Mixed Josh K - Out Knife & Money

E

Ethelred

Feedback: +70 / =0 / -0
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Messages
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Right before Christmas Josh K purchased a Large Inkosi - Natural Micarta from me. I shipped the package right away to the address provided on his PayPal information. A few days later the package shows a delay, I contact Josh K, let him know what's going on before I contacted USPS. USPS claim is filed and a rep contacts me that the address on the package is undeliverable and that it will be delivered back to me.

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Now through additional involvement with the United States Postal Service by Josh K the package has been either completely lost or caught in some limbo between being redelivered to me or the final destination:

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tLabels=9505513695177357209094

I don't know where the lesson is here. With a feedback score of 52 I initially felt that a transaction with Josh K would be seamless and easy but that was the farthest thing from the truth. I'm, currently without a knife and the transaction has been reversed by PayPal so I am not also out $400.

I'm laying this out to the community, is this just the shortside of being a seller? As it stands, I left negative feedback for Josh K because it warrants it in this situation. He should have came in with his PayPal Information correct.
 
Thanks Ed for starting this with a “MIXED” flag, I was doing the same.

Here's my side as the buyer.

  • Bought a knife and had a wrong address. My fault.
  • Seller shipped the item to that address. Not sellers fault.
  • USPS lost the package. I did not request a redelivery until January 10th, 12 days after the initial delivery failed.
  • Both the seller and I have repeatedly reached out to USPS for help. I've made three in-person trips to my local USPS office and called the originating USPS office.
  • All the documentation and tracking USPS can provide, both public and from their internal system shows the package as being last scanned in New York.
  • On February 9th Ed said I should file a claim with PayPal.
  • I opened a case on February 15th.
  • PayPal decided to refund my money today and hold the seller liable.
  • I woke up to a very angry PM and very negative feedback.
I spoke with my local USPS office and they don't have the knife. I don't have the returned knife either. At this point the best recourse is to file a claim with PayPal since no one knows where the package is. They will ask for me what happened and I will submit the tracking information with the address I sent it to and then they will see the knife as missing and refund you the money, hopefully not at my expense.
Click to expand...

The accusation that I acted in some way to stall or halt the package confuses me. My intent was to get it delivered, not to malign it. However, I'll concede that a redelivery request (which I believed both the seller and I had made this request) may have some way altered the movement.

The seller shipped a package to the address in PayPal. PayPal should cover that under seller protection. Additionally USPS insurance on the package should cover this.
 
USPS, UPS, LaserShip, FedEx, Amazon hoopty delivery service are all incompetent. My cousin works at the Warrendale PA regional distribution center for USPS; he told me the other day they literally have mail-mountains piled up in the facility, his coworkers would fit better in prison cells, and they often get mail from Michigan (here outside Pittsburgh) that is destined for Detroit....

It's a shame about the wrong address; it would seem that individual is responsible regardless of USPS's judgment, and they should be the one to take the next posiyive step. Look beyond the accusation from this morning. I hope yinz work it out.
 
I don't get it. Buyer paid for a knife. Buyer never received the knife, and then received negative feedback from the seller for not receiving the knife he paid for??? Even with both buyer and seller reaching out to USPS and doing all that they can, I think a negative feedback is a little premature here...
 
To put this out here in writing before it gets lost from the first page of what might a long thread.
  • If I end up with the knife I will send Ed the money for it.
  • I have not left feedback, neutral or negative for Ed since I don't believe he's a bad person to deal with.
 
The tracking shows the package is insured. File a claim - that’s what the insurance is for. If anything, having to pay out on the insurance may motivate USPS to actually find the damn thing.

I don’t believe negative feedback is warranted here - Josh didn’t intentionally do anything to lose the package. Even if he did contact USPS to redeliver with an updated address, there’s nothing unusual or deceptive about that - it’s still USPS’ fault for losing it. I’d say at worst, this should get a mixed feedback letting future sellers know to ask Josh to verify his address before sending. Negative feedback should be reserved for actively deceptive buyers, not honest mistakes.
 
Insurance is the way to go on this one-glad you purchased it. I can't see how USPS can deny it with all the earlier contact, they know it is with them. So hopefully all you will have to deal with is value verification. With that said nothing is real easy with USPS.
If you can't get the money out of USPS, try PP seller protection. I would look up the time frame for filing now. By the time you are finished with USPS it may be too late.
Good luck
There is also a good chance USPS can find it if they put in the effort. Filing the claim will give them some incentive.
 
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I once shipped a knife to Spyderco for warranty repair. The tracking said the USPS attempted to make delivery on Saturday, but the business is closed on Saturday.

When the tracking did not show it being delivered after a couple of days, I contacted Spyderco to determine if it had been delivered. They had no record of it being received.

After the tracking showed no update for approx another week, I initiated a claim with USPS. I was contacted by someone from the the postal service who confirmed information about the claim and I believe he said I would next here from a claims examiner.

I never received any additional communication from USPS, but approx a week later I received a letter from the warranty department at Spyderco (they had my knife).

