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Well said!
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Junk Steel
- Thread starter bld522
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Well said!
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Well as another thread just inspired me- I really dislike D2... The corrosion resistance is horrible, and the prices some manufacturers are demanding when clearly better tool steel alternatives are available boggles my mind. At least go PD1!
I'm not complaining on it's use in a composite leek at that price point, but a $300+ folder in it I just can't understand.
I'm not complaining on it's use in a composite leek at that price point, but a $300+ folder in it I just can't understand.
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Nothing? Elmax is good to go? That's good news.
It's working great for me in a sample of 1: ZT 0566. Primarily used on cardboard and plastic, very light prying (plastic plug fasteners from boards, mostly). No rope cutting or wet work at the mall.
Trying it out on a TiSpine, but I'm on my first day back at work after getting it while on jury duty.
I'm curious to know what thread you are referring to. There was a thread here a little while ago specifically regarding the corrosion resistance of D2. The consensus was that it did a good job of resisting rust/corrosion (it is a semi-stainless steel after all). I was one of the people who commented from personal experience that my D2 knife has never rusted. And that's despite years of use, and frequent exposure to sweat and hand oil.
Do you have any personal experience with a knife made of D2? If yes, I'm curious to know which one.
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yes actually my d2 leek- it was cheap enough so i didnt sweat the rust spots but it was enough to turn me off from buying a more expensive blade using the same steel... ive also since seen many charts showing pd1, niolox and sleepner being better than d2 all around.
oh the thread i was reffering to was the "overpriced fixed blades" one today
I can certainly see how a bad experience would affect your buying preferences. I might be inclined to feel the same way. Especially if rust-prevention was important and the knives made of that particular steel were expensive.
I have no experience with those other steels. Heck, I don't think I've ever even heard of them (I don't stay up to date on recent steel developments). The last "super-steel" I bought was S30V (back when that was considered the latest super-steel). I wouldn't be at all surprised if there are steels that perform "better" than D2. But I'm happy with D2, it serves my needs just fine without complaint.
Different strokes. Having a variety of options is always a good thing.
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I'm not much of a snob. Especially since blade grind has a lot to do with overall cutting ability, wear resistance. Last summer I did a cutting/usage test. Chisel ground serrated Byrd Cara Cara 2 vs Spyderco Domino's cts xhp carpenters steel. Cara Cara 2 kicked Domino's butt in cutting course plant material.
I have a spyderco dodo made with s30v. At first I thought it was a useless knife, stuff gets in the ball bearing lock, it has no straight point . . .
At work though it's practically indispensable. Actually it IS indispensable, I got another! Its not so much the steel as the shape. It's not long and pointy so it doesn't scare the sheeple I use it to open boxes and remove labels so I can see what's underneath.
I work in a lab so it's not really "heavy use" except for opening all those boxes. It's the serrated version and can always open a box. I use a sharpamaker to keep those serrations sharp. The straight part on the end is so sharp it went through my scrubs and make a matching shallow cut on the skin beneath
I didn't feel a thing!That's my only experience with that steel. Oddly enough I have an old brass bolstered kabar folder with 1095 steel. I hated it. I could never get it really really sharp. Not sure what the problem was, I had not trouble with other knives. I avoid 1095 steel.
My D2 bark rivers can skin and dress several deer without needing stropping. Not sure if it's the steel, the heat treat, or the grind but they are my favorite fixed blades.
I have a spyderco dodo made with s30v. At first I thought it was a useless knife, stuff gets in the ball bearing lock, it has no straight point . . .
At work though it's practically indispensable. Actually it IS indispensable, I got another! Its not so much the steel as the shape. It's not long and pointy so it doesn't scare the sheeple I use it to open boxes and remove labels so I can see what's underneath.
I work in a lab so it's not really "heavy use" except for opening all those boxes. It's the serrated version and can always open a box. I use a sharpamaker to keep those serrations sharp. The straight part on the end is so sharp it went through my scrubs and make a matching shallow cut on the skin beneath
That's my only experience with that steel. Oddly enough I have an old brass bolstered kabar folder with 1095 steel. I hated it. I could never get it really really sharp. Not sure what the problem was, I had not trouble with other knives. I avoid 1095 steel.
My D2 bark rivers can skin and dress several deer without needing stropping. Not sure if it's the steel, the heat treat, or the grind but they are my favorite fixed blades.
1095 is easy to sharpen. Make sure you're hitting the apex on both sides.
My Queen mini trapper in D2 gets lots of tiny corrosion pitting spots on both blades.
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How is it being used and maintained?
I have much more corrosion-pron knives that have no pitting after decades of use outdoors. But I wipe them dry when I'm done and oil them when I get home.
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PD#1 in most cases will have less corrosion resistance than D2, and CPM D2 like the Leek. Niolox is a stainless and not as tough or wear resistant as PD#1. The steels are all pretty different and not similar except that they are good steels and sometimes used in cutlery. Strange comparisons. It's like comparing BMW, Ford Truck, and a Suzuki road bike. Different uses . Throw in the differences that come from how they are heat treated and tempered and it's difficult to see comparison.
