Mixed Josh K - Out Knife & Money

[Boru13]

... but think the negative feedback you should contact a mod and explain and have it removed ...

The negative feedback has already been removed.

 

[Josh K]

The negative feedback has already been removed.

I appreciate that, and I (obviously) agree with this.

But just putting this out there for Ed—anyone else, I didn't ask for this to be removed and was planning to address it if and when this GB&U thread reaches a conclusion.

 

[Boru13]

But just putting this out there for Ed—anyone else, I didn't ask for this to be removed and was planning to address it if and when this GB&U thread reaches a conclusion.

No, you didn't ask for anything to be removed.

I saw the thread this morning and didn't agree with the negative feedback being left. I talked to another SuperMod and asked them to look at this and give me their thoughts... they agreed that the negative feedback was premature and unwarranted, that's why it was removed.

 

[Ethelred]

Did PayPal say the buyer’s address was “confirmed” on their notification of payment received?

I have omitted the buyers personal details, but here is how the information was presented to me:

 

[Ajack60]

This isn't the first thread in G,B & U that a knife was shipped to the wrong address, P.O. box or proxy address.
What I learned from these types of threads, always, always and I mean always get a confirmation address. Because, sometimes people forget to update their PP address.
As a buyer or seller, I will always get a shipping address to confirm it is kosher with the PP address. That way, if something is askew, it can be worked out to where the address can be updated before going any further.

 

[annr]

I have omitted the buyers personal details, but here is how the information was presented to me:

I sell a product using PayPal and above the buyer’s name, under “shipping address,” it will usually say “confirmed” (or be blank) for US sales. I believe this is the case for Canada too.

It will also say “seller protection.”

Exceptions occur when the buyer wants it shipped to a different address than the address on his PayPal account/CC? —e.g., the university library rather than his house. There is no seller protection on these sales, and it does not say “confirmed” for the address. I usually ship these anyway because they are going to university libraries.

(The third category are sales outside the US, I don’t think PayPal “confirms” these, except Canada (?) and maybe UK…), and they say “unconfirmed.”

I don’t understand why you have seller protection and the address isn’t “confirmed.”

Based on my selling, the image you posted would make me wonder if there is a mismatch between the buyer’s address on the PayPal account and the one on the sales transaction —where you sent it. Otherwise, wouldn’t it say “confirmed” above the buyer’s address?

BTW, I don’t think confirming the address pre-shipment would necessisarily have done any good because the PO would have still found it undeliverable —unless a different mail carrier would have figured something out.

Also, if I manually change the shipping address for the shipping label, I believe the seller protection is voided. So I always rely on what the buyer types in—sometimes I mention this if there is any pre-sale discussion.

 

[bhyde]

No, you didn't ask for anything to be removed.

I saw the thread this morning and didn't agree with the negative feedback being left. I talked to another SuperMod and asked them to look at this and give me their thoughts... they agreed that the negative feedback was premature and unwarranted, that's why it was removed.

I would be the other mod on this and I agree with the feedback removal.

If Josh K has had multiple deliveries to this address without issue, then all of a sudden it's a problem one time is that malice on his part?
No..not really. Not to me anyway. Obviously, he has a mistake on his address and he owns it willingly and has changed it.

This right here is why PP G&S protections exist. This right here is why you insure your packages. Unfortunately, both parties need to use these protections and file their respective claims.
Yes, it sucks..but I really don't think either party is out to screw the other. Josh seems to be fully engaged to try and get the knife in question and pay for it at that.
Trying to get a package by talking to USPS that he already paid for is probably doing the work the OP needs to do, but it's understandable.

Really not sure why this thread exists yet to be brutally honest. That is why we protect ourselves via PP G&S as well as insurance and neither party seems to have a major fault in the loss of the package. Who are we warning or informing with this thread? What's to be gained?

 

[Ethelred]

Trying to get a package by talking to USPS that he already paid for is probably doing the work the OP needs to do, but it's understandable.

You're off base if you're suggesting that I did not follow up with USPS once the package was known to be off course.

I contacted USPS and filed a claim once the package was marked as delayed in transit. I communicated this to Josh K

I received an e-mail correspondence that the claim was being investigated. This was followed up by a call from the investigator informing me that the package was en route back to me. Again, I communicated this to Josh K.

