just in: emmerson commander

[John Hollister]

Without getting too deep, I think the point was that whenever you see mention of "Quality Control Issues" with Emerson knives, you see the same people over and over. Our little Anonymous little, video game named buddy just happened to be handy. I'll stand behind what I say, but there again, I put my name on my posts and people can feel free to e-mail me about my views or catch me at a show where I'll be happy to talk to them (You'll know me, I'll have "John Hollister" on my name tag).

As has been shown time and time and time again, there are a few people that may have gotten a knife that slipped through that shouldn't have. But how many people have sent them back for repair? We've seen many examples of folks posting they had a problem, only to get it resolved immediately by EKI when they are contacted. We're talking about a company that ships (aka sells) THOUSANDS of knives a month. Month after month, year after year. But because four or five people post REPEATEDLY, it a proven track record of "quality control problems". PLEASE!

As Cougar Allen has pointed out, it's not just EKI that takes black eyes from the same bunch of people over and over. No company is safe from kids with computers. Two companies come to mind that have received "Excellence in Manufacturing" awards time and time again, but even they take in the shorts from anonymous, aliased folks on occasion.

Just my opinion . . . . John Hollister

 

[komondor]

Originally posted by Cougar Allen
I ordered a knife from Fubar and it arrived promptly and the knife has absolutely nothing wrong with it!!! Surely that proves beyond any possible doubt that Fubar has never had any so-called "quality control problems." What's wrong with you people? Your petty vendetta against Fubar only proves that you're a ****load of mother****ing ****-eating ****ing jealous whiners. If all the satisfied customers of Fubar posted they would actually outnumber the ****ing whiners! What more proof could you ask for?

I agree. The proponents of Fubar would greatly outnumber the opponents. So why are a certain few here getting so defensive and thin-skinned in defending Fubar if the reputation of the company is without question? Hmmmm..........

I hear a lot of people, and I mean a lot more than Fubar, bashing Mubar from Oregon. I have ocassionally done it myself, and I own one of their flagship blades....and I love it. You know why they get bashed? Because their QC is, without question, suspect. And sometimes sending a knife back to the manufacturer is not going to fix the problem. That's sometimes the case with anything, not just knives.

If the situation arises in a thread, and someone has had bad luck with a particular product, it is only natural that someone is going to make unfavorable comments in regards to the knife. Like I said earlier, all viewpoints need to be presented.

 

[Brigadier]

I've owned over 20 different Emerson knives, NEVER have I had a problem. As of right now, I currently own 13, the others were given away or traded away. I used to own BM's, but now I currently only own two, and one is in my junk drawer where it belongs.

RS, who do you work for? Benchmade? Microtech? REKAT? I'm just curious. So tell us what do YOU carry on a daily basis? I can't ever remember you fessing up to what you carry? Or are you just a professional troll?

 

[Sergiusz Mitin]

Excuse me Friends, but don't you think this thread went out of any norm of politeness from both sides? No matter who is right...

If I would be this Forum Moderator I would close it now. Thank God I'm not...

 

[Sirius]

Post #3... Maybe it's just because it is about Emerson, or perhaps it is because I bought my buddy, the Regional Security Officer here, an Emerson Commander and I told him I felt it was one of the best tacticals in the world today...Whatever reason, I am following this thread with interest. Being new to the Forums I would like to second Brigadier and ask what RS carries, as a matter of fact, I would like to know what many of those writing in carry - both pro and con, but especially those with comments like: "Maybe the SEAL teams do use them, and NASA also, but I can pretty much promise you they don't get the same knives I can buy in my local store, or even off of the internet". I would like to know what those knives are - not because I doubt anyone, but because if there are great knives out there - then everyone should know about it - share!