The tracking number never did show it was ever delivered.
 
Ethelred said:
A few days later the package shows a delay,

USPS claim is filed and a rep contacts me that the address on the package is undeliverable and that it will be delivered back to me.
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USPS losses package on the way back to you because buyer had a typo on address and you give buyer a NEGATIVE rating?

Not warranted.
 
The way I see buying and selling on Bladeforums is that the buyers responsibility is simple:

* Provide Funds
* Provide Shipping Address

Because the buyer provided an incorrect shipping address this transaction was doomed to failure. This was further complicated by the buyer contacting USPS for re-delivery. The buyer communicated with me that he had contacted USPS, provided a delivery address update and was told the package was to be re-delivered. Viewing the tracking history you will see that the package was marked for re-delivery on January 10th and 22nd. The communications from the buyer telling me that a re-delivery was scheduled happened on January 10th and the 22nd. I can only surmise that contacting USPS further and requested a re-delivery to an updated address prevented the package from following normal USPS procedures. Without these interjections the package would have continued the transit on its way back to me. Its not possible to say whether or not it would have been delivered but I feel like it sure would have had more success.

The buyer is not new.
The buyer has feedback for 52 transactions.
The buyer had an undeliverable address as his shipping address on PayPal for a $400 knife.

I view the buyer as the cause or at least the precipice for all the issues revolving around the fact I'm out the Large Inkosi I sent.
 
has anyone contacted usps lately and made a claim for the insurance since it hasnt been delivered and their system shows the same? or called and asked usps to do a hunt for it. i did that one time. it was stuck in the worst of the usps in south florida.....opa locka going in and out of that dist hub. guy went down the lines and found it stuck in a circle for a lack of a better term and had it ship out to me. it was a major pia, call after call....long holds and bs excuses and blowoffs etc....... to get someone to do that but i was relentless and didnt accept their blow offs until i was in contact with a problem solver...dont remember his exact title....... in that dist hub and spoke to him and he got it done.
 
Did PayPal say the buyer’s address was “confirmed” on their notification of payment received?
 
Ethelred said:
Without these interjections the package would have continued the transit on its way back to me. Its not possible to say whether or not it would have been delivered but I feel like it sure would have had more success.
Click to expand...

I waited 12 days before asking them to redeliver the package because you said it was on it's way back to you. After it did not appear and tracking did not update I asked for a redelivery. I do not believe that asking for a redelivery 12 days after a failed delivery was the cause of these problems.

Ethelred said:
The buyer is not new.
The buyer has feedback for 52 transactions.
The buyer had an undeliverable address as his shipping address on PayPal for a $400 knife.
Click to expand...

Emphasis mine

Yes, this was my a mistake. I had an incorrect address in PayPal. I take full responsibility for that and have, in my view, tried to go above and beyond in trying to find this package.

I did not open a claim until you suggested it. I contacted both USPS offices by phone and went to mine several times in person. I asked you for your originating address—you did not respond—in order to file a more accurate “missing mail” search with USPS and also provide more information to your local USPS office.

Have you filed an insurance claim with USPS?
 
jbmonkey said:
has anyone contacted usps lately and made a claim for the insurance since it hasnt been delivered and their system shows the same? or called and asked usps to do a hunt for it. i did that one time. it was stuck in the worst of the usps in south florida.....opa locka going in and out of that dist hub. guy went down the lines and found it stuck in a circle for a lack of a better term and had it ship out to me. it was a major pia, call after call....long holds and bs excuses and blowoffs etc....... to get someone to do that but i was relentless and didnt accept their blow offs until i was in contact with a problem solver...dont remember his exact title....... in that dist hub and spoke to him and he got it done.
Click to expand...
You're not the 1st to have that problem in Opa Locka and surely not the last
 
I have to say ... I understand the frustration but unless I'm missing something ... the buyer didn't scam you or cause the knife to be lost ... sadly it happens ...

And it is on the buyer to not just ship to an address but verify it is the correct address ... and for me unless I know someone a bit ... I make them update PayPal so it is the correct shipping address ... but I feel as a seller it is my place to confirm that information.

And I see no reason to warrent any negative feedback to the seller in this instance ... I'm not even sure by my understanding that any feedback should be left as technically there ended up being no deal ... knife never reached the buyer ...

so I think you issue is with the carrier and the insurance that as a seller is your responsibilty ...

I hope the knife gets found and it all works out in the end ... but think the negative feedback you should contact a mod and explain and have it removed ... unless I'm missing something the buyer did his part and never received a knife.
 
I've done some work for Canada Post, which is SIMILAR to USPS. Up here, only the shipper can change the ship-to address as they paid for the service and it is their item until successfully delivered to the delivery address. If USPS attempted re-delivery to an address provided by the receiver, then USPS is in the wrong. Period. Otherwise, it would be stupid easy for my to get everyone's packages just by calling in and saying, "oh hey... that address is wrong but it's my package... send it to my address."
Raise some hell with USPS, as the package needs to get back to the sender at this point.
 
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