It was after these events that Josh K followed up with his involvement in contacting USPS, contacting and requesting multiple re-deliveries. If anything, Josh K contacting USPS only further complicated the matter and poisoned the situation from being handled like any other undeliverable package

edit:

 

[Ethelred]

Follow up communications with Josh K after I was contacted by USPS:

 

[Peter Hartwig]

You're off base if you're suggesting that I did not follow up with USPS once the package was known to be off course.

I contacted USPS and filed a claim once the package was marked as delayed in transit. I communicated this to Josh K

I received an e-mail correspondence that the claim was being investigated. This was followed up by a call from the investigator informing me that the package was en route back to me. Again, I communicated this to Josh K.

It was after these events that Josh K followed up with his involvement in contacting USPS, contacting and requesting multiple re-deliveries. If anything, Josh K contacting USPS only further complicated the matter and poisoned the situation from being handled like any other undeliverable package

edit:

 

[Peter Hartwig]

^^^ post was added to quote so here it is again

No matter how you got there, now it is a case of USPS loosing the package and that is the way it has to be dealt with-file the insurance claim (if you haven't). There were mistakes made. but USPS should have been able to handle it. This isn't the 1st misaddressed(actually incomplete in this case) package in history and if they couldn't handle the re-delivery they shouldn't have tried. Granted this will be some work for you, but it is what has to be done at this point.
best of luck

 

[bhyde]

You're off base if you're suggesting that I did not follow up with USPS once the package was known to be off course.

I contacted USPS and filed a claim once the package was marked as delayed in transit. I communicated this to Josh K

I received an e-mail correspondence that the claim was being investigated. This was followed up by a call from the investigator informing me that the package was en route back to me. Again, I communicated this to Josh K.

It was after these events that Josh K followed up with his involvement in contacting USPS, contacting and requesting multiple re-deliveries. If anything, Josh K contacting USPS only further complicated the matter and poisoned the situation from being handled like any other undeliverable package

edit:

No, I am not suggesting anything..merely commenting on the thread as others have been doing. @Boru13 is involved..my own involvement is a bystander at this point.
Really, I hope that both of you come out of this with your respective items.

 

[Josh K]

If anything, Josh K contacting USPS only further complicated the matter and poisoned the situation from being handled like any other undeliverable package

Ed, I think this is where you and I had a misunderstanding. I do not believe that after 12 days of no update requesting a redelivery of the package had any effect on the any future movement. They said the package was coming back to you on January 2nd. My local USPS office told me it was returned to sender immediately on December 29th. Everything we're being told by USPS indicates the package should have made it's way back to you in early January.

I opened a missing mail search (without the originating address which you did not give me) with the USPS when I opened a claim with Paypal. Reference number is 3706683. The three redelivery requests I made are NJR67499164, LOR67970640, and USR68171956. I have no idea what any of these numbers mean. The local USPS office has continued to say the package was immediately returned to sender.

At this point I think the best course of action is for you to file a missing mail search with more address information, file an insurance claim with USPS regarding the items value, and contact PayPal about why they are not covering you under the protection offered to sellers under G&S.

 

[Boru13]

@Boru13 is involved..my own involvement is a bystander at this point.

You jump right in here whenever you want


E Ethelred , I'm not trying to be an ass even though I'm sure this will sound like it. I can understand your frustration over all of this but instead of finger pointing how this is Josh's fault ( which he has readily admitted to ) and feeling like he deserves the negative feedback on his profile, perhaps it would be more beneficial to work together and try to get this resolved... just my opinion.

 

[tltt]

I'm siding with Ethelred on this.

Regardless, even if the Postal service has screwed up the the return/redelivery, it was still caused by the negligence of the buyer, and that deserves a negative. To expect the guy to eat a loss on an item worth multiple hundreds of dollars because the buyer can't get his own address right is bad enough, but then to say he can't leave a negative? Get out of here.

Ethelred, I hope you get your knife back.

 

[Casinostocks]

Josh K is indeed at fault in here more than the seller because:

1- He omitted to check his own shipping address fully to make sure that it was both correct and also complete. It is not the seller's responsibility to automatically conduct this due diligence but obviously with some buyers being negligent, a seller would be best advised to do so.

2- As the recipient (addressee) Josh K had no right to contact USPS to change anything to the original delivery as addressed because he was not left with an attempted delivery notice (that pinkish brown slip). Either the USPS employee was too stupid or Josh pretended that he was the seller because otherwise as soon as one utters that he/she is the addressee, UPS / FedEx / USPS all must defer that request to the sender!!!