 

[Commanderfan]

Virtually none of any of the 'problems' you might hear about are more than isolated cases. Emerson's are not different from any other mechanical item or other such items that are simultaneously high-end and large production volume products. Despite superior quality control procedures, all are subject to minor manufacturing inconsistencies and technical glitches. It is virtually impossible to find any premium brand of technical product that at least a few people have not had a problem with. The real advantage is Ernest Emerson's personal values that seep down into his organization to try to satisfy any customers complaint.

Now I don't know how many knives EKI manufactures a month but it was commented that they ship thousands. To give some perspective to the issue, consider for the sake of illustration that Emerson manufactures 3000 knives a month. That would be 36,000 a year and 108,000 over three years. Even if they have an astronomically high 99% perfection rate (since actual perfection rates are not published. 99% is purely an example of an extremely high perfection rate), that means that over the past three years, 1080
knives may have been sold with imperfections that might need to be addressed.

Most of the people you see posting on this forum have bought at least one and
frequently more new knives over the years. When these people mention any bugs they experienced,
you are seeing a sampling of problems across a huge number of knives and a large number of years. Certainly any brand will have some reported problems. But given the relatively small number of problems mentioned of Emerson's and most other premium knives in these forums, that sampling rate proves that these knife manufacturers have an excellent success rate. The unfortunate but inevitable imperfections
appear to be at an extreme minimum and are normally addressed through customer service. EKI appears to take that one step further by offering to repair, adjust or make good a problem you have experienced even after the knife has seen hard use.

Occasionally an unhappy customer of a product will post an anti-company propaganda web
site to harass the company or post anti-company listings on a discussion forum.
Despite a lot of emotional wording, these crusades attempting to scare people away from
the company's products are seldom based on anything more than an isolated case of
customer confusion/dissatisfaction or mishandled customer service. Some continue to post disparaging information long after the issue was amicably resolved with the manufacturer. Still,
some continue to post disparaging information even after a company has addressed a systemic
production problem with it's products.

So do not let any isolated complaints or problem reports scare you off any of these fine
knives. For every isolated problem reported for a top brand knife, there are thousands of
satisifed owners who never experience any difficulties. Many of these satisfied people
purposely seek out and rely on Emerson's when they could have any choice in the world.

 

[Ken Cook]

<b>Sirius,</b>

Welcome to BFC! Glad you decided to register and join in.

I carry two knives edc. An RH EKI Commander and a waved RH EKI CQC-7b set up for left hand reverse draw.

<b>Sergiusz,</b>

You're right. Courtesy went out the window when Rogue_Spear chose to call me names and insinuated that I am crazy rather than address the issue I confronted him with. I however, am not offended as I recognized this for the distraction tactic it is. I also don't see anything posted as of yet that would merit closing the thread.

<b>Brigadier,</b>

I guarantee you Rogue_Spear does not work for REKAT.

<b>John Hollister,</b>

You're absolutely right. I have nothing personal against Rogue_Spear, he just happened to be handy. I'd noticed lately that he'd been provoking a lot of EKI bashing lately and out of curiousity, did a search on his past threads to see if there was a consistent pattern.
There was.
I pointed it out.

<b>el cid,</b>

I know you've had problems with EKI in the past, I've read and responded to some of your posts about them. No you do not hate them, no you do not have something personal against Ernie Emerson, and no you do not make it a personal mission to stop people from buying them.

But Rogue_Spear apparently does. This is why he was "singled out." I think it's entirely fair. What did I do that was so unfair? Confront him with his past track record? Holding someone accountable for their words may be harsh, but it's entirely fair.

<b>Cougar,</b>

I'd never be so foolish as to say no sub-standard knife ever makes it off the Shipping dock at EKI or any OTHER knife maker.

My point is that other makers, say, Buck Knives for example, do not have to contend with a small core of vindictive attackers who will bad mouth them EVERY SINGLE TIME the name "Buck" is mentioned in General forum.

<b>mikemck</b>

Nowhere in my posts do I now, or have I ever said or implied that Rogue_Spear is the only person complaining about EKI.

