Just a thought about Case

jackknife said:
I can only wonder if it's time that case went the route of Victorinox, and invested in some new machinery. I know that on these kinds of threads, Victorinox is very often mentioned as having great fit and finish. I remember reading some years ago that Victorinox took a major step some years ago, and bought all new machines of the very latest CNC high speed manufactoring centers. I hope Case is not going the way of Schrade and Camillus, keeping on trying to produce top quality knives on outdated equiptment. I love Case, and would hate to see them slip down the ladder.
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I have to agree with that.

If I was sure of what I was getting, I would buy nothing but CASE. I have carried and used CASE knives since the early 70's.

While I don't have any problems buying from another country (Germany, Italy, Japan, China, etc.), I would really like to buy American.

To me, CASE was always the GREAT AMERICAN FOLDER. You could buy their knife sight unseen, and know you bought a winner. My most prized pocket knife is an old CASE copperhead I bought about '72. Honestly, (no kidding here!) it could be a mid range custom knife. I have used it so much the back of the blade is mushrooming out a tiny bit where it hits the springs.

But even at that, the blade locks up solidly, still has good (no longer great) snap, the pivot pin is coming out of one side of the bolster, the bone (was red) is dark brown and very smooth, it has more years of work left in it than I have.

But I don't know what happened to the CASE knives of today. I would buy a CASE now in a hearbeat if I could see it, open it, and look at it, but having sent a couple back that I purchased online, I have moved on to other manufacturers.

It is disappointing to think that CASE isn't keeping up with today's standards on many of their knives. Personally (I know there are those that disagree!) I don't think I should buy a knife and have the possibility looming of having to send it to them to "make it right". If they can do it, why didn't they? I don't like explaining to my fellow knife guys that "I bought it for a work knife, so no big deal that the pieces don't match up".

For the same money as CASE, there are other American (thinking Queen here) manufacturers that turn out great products.

Worse, I got a couple of Chinese made Remingtons from my niece at Christmas from my young niece. They were in a package at a local sporting goods store, and she bought a large stockman and a peanut for $19.95. The "worse" part is that they are very nicely fitted and finished. The blades all pull the same, when opened there is no protrusion of the springs from the handles or liner. It is nearly perfect along the spine when closed and the back almost looks like the springs and liners are one piece of metal. Excellent snap, good edge holding, and great ergos.

Yet, I still can't get my head around a Chinese stockman... I don't carry it.

I am not sure why, but it seems wrong. I don't have any problems with my other utility bought foreign knives, but damnit, a traditional folder should be American to ride well in my pocket. And sadly, I do think it should be like 40 years ago when I could go to the hardware store and the only problem I had with CASE was deciding which one to get.

The Chinese gift knives were $10 a piece. It makes me wonder why CASE can't make a reliably built product that exhibits the fit and finish we want when they sell for 4,5,6 or more times that much. I think all of us here would gladly pay more to get more, mainly because as it is we are paying more to get less. We all hear of the wonderful knives that guys get that are near perfect on this forum, but yet when I talk to some of the dealers, they tell me that some batches of CASE just aren't up to snuff. They steer me to other brands. Also, the observations and concerns posted in this thread are echoed by many others in the knife community.

The moment CASE regains themselves, I will be a big supporter. Thankfully, I have several now and can wait. In the mean time there are so many other choices now I just hope CASE doesn't join the "I remember when those were good knives" group.

Robert
 
I agree that Vics are designed for production and involve about zero hand fitting. Case knives not so much. I think the other issue is QC/inspection. The Chinese knives probably have a huge reject rate especially those sold by Buck for example (quite nice in my exp as well as rough riders). Case can't afford to throw away 25% of their production like the heathen chinee. They probably let some stuff through as a business decision that they'd rather not. Queen is not a lot better than Case in my experience but has a LOT smaller line to control.

One problem I have had with Chinese knives are unseen defects namely the failed spring. I've never had a US knife with a failed spring except an Ulster Scout when I half opened blades on the same spring for cleaning when I was about 10.
 