So the buyer took the easy route of making an easy PP claim which he knew he would win and PP will most likely NOT protect the seller under the sellers protection policy / confirmed address / yada yada, because they will simply state that the item was never delivered.

The seller's only fault here is that he did not purchase insurance. Sometimes, Registered Mail which requires proof of delivery is a slower and more expensive method but it is the safest way of doing some shippings because someone at every USPS delivery point will have to take responsibility of taking custody of the package along its route to the addressee.

I respectfully disagree with the SuperMods sentiments that a negative feedback is not warranted but I concede that it was perhaps a bit premature. Please explain to me as to what part of the transaction bears a positive or neutral feedback if the seller followed all the rules (there is no rule in here stipulating for purchasing insurance as that part is purely elective) and at the end of the day ends up losing both his knife and also his funds based on a myriad of negligences and incompetences. This is not right!

 

[Josh K]

As an example, the address required the bolded section to be deliverable:

Josh K.
123 Broadway Fl 2
New York, NY 10000

1- He omitted to check his own shipping address fully to make sure that it was both correct and also complete. It is not the seller's responsibility to automatically conduct this due diligence but obviously with some buyers being negligent, a seller would be best advised to do so.

Agreed, I had a mistake in the shipping address.

2- As the recipient (addressee) Josh K had no right to contact USPS to change anything to the original delivery as addressed because he was not left with an attempted delivery notice (that pinkish brown slip). Either the USPS employee was too stupid or Josh pretended that he was the seller because otherwise as soon as one utters that he/she is the addressee, UPS / FedEx / USPS all must defer that request to the sender!!!

I told USPS I was the recipient. I did not “change” anything about the original delivery other than request a redelivery with the correct floor number.

So the buyer took the easy route of making an easy PP claim which he knew he would win and PP will most likely NOT protect the seller under the sellers protection policy / confirmed address / yada yada, because they will simply state that the item was never delivered.

Ed told me to make a PayPal claim. I was not taking an “easy route” through any of this. Originally I was suppose to have delivery on December 29th. I opened a PayPal claim—at Ed's prompting—on February 15th.

And to be more clear, I in no way believe Ed is at fault.

Did I have the an incorrect address in PayPal? Yes.
Did I believe that address would cause the package to be lost? Absolutely not.
Did I send the correct address to Ed immediately after sending payment and before shipping? Yes.

I'm really at a loss for what I could have done differently here other than make a mistake on the shipping address.

 

[Ethelred]

I think, for one, you could have been more forthright to PayPal about the situation and instead of simply saying "Did not receive item" you could have relayed to them that the incorrect information you provided to the seller resulted in an item being lost in transit:

 

[Casinostocks]

Ed told me to make a PayPal claim. I was not taking an “easy route” through any of this. Originally I was suppose to have delivery on December 29th. I opened a PayPal claim—at Ed's prompting—on February 15th.

And to be more clear, I in no way believe Ed is at fault.

Did I have the an incorrect address in PayPal? Yes.
Did I believe that address would cause the package to be lost? Absolutely not.
Did I send the correct address to Ed immediately after sending payment and before shipping? Yes.

I'm really at a loss for what I could have done differently here other than make a mistake on the shipping address.

Josh K, I was not aware of the bolded parts in red. If all indeed factual, I must convey my apologies for to you for making hasty conclusions and if these are the correct circumstances, the SuperMods were correct in stepping in and I would also extend my apologies to them for calling their decision too hasty on the removal of the negative, although I also did indicate that the seller was too hasty in leaving you a negative.

Personally speaking, I will not ship out a knife without signature confirmation and / or insurance (depending on the amount) no matter how much the addressee may object that he will not be available to take delivery and that would make things a true PITA. I regularly ship other items in excess of value as compared to knives, but those items can not be easily turned to cash on the street or on Craig's List. Knives are a completely different animal to deal with!

P.S. Unless the seller made the mistake of shipping it in a teeny weeny package which could easily get lost through the proverbial cracks of the return system, I expect for the package to eventually make its way back to the seller. Best of luck to both of you.

 

[Josh K]

I think, for one, you could have been more forthright to PayPal about the situation and instead of simply saying "Did not receive item" you could have relayed to them that the incorrect information you provided to the seller resulted in an item being lost in transit:

USPS lost the item and everything you provided provided PayPal was accurate.

Have you reached out to USPS for insurance or missing mail?

Have you reached out to PayPal why they aren't covering you with seller protection?