Quote,
<b>"There are several people that have problems with Emerson knives, and I happen to be one of them."</b>

And among those several people, every single one of them that sent their knife back for repair got excellent customer service and came away a satisfied customer. This is how it's supposed to work.
If you buy a new car and it's not right, do you take it in and get it fixed or do you just park it in the back yard, (junk drawer) never drive it again, and spend countless hours complaining about the maker of that car?
What would you call a person who did that?
Why is it different when it's a knife?

<b>Bors</b>
I agree, sometimes you get an EKI knife that is something less than razor sharp out of the box. This is true of almost every knife maker, but there are those that are willing to forgive this from other makers, but it's considered reason to castrate EKI. I don't think that's fair, and I suspect that you probably don't either.

Qoute,
<b>"I would have to say (based on my experience) that the Emmerson Commander is like a bottle of wint it seems to get better with age. To fully appreciat this knife it needs to be used. After a little ageing and tinkering I am quite happy."</b>

You did a little more "tinkering" than most people do, most are happy to leave the chisel edge on there, but if it doesn't suit you as is, by all means change it! You are the sort of person that EKI knives are made for. You set it up the way you like it, and you bought it to use it! Glad you like it.

<b>komondor</b>
Rogue_Spear is not being particularly singled out. See my comments to John Hollister above.

But when the issue of EKI QC comes up, you see many of the same names over and over and over again. One person says "Hey, I just bought an EKI and there's something wrong with it." and suddenly there is this core group of 10 people or so, who want to jump in and start pounding on EKI.

Is it a QC issue if some guy bought the knife two years ago and has been ranting and raising hell about it ever since?

Yes, if you go back through the forums, you might find a hundred people who bought an EKI and were unhappy with it. But the true question is, how many thousands have bought them and are PERFECTLY happy with them? How many out of that hundred sent their knives back and got them fixed quickly, courteously, and correctly? And finally, how many just love to attack EKI for the sake of attacking EKI.
If Emerson knives were as bad as the people like Rogue_Spear insist they are, Ernie Emerson would no longer be in the knife business. That's a fact.

<b>Rogue_Spear,</b>
I'm aware there are several (I would not choose the word "many") people who have had problems with EKI knives.

As a matter of fact, I know about OwenM's dealings with EKI very well. I will not discuss it because it is a private matter between Owen and myself and I do not know that he wants me to discuss it.
Suffice it to say, we've talked on the phone a few times, exchanged emails, and I don't feel he has any issues with Emerson. I don't think he ever did. He just got a knife that he felt was not acceptable.
THAT HAPPENS!
When it does, the proper thing to do is send it back to the maker and give them a chance to make it right, instead of deciding to go on a long term smear campaign against that maker.

Whether it's EKI, Spyderco, BM, Buck, REKAT, I don't care who it is, occasionally a knife that isn't totally up to par is going to get through to the customer. That's human nature. No one is perfect, we all make mistakes. However, you seem determined to make EKI pay for a minor mistake for the rest of your life, and God help the poor soul who dares point this out to you or anyone else.
For their temerity, you will call them idiots, you'll say they're insane, you'll try to say they call honest men liars (and are therefore, by extension, a liar!) You're going to twist their words out of all context.

Last of all, YES!
I say there is no QC problem with EKI!
Now does this mean that NO bad knife ever leaves EKI?
No.

One below par knife out of every thousand or so is not a QC Problem, it's not even a TREND!

The term "QC Problem" carries the connotation that sub-standard is the NORM and acceptable knives are rarely seen. I do not believe this to be the case where Emerson Knives Incorportated is concerned.

Obviously, neither do the vast majority of knife buyers. Otherwise they'd be out of business.

You know...
You make a big deal out of the fact that one can search through General and find a lot of posts about how crappy Emerson Knives are.

What you fail to mention, is that many of those posts belong to you or others just like you. Even the links you put in your first post refered back to your own prior posts!
You can post and say "Emerson sucks" a million times, but it's still doesn't make it a trend.
"Emerson sucks"
Are you KIDDING?
Yeah, I'm going to pass on Emerson knives because Rogue_Spear says they suck.