Well, when all is said and done, Case after how many years of production is still around and apparently going strong while Camillus, Schrade, and others (talking about the old U.S. companies) have gone by the wayside. I guess I've been lucky. I've never bought a Case knife that was just awful that had to be returned to either a dealer or the factory. Sure, I've gotten a few over the years with a small glitch but nothing to turn my nose up at. Now those years I'm talking about range from the late 1940s right up through today and over those years, I've bought a lot of knives.

Are Case knives perfect? Heck no!! But as a rule they are good, solid, work horses.

When you consider the millions of knives manufactured by Case and the miniscule number of complaints by those of us in this forum and other forums, I'd say Case will be around for a long time -- at least I hope so.
 
Well guys I got my congress in the mail today. All I can say about it is WOW. The stag looks great on both sides. The blades and back springs meet pretty flush. I mean it's not seemless like most customs, but for a production knife it is very nice. The grinds are pretty good except on the main spear point blade which is more of a shallow sheeps foot (a little TLC will fix that).

One question for those with congress knives. Are the nail nick hard to get to on the two larger blades? The large spear and sheeps foot have long nail pulls, but only about an 1/8 shows (covered by the smaller blades).
 
Now it's nail nicks/pulls. Post some pictures so we can see exactly what you're talking about now. I'm wondering if you'll ever be satisfied with this knife. Give it a chance now that you've got it back. From your description it reads like they did a great job of resolving your issues.

Enjoy your knife.
 
Modoc ED said:
Now it's nail nicks/pulls. Post some pictures so we can see exactly what you're talking about now. I'm wondering if you'll ever be satisfied with this knife. Give it a chance now that you've got it back. From your description it reads like they did a great job of resolving your issues.

Enjoy your knife.
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Unless I'm mistaken, its not the same knife. The one he sent back was a peanut, the one he just received is a congress...
 
Correct, this is the new knife I bought. The peanut is still at the factory.

Will post pictures later. I have been outside using the new congress to take cutting of some plants. It slices great!
 
johnwaynesandw said:
Correct, this is the new knife I bought. The peanut is still at the factory.

Will post pictures later. I have been outside using the new congress to take cutting of some plants. It slices great!
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Well, all I can say is; "Kick me in the butt as I deserve it".:foot: I could claim a brain fart or even being senile but the plain truth in this case is stupidity -- just plain stupidity. Nothing to say but -- "Sorry".

Good luck with the Congress -- knife I mean, not those idiots in Washington, D.C..
 
That's a nice looking knife. I do see what you were saying about the nail nicks but I'd think there is enough room to get your fingernail into the nick in order to open the blades. I've got a stockman that is kinda the same. Of course if you're like me and have short nails, anything like that can be a chore.
 
artmichalek said:
That's not really a fair generalization. I think about Case's lineup into three categories; working knives (the G10 and delrin/cv knives really do represent a solid performance value), specialty runs (like the Bose collaborations and exotic metal series which are close to custom quality), and trinket knives. Unfortunately that third group gets most of the attention, and while I find most of them distasteful I can't fault the business strategy. We can all admit that traditional pocket knives have somewhat limited appeal to modern customers. Case was smart enough to realize that if you can't find more customers, you have to find customers who will make a lot of repeat purchases. Those customers are keeping that factory open and allowing them to make some occasionally phenomenal products.
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This sounds true. I like the Bose collaborations-really excellent knives. I like the holiday knives and different handles and all the fun stuff, just to collect. I wouldn't be a knife collector if I only had one knife, would I?

On the other hand, my everyday carry knife is a cv yellow medium stockman, which gets a lot of use.
 
That coping blade is a little proud. You might be able to lower it a bit ny carefully filing down the kick if it becomes an issue. Might make it a lil more comfy to hold. Looks like there's a notch in the handle so you can still get at it.
 
Gmountain said:
This sounds true. I like the Bose collaborations-really excellent knives. I like the holiday knives and different handles and all the fun stuff, just to collect. I wouldn't be a knife collector if I only had one knife, would I?

