well.
 
Suggest you post some pics, provide a link to the sale thread, and advise him of this thread.
 
Not cool on his part. PM to follow.
 
Gastonknife said:
Suggest you post some pics, provide a link to the sale thread, and advise him of this thread.
Click to expand...

Yep, that is just for starters.

Here is what should have happened or been done better:
Asking for MORE pictures is always something that you should ask for if you need them BEFORE the purchase. One picture would not cut it for me, asking for additional pictures is a no brainer.

Contacting the seller was good, the alleged response wasn't. It seems that the expectations may or may not have been very realistic cor the item. Posting a picture of the item received especially the area in question doesn't help matters

I cannot see in the original ad where it said that the seller was the original owner and apparently no one asked before the agreement to purchase was made. How that is relevant I don't understand. The knife was being sold as a light user to begin with, so why would it matter if one person aside from him owned it?

Leaving retaliatory feedback now allows us to issue a temporary 90 day, yes that is (3 months). It's jaw dropping the lack of simple communication between adults, really.
 
Looking at the listing and communications on this; I would say the buyer here is being very picky for what is and was represented as a light "user". 4x lope? really. Seller should have sent the lanyard - it was noted in the listing. I personally, would have ended up offering the buyer a refund, at least offer to send the lanyard(if he still wanted it)............but would never do biz with them again. Just my opinion. The whole FB thing sounds a bit sketchy too.
 
seems y'all could have worked this one out on a return or whatever solution before negative feedbacks and all. so be it.
 
Maybe I should ask this in a Tech Support post, but it seems relevant here. Given this deal was completed, why would it be inappropriate for either party, or both, to leave negative feedback if they weren't happy?
 
HappyDaddy said:
Maybe I should ask this in a Tech Support post, but it seems relevant here. Given this deal was completed, why would it be inappropriate for either party, or both, to leave negative feedback if they weren't happy?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the buyer had the right to leave neg feedback, where the seller did not. The seller leaving neg feedback is retaliatory, as he is out nothing.

all negative feedback could have been avoided if better communication took place. The buyer seems to have gotten a shrug from the seller when voicing his concerns, as well as the buyer passing the blame for the blade condition to the previous owner.

in the end, the seller got what they wanted and the buyer did not get what was expected.

The only thing the buyer is unhappy about is the negative feedback.
 
RevDevil said:
Leaving retaliatory feedback now allows us to issue a temporary 90 day, yes that is (3 months).
Click to expand...


Spark has changed this to a 30 point infraction now, no expiration on the points... you earn them, you get to keep them.
 
Without seeing the original message that the buyer sent to the seller, it's hard to know if the buyer was seeking a refund or if he just expressed his disappointment and told the seller not to worry about it. The seller's response seemed sincere enough to me and based on his demeanor, I believe he would've issued a refund if the buyer had requested one. I may be completely wrong, hard to make an informed decision without all the facts from both parties involved.
 
This is a great idea
Many people have become TRIGGER happy
rather than perhaps get a MOD involved "1st"
And of course have proper communication between parties
Figure out away of being adults and working out a resolution

This has become a HOT button issue with the premature and
Often unnecessary neg feedback frenzy..

:thumbup:Bravo for the 90 days and the 30 points infraction.:thumbup:
 
Very few people chiming in here seem to be noticing the fact that:

1. In his sales post, John_0917 never said he was the first owner;

2. In his sales post, John_0917 said the knife had been lightly used;

3. It's quite possible that, looking at the edge, John_0917 reasonably thought it was fair to describe it as "factory" (he probably should have said "near-factory," but any implication that the knife hadn't been used to cut things was negated by the clear statement that it had been lightly used);

4. Flaws uncovered by a 4x jeweler's loupe are not something you can expect the average seller to know about (if the edge was obviously in bad condition as visible to the naked eye, it would be nice to see a photo);

5. SALTY gives no indication of whether he asked to return the item, or asked for a partial refund, or whatever;

6. SALTY left negative feedback first: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/itrader.php?u=378603 (John_0917 left it the next day, on 9/19).

I'm not trying to justify John_0917's negative feedback, but I don't think SALTY's description of events here is really telling it like it is.
 
Would be nice if both parties would post on the thread at this time. Only the initial one from the buyer and none from the seller.
 
Positive feedback you want to do fairly promptly(as a show of thanks), negative there is no rush. Best to wait until all avenues are exhausted before leaving it to avoid regrets latter. The administration does not seem to favor changing your mistakes in leaving negative feedback. In this case why leave it until this thread has played out. If it was me I wouldn't leave negative feedback without running it by a moderator to make sure I was in solid ground. The penalties for screwing it up are just too high, and it seems(at least from viewing it in this forum) the great majority screw it up. Luckily I have never needed to leave negative feedback.
Just saying
 
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My larger point is that I find it very difficult to understand when and why negative feedback is considered to be appropriate. The "rules" are, in my opinion, ambiguous and difficult to find, especially considering the serious ramifications if one violates them.
 
Since this has been such a big topic as of late (the whole "NIB/LNIB" and seller descriptions in general) It's kinda sad to see this still going on (not that I expected it to stop, nobody reads the "Drama" GBU anyway..)

There was a clear misrepresentation of the knife.

"Factory Edge" was stated, it is not, and the seller has admitted that after the fact.
He didn't know, or wasn't the first owner is the exact reason you can't make claims like that...

How important or significant that is depends on the buyer, but even if you think it's a small detail;

That's what YOU think, and that's fine, but you're not the buyer.
Making up facts about the condition of a knife that you can't verify will never be OK....
 
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