I don't have to defend my position. Your posts do it for me!
To anyone reading this and still wondering, I offer a challenge.
Go back and do a search on Rogue_Spear's posts and see just how many of them are baseless, groundless attacks on Emerson. How many of them say something along the lines of "Emerson sucks" or "Poor quality = Emerson Knives" yet provide absolutely no factual basis for their attacks.

Do a search on my posts if you like. You'll find absolutely no attacks on any maker. Why? Because I don't believe any of the well known and popular makers really HAVE a QC problem right now. I did, once in the past, mention that Benchmade had a problem with inconsistent heat treat for awhile. Do I talk about it still? No. Why? Because I haven't bought a new Benchmade in a long time, I don't know if they have QC problems or not and will not sit here and berate them without knowing what I'm talking about.

The Bottom Line.

Many people come here, not as regular members, but only occasionally. They do not follow the threads as some of us do, they only read what they are interested in and go about their business.

These people see dozens of posts about poor quality from EKI (or any other maker) and think, "Gee, I won't buy one of those!" never knowing that they're seeing nothing more than the almost monthly gathering of the same old people, posting the same old vague and general complaints, about a knife they bought God knows how long ago.

It's not right and it's not fair.
So why do I come in here and devote all this time to it?
Because I cannot sit by and watch a good company be damaged by such "insightful" and "detailed" criticism as "Emerson sucks."

Be glad I'm not Ernie Emerson or the owner of "Brand X (the other good maker you love to bash).

If I were, I'd be suing you for wrongful damages. All the proof needed is sitting right here in these forums just waiting to be gathered up and taken to court.

It seems that Ernie's a better man than I am though.
Lucky you.

 

[Aphthartos]

It's funny how people don't get so emotional over Microtech, REKAT and Spyderco's QC problems. Maybe it does have something to do with the "#1 hard use knife in the world" line, maybe people expect more than they get, and maybe they should. I can't be the judge of that. Give me ANY production knife, let me handle it for 5 minutes and 95% of the time I'll find something wrong with it. Give me a week with it and I'll find a problem 100% of the time. Usually they're minor and really no big deal, but the major ones I have fixed or fix myself. All my Emerson "QC" problems have been about readjusting the position of the liners, scales, or checking the tightness of the screws on the knife. My problems with Microtech and Spyderco, however, have been bad sharpening jobs(totally trashed edge bevels which I can't repair), riveted together knives that are too tight, too loose, warped. I dropped my LCC on my hardwood floor and the liner lock got so badly readjusted I had to loosen everything and tweak it back to it's original position. Nothing more or less than I've had to do with the so-called "QC problems" with my emersons.

Go ahead and complain, those of us who are tired of the redundancy can ignore the posts, but at least try to gain some perspective, and let's act like grown-ups here.

 

[Eric Blair]

This is a good thread for two reasons.
1. I like Commanders quite a bit.
2. I like trolls.

Trolls are like the varmints that sometimes cross my fenceline. Sometimes I simply watch them to learn their behavior because it's important to know how the enemy thinks and how the enemy reacts.
And other times I don't have time for the varmints so I just pop their heads off with my Steyr AUG and let them lay to rot so that the other trolls....err..varmints have something parasite infested to eat.
Either way they're at the bottom of the food chain, and eventually they all rot.
This thread is full of trolls. Happy rotting!

rogue-spear, Dickie Marcinko would be proud that you listen to him and therefore badmouth Emersons. Now be a good little rogue and go buy some more of his fairytale paperbacks. I understand that if you save enough proofs of purchase he'll send you a secret decoder ring!

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by Aphthartos
It's funny how people don't get so emotional over Microtech, REKAT and Spyderco's QC problems.

You're right, in some cases, they show incredible patience and understanding when they should scream bloody murder at being taken advantage of. And that is, of course, not limited to the Manufacturers that you listed either.