Their attributes are balanced out so differently calling one better or worse can only mean you for your uses. That's what better or worse is though. Subjective.
joe
Their attributes are balanced out so differently calling one better or worse can only mean you for your uses. That's what better or worse is though. Subjective.
joe
It never gets wet. It got that way from being carried during the summer and probably from being handled. I wipe the blades off with my shirt or a clean rag/paper towel or something after use. In the past I oiled the blades but it made no difference so I stopped. By tiny pitting I mean really very tiny, very shallow spots, like if I used the tip of a thin needle to make small indentations into a soft material. It's very minor but it's there. Flitz doesn't remove it.
I have another Queen knife in D2 that I carried and used only a handful of times. It has no corrosion at all. Hot, humid summers in the great plains have caused most of my blades to show corrosion spots from just being carried in my jeans pocket. CPM-M4 got a bunch of surface rust from being in my pocket for 2 hours outside. Kershaws with their horrible bead blasting in 14c28n, 8cr and even the bead blasted elmax on the speedform 2 all developed surface rust within a couple hours. My Domino in CTS-XHP even developed surface rust in my pocket from carrying it in the summer. I clean them all up with Flitz and they're fine, but basically every steel I've used except for H1 will rust in the summer if I'm carrying it in my jeans pocket outside.
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I'm comparing the properties that steel is judged on like wear resistance, corrosion resistance, toughness, edge retention, etc ... Each is a steel used in a potential EDC knife, so all have the same use for me in terms of needing an all around knife. I don't see how that's apples to oranges. Also, PD1 and D2 are both tool steels so that's a very fair comparison.
A quick google search pulled this off of ZKnives which also compares each to D2:
1) PD1(Carpenter) - Carpenter Technologies proprietary cold work tool steel. Better wear resistance and toughness than that of D2 tool steel.
2) Niolox - Supposed to have AISI D2 like wear resistance, and better edge stability.
3) Sleipner - Modification of the classic AISI D2 tool steel. Sleipner has improved toughness compared to D2, good wear and chipping resistance
Agreed on heat treat playing a role, but based on the above findings of each steel- it seems that properly heat treating each leaves D2 in last place (based on my needs of versatility). Taking my isolated rust situation out of the equation and basing it solely on being charged similar prices between Brous in D2, DPX in Niolox or Sleipner, or Strider in PD1- I'll repeat my initial thought of saying I don't understand why D2 is being used in high priced knives when better steel options exist.
Even with using typically subjective words like better & worse, when data shows D2 has lower wear resistance and toughness than the others, "better than D2" becomes an objective statement within the context of the measured criteria. Now if you don't believe that data & source- that's a different story and a different conversation.
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Unless you are deceased, and it seems unlikely, you perspire all the time, to one extent or another. "Sweat" is the same salinity as seawater.
The knife I mentioned was a fixed blade, so no pocket time.
I have carried the same SAK "Farmer" in my pocket every day for nine years here in Ohio, and the only problem is lint.
So, as we hear repeatedly, not all stainless steel is equally stain resistant.
Your experience of knives in your pocket is obviously your best guide.
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a "good" steel heat treated then tempered bad becomes bad. a "bad" steel heat treated & tempered correctly can be really good.
I spent about 7 years dealing with titanium & steels for the products I was designing. I just want to ask a very simple question, who is verifying these steels? It's very expensive to send steels to a lab for verification. I'm not saying the makers are putting incorrect steels, I'm saying where they get it from may not be verified. It has happened where we specified 17-4 and got returns on our products for failure. The geometry face was cracking during impact when every FEA analysis I did said the design should pass. On top of that parts where rusting like crazy. After we sent sample to a research lab, it turns out the material wasn't even a stainless. I confronted the factory with the results and they "launched an investigation". after a week they told me they used the wrong material batch. Refunded us hundreds of thousands of dollars...
I got some steel in and cleaned them, wiped off the markings and couldn't tell what was elmax or s35vn. It's pretty easy to do. I'm not accusing anyone or anything like that, I'm just concerned that it's rather easy to mix up stainless steels. I can etch whatever I want on a blade, that doesn't mean its correct.
The jist of this is that I don't think you should blanket say you stay away from a steel because of a name. It may just be the batch or the maker.
I spent about 7 years dealing with titanium & steels for the products I was designing. I just want to ask a very simple question, who is verifying these steels? It's very expensive to send steels to a lab for verification. I'm not saying the makers are putting incorrect steels, I'm saying where they get it from may not be verified. It has happened where we specified 17-4 and got returns on our products for failure. The geometry face was cracking during impact when every FEA analysis I did said the design should pass. On top of that parts where rusting like crazy. After we sent sample to a research lab, it turns out the material wasn't even a stainless. I confronted the factory with the results and they "launched an investigation". after a week they told me they used the wrong material batch. Refunded us hundreds of thousands of dollars...
I got some steel in and cleaned them, wiped off the markings and couldn't tell what was elmax or s35vn. It's pretty easy to do. I'm not accusing anyone or anything like that, I'm just concerned that it's rather easy to mix up stainless steels. I can etch whatever I want on a blade, that doesn't mean its correct.
The jist of this is that I don't think you should blanket say you stay away from a steel because of a name. It may just be the batch or the maker.
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