On the other hand, my everyday carry knife is a cv yellow medium stockman, which gets a lot of use.
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Thats what its all about.... Collect what you like.
 
Case makes some good functional knives IMHO; but they are also the "beanie baby" producer of knives - anything that will sell to the "collector market". A zillion variations on the same model, so "collectors" have to have them all. Remember the basic rule: if it's made to be collectible, it isn't.

Rich S
 
That's some decent colour and texture to that stag John:thumbup:

Interesting question about those blades on a Congress. I suppose being a 4 blade knife in a relatively small frame, it's always going to pose problems with 'access' to the nail nicks.

I have only two Congress knives a Böker carbon and an RR stainless. The Böker has 2 Sheepfoot blades,1 Pen, 1 Coping. All easy to get at and the snap is heavy, surprising on a Böker. The RR's configuration is 1 Spear,2 Pen and a slim Sheepfot that's more Wharncliffe. The pen on the spear side is tricky to get at, perhaps having Spear blades in a Congress makes it more tricky?
 
Its pretty clear Case is using very worn dies to stamp out their blades and hardware. Looking at the amount of distortion and roughness of the edges, there can be no other conclusion.

I think Case is up against the wall with competition from Chinese made folders that look equally nice with better F+F. Case might be relying on the fact that lots of Americans like to buy American but we all knew how that panned out with cars, TVs and cameras.
 
Not just Case that has fit & finish foibles. I've bought knives from Boker, Queen, Schatt & Morgan, Weidsmansheil, Bulldog, Schrade, Ulster, Utica, Remington, Buck, Kershaw, Camillus, etc, both older and newer manufacture, that have had soft springs, dragging and rubbing blades, roughly shaped tangs, lopsided grinds, poor edges, poor fits of scales, protruding or sunken rivets and pins, gritty action, no snap, cracks in the handles, burred edges, protruding and sunken springs, and various other little troubles. That's one HUGE reason I hate buying any knives sight unseen; there are just too many things that can be wrong with any particular knife, regardless of builder. Some little niggling things can be lived with, some cannot.
 
My experience too Phil. But, I'm usually lucky on-line and as I live outside the US I can't buy direct in person.

Shing, looking at some pictures of equipment used in the CASE factory, you may have a point. As Jackknife mentioned, CASE may need to invest somewhat (if the Bean Counters&banks will let them).
 
Phil in Alabama said:
Not just Case that has fit & finish foibles. I've bought knives from Boker, Queen, Schatt & Morgan, Weidsmansheil, Bulldog, Schrade, Ulster, Utica, Remington, Buck, Kershaw, Camillus, etc, both older and newer manufacture, that have had soft springs, dragging and rubbing blades, roughly shaped tangs, lopsided grinds, poor edges, poor fits of scales, protruding or sunken rivets and pins, gritty action, no snap, cracks in the handles, burred edges, protruding and sunken springs, and various other little troubles. That's one HUGE reason I hate buying any knives sight unseen; there are just too many things that can be wrong with any particular knife, regardless of builder. Some little niggling things can be lived with, some cannot.
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Most of the time served cutlers who would have fixed most of these problems have long retired or not allowed enough time to do their jobs properly.

Sheffield cutlers could take a bunch of handmade parts and make really nice folders with good F+F because they were skilled and had the time to do it. These handmade parts needed a lot of filing and fitting because they were not very accurately made. Anyone who has handled a good quality old Sheffield made folder can testify to that.

Victorinox have taken a different approach by making precision parts which come together very easily and dosen't require a lot of handwork.

Case and some of the other makers mentioned seem to have gone down the middle with not very accurately made parts and not a lot of skilled handwork to make them fit.
 
so if the Case/Bose collaborations are top of the line where do the damascus bladed versions fall in at? I have been looking at a couple of patterns online but if i'm going to spend that much i want it perfect. Heck even if i were buying a regular model i would want it perfect too.
 
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