Maybe it does have something to do with the "#1 hard use knife in the world" line, maybe people expect more than they get, and maybe they should.

Well, to play Devil's Advocate. Does it say, "#1 Fit and Finish Knives in The World?"

Mind you, I don't have a problem with the fit and finish on mine, but alot of people DO.

A statement has been made on a few occasions, and it is ludicrous. That "Ernie Emerson has declared himself the King of the Knife World."

Hey man, the guy knows how to use a knife, alot of people making them don't, we're speaking combatively now, not whittling...and as I said before, I think that bends some people's penis a bit. They get all wacked out over it.

You don't have to know how to use one that way in order to make one that works, but it helps.

The point is, the guy is involved in this stuff, and some people don't like it. That's OK, they don't have to. But beating the guy into the dirt, time after time is just what other people are calling it.

Not only is it old, it's stupid.

Let me ask all of these critics a question, ya bunch of Emerson-hatin' vocal posters...

Let's just give this a time line, shall we?

Emerson Company Begins Production.

Extremely High Quality.

A Dip, finding their feet. Some problems with QC.

Sporadic QC.

Great Run!

Sporadic QC.

Bad run of one little part. QC is blamed.

QC getting better.

Even better.

IT'S GREAT!

All of these stages, we arrive at "everything is at least as good on the QC Level as one of the other Sacred Cow Knife Manufacturers always cited as superior to EKI."

OK.

This "rogue_spear" character and others that just love to pound EKI into the dust, let me ask you folks a question.

A new guy comes in here and says, "I was thinking about buying an Emerson _________, what do you all think?"

Now you jolly group of knuckleheads come in and use OLD complaints and Threads to "prove" your point on some Newbie that does not know any better!

How fair is that?

Because the truth of the matter is, EKI's QC could stand at 110% and you guys would still be BASHING EKI using old information and threads.

It's B.S., and because you insist on doing it, you're a load of B.S. as well.

When is it going to end guys? When someone gives you a damned EKI Knife that is perfect or something? What?

 

[Chief]

I have owned and sold several Commanders. The ones made back in 1998 were excellent hard use knives. The wave rocks. Even though I had to tighten the pivot weekly, the black finish came off when cutting cardboard and the liner worked all the way across the blade in a couple of months, wish I had my 98 Commander back. Great feel in the hand, substantial overall construction. However, Commanders in current production have been cheapened to the point of junk. Not only do they still have the pivot / liner wear / black finish problems, the liners are so thin you can easily bend the knife with your bare hands. During a trip visiting a huge knife wholesaler, I inspected over a dozen of them and the blade scraped the liner when opening with the thumbstud on every one due to the flimsy construction. Even Emerson lovers know this is true, that is why they pay a huge premium for 98 Commanders. I want a Commander, I really do, but the current ones don't live up to their billing and are not anywhere near as good as the early ones. Somebody sell me their 98 model, please. Satin plain first choice.

 

[Aphthartos]

Does it say, "#1 Fit and Finish Knives in The World?"

Heh, good point.

Now Chief pointed out several problems and did so in an intelligent and mature fashion. It would be nice if some others, who will go unnamed, would do this. To list them and respond.

-Pivot screw working loose

One of the main things people tend to whine about, take out the pivot screw and put loc-tite on it. Should Emerson do this from the factory? Maybe.

-Black finish melting like butter

It does that, and it's not cool. I'd like to see it fixed but it's not a huge problem.

-liner worked all the way across the blade in a couple of months

I DO NOT think this is liner wear. Do you think the pivot screw is the only one that gets a bit loose? If the clip screws or one or two of the other screws gets a little loose the liners can shift and the liner will end up all the way across the blade in no time. Especially with the smacking that waving the knife gives them. Same thing has happened to me, I loosened the screws, lined the liners back up, and the lock was back on the left edge where it should start. If you wanna keep it that way then take the screws out and put loc-tite on them too. My CQC7 moved all the way to the right side of the tang in 3 weeks, I took it apart, loc-tited the screws, lined the liners up and it hasn't moved at all in the last 3 months.

-Commanders in current production have been cheapened to the point of junk.

Cheapened to the point that they're now quite overpriced. That's my opinion at least. But I wouldn't say they're junk. It is true that even those who support EKI say the commander needs to be the way it used to be.

 

[mikemck]

While it may for the most part be the same people complaining about Emerson QC, it's also the pretty much the same people defending Emerson QC. It's the same argument over & over again, and about the only thing that changes is the person who unwittingly starts it off.

Chief said it pretty good, and I totally concur. I would love to own a nice Commander, because I love the design, but the QC is just not there.

I pay top dollar for a "#1 hard use knife in the world", and I should think nothing of having to send a brand new knife back to the company, paying for shipping both ways, for problems that are well known and are covered under the warranty? That's mighty generous of Emerson to actually fix knives that are under warranty..Why can't other companies do this also?

I've never owned or seen a '98 Commander, but if they are the "holy grail" of the Commanders, is it too much to expect this level of quality? Maybe it's this "special" version that the vaunted Navy Seals, NASA, and others in the much ballyhooed Spec War community recieve.

Maybe Emerson can realease a "semi-custom" commander that bears a suspicious resemblance to the '98 version, and charge a few hunred more for it....

As for my EDC, it's an Al Mar SERE 2000, a Spyderco Native, and a Victorinox SAK.

I've only owned 2 SERE 2000's, but both have been outstanding.

I've owned countless Spyderco's, and have never had a problem yet with any of them, except for a Chinook that tended to rub the liner when opened right handed.

I've owned at least 15 Victorinox SAK's, and have never even heard of a QC problem with those, much less experienced one.

I've owned about 10 Benchmades, and the Axis lock is about the smoothest action I've run across, and the BM QC has always been first rate on the knives I've owned.


Yes, every company has QC problems every once in awhile, but the people who are complaining about Emerson knives have, for the most part, owned several, and all the knives had problems. Some of the people who managed to get "good" Emerson knives tried out several before finding an acceptable knife.

I don't know why Emerson seems to have such a problem with QC, but I suspect he is aware of it, but does not seem to be doing much to correct it. After all, it doesn't seem to be hurting business much, and all the tinkering you get to do helps add to the "hard use knife mystique", and you don't even have to be a Navy Seal to make it look hard used.

 

[komondor]

Ken,

As usual, a thorough and well said post.
But............

Originally posted by Ken Cook
It's not right and it's not fair.
So why do I come in here and devote all this time to it?
Because I cannot sit by and watch a good company be damaged by such "insightful" and "detailed" criticism as "Emerson sucks."

Brigadier, as well as many others, slam BM all the time. BM gets more bashing than probably any other company (and much of it is justified). Brigadier in this very post said [sic] "I have only two BMs, and one of them is in the junk drawer where it belongs." What kind of "criticism" is this? I haven't heard anyone vehemently defending BM. Maybe if you carried one as an EDC you might. But the point is, no one needs to defend them (BM), because their reputation speaks for themsleves-- same with Emerson.
I carry as my EDC a 710 and I KNOW it is a superior knife. I will match my M2 710 against ANYTHING, including a Seb. If Brigadier or someone else as a problem with BM, fine. That is their opinion, and I trust he has a good reason to feel that way.

 

[Don Rearic]

There are some valid criticisms. But the point is, why are other Manufacturers not taken to task for crappy Customer Service or spotty QC and some poor designs.

I think part of the reason for this, I have clearly stated above.

I also think the name "Emerson" becomes a rallying point, a PERSON for someone to focus on instead of an assembly line of people to say, "X Company QC is not up to par."

Know what I mean?

Maybe the personal nature of the Company being named after him draws more heat. Think about it.

As for the 98 to Mid-1999 Commanders being "better," I believe that to be true. I believe that it is not a good thing to run from that truth.

I also believe calling the ones that came after them "junk" is more than a bit of a stretch.

 

[mikemck]

The reason other companies are not taken to task as often or as vehemently as Emerson is because :

1) They are seriously hyped. Heck, you want to talk about some really hard use knives, just take a look at anything from Strider knives, yet they are not nearly as hyped as Emerson.
2) The designs are great but the QC is substandard. I, and many others, have stated we would love to own an Emerson, but given that the QC is so bad, it's just not worth it. We just want the QC improved, because Emerson won't let anyone else use the wave.

3) Emerson won't let distributors sell the left handed Commanders for some unknown reason ( Yes, I did call and ask and I got the run around ) and you have to pay full retail ( $219 ) if you want one. Hell, nobody pays MSRP, but I guess if you want the privelege of owning a leftie Commander you will and be happy about it too.

4) Emerson charges return shipping for brand new knives sent in for warranty work. If your QC is up to par, I guess this would be okay, but when you have serious problems with brand new knives, it just adds insult to injury.

I have nothing against Ernest Emerson...I don't even know who he is. I just think Emerson knives have a lot of potential and I would really like to own one if they were worth the price.

 

[komondor]

Originally posted by Eric Blair
This thread is full of trolls. Happy rotting!

Like who? How many trolls are involved in this thread?
Maybe you should identify them.

 

[OwenM]

Originally posted by Ken Cook
As a matter of fact, I know about OwenM's dealings with EKI very well. I will not discuss it because it is a private matter between Owen and myself and I do not know that he wants me to discuss it.
Suffice it to say, we've talked on the phone a few times, exchanged emails, and I don't feel he has any issues with Emerson. I don't think he ever did. He just got a knife that he felt was not acceptable.
THAT HAPPENS!
When it does, the proper thing to do is send it back to the maker and give them a chance to make it right, instead of deciding to go on a long term smear campaign against that maker.

All true.
Ken, you can share as much of that story as you like. No problem on my end. I have mentioned it to noone beyond my best friend and my father (neither of whom use these forums).

I made a few comments on the forums regarding my disappointment with a particular knife, and gave details-nothing major. No different than I would any other knife. I began to see an ugly trend, though. One person would post a thread, and then people with little to no experience with products jumping on the bandwagon, and trashing a company they knew little to nothing about. I think what really bothered me was that quite a few of these idiots had never even owned Emerson products, and said so.
There are plenty of people who have had issues with many different companies. I am not sure why Emerson (and BM, for that matter) seems to draw trolls like flies whenever mentioned.
It is one thing to give a truthful account of your experience. It is another to bash a company's name. Those that do so are nothing more than trolls to me (if that strikes a nerve, don't bother responding, you probably got a quick ticket to oblivion as far as I'm concerned as soon as my ignore list feature was enabled-well worth $30 by itself, btw).
I'd suggest finding something more productive to spend time on.

Ken,
The ignore list is a thing of beauty. Type in a half-dozen names, and you can not only change the tone of the forums in general, but also dramatically increase the average IQ

Out.

 

[Don Rearic]

Originally posted by mikemck
The reason other companies are not taken to task as often or as vehemently as Emerson is because :

1) They are seriously hyped. Heck, you want to talk about some really hard use knives, just take a look at anything from Strider knives, yet they are not nearly as hyped as Emerson.

That's Apples & Cadillacs Dude, with all due respect. Emerson has two fixed blades in production and a half dozen or a little more, folders. Exactly opposite of Strider.

So, what are we talking about? Folders? Right? Compare the Buck Strider to Emersons all you want. And it might very well be a great knife, I have not even held one yet. If I like it, I'll get one, that's for sure. But I have two folks telling me they ain't the sharpest knives in the basket, because they are so tough. There has to be a trade-off. It's most certainly a tough looking mother though.

2) The designs are great but the QC is substandard. I, and many others, have stated we would love to own an Emerson, but given that the QC is so bad, it's just not worth it. We just want the QC improved, because Emerson won't let anyone else use the wave.

No, the QC that you may have observed might have been "substandard," this goes back to what I said before! What if it got better? He is going to damn well pay for everyone that does not like him no matter what he does.

There have been MINIMAL complaints as of late because QC was in FACT tightened. The only exception to that was a terrible batch of stop pins that were cracking and I know damned well it was a BATCH of them and not the norm because I Wave these 9 pigs open and none have broken. There have been two cases. Bad batch, just like everyone else gets a bad batch once in a while.

3) Emerson won't let distributors sell the left handed Commanders for some unknown reason ( Yes, I did call and ask and I got the run around ) and you have to pay full retail ( $219 ) if you want one. Hell, nobody pays MSRP, but I guess if you want the privelege of owning a leftie Commander you will and be happy about it too.

YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! DAMN THAT MAN! I bought an Left Commander off Ernie personally in June of 2000. I wanted one and I have no delusions about what I have these knives for. They're not whittlers Dude. I have them to save my life, my Wife's or my Son's. And if I had to pay full price for it because that is the way Ernie wants to run his business, that's his damned business!

I'll tell you something though, I know a local dealer, and Lefties run in spurts. Some sit in cases for, literally, YEARS, and do not get sold. I think that is a part of the problem and not just Ernie singling out Lefties! WTF?

Damn, Ernie hates Lefties too. He's E-Vile! Did he shoot JFK too?

I'm trying hard not to be too sarcastic, but come on! He is getting heat because of this?

I think, in that statement, you see some of the reason for the venom, I'm sorry.

4) Emerson charges return shipping for brand new knives sent in for warranty work. If your QC is up to par, I guess this would be okay, but when you have serious problems with brand new nives, it just adds insult to injury.

Seems like a valid criticism to me. See? I'm not blind or hard to get along with.

I have nothing against Ernest Emerson...I don't even know who he is. I just think Emerson knives have a lot of potential and I would really like to own one if they were worth the price.

Well, some of the earlier comments about people REALLY hating Emerson were not necessarily aimed at you, but others who have said some pretty outlandish nonsense Dude.

As for them being worth the price...

The Market sets the price. My Life is worth the price.

I've trained with these Emerson Trainers [who started making them and now a couple others have caught on...eh?] and I know that they are, by design, quite a bit above the rest in performance in that particular realm. Edged Weapons Combatives. Your mileage, might very well vary.

 

[mikemck]

Hard use knives are hard use knives. If you want to call something the #1 hard use knives in the world, then that pretty much covers everyone.
If you want to compare just folders, Strider also makes two modesl of folders. All I'm saying is, from all I have heard from actual customers, is that you can't hurt a Strider knife, period.

I know of at least one customer who did some serious damage to a Commander just by sticking it into a tire.

You can call a line of knives the #1 hard use, but that does not make it true. What you can and should expect when you make a claim like that is that people might challenge it, and will at least expect a very tough and high quality knife.

Maybe the QC has improved, but if it comes down to spending another $150 or so to find out for myself, why not just go with something else? And BTW, Emerson supporters who continually insist that not only are there no QC problems but never were, lead me to believe that the knives I owned were the norm.

As for Emerson knives being "adjustable" and "maintainable" by the user, why not just ship the knives "assembly required" and be done with it? Why do other knife companies not do this?
Why is it that my other knives don't need adjusting?

Really, how many different ways can you prefer the blade to be adjusted? Do you want it to rub the right side liner? no problem, just adjust it that way. How about rubbing the left side? Again, no problem. Want some of each, just don't bother to loc tite the pivot pin then.
I mean get real, I think we can agree that having the blade centered is what 99% of the people want, and that's what they get, even from knives that don't require "adjustment".

How about the liner lock? Want it all the way over to the right? No problem, just don't adjust the liners when they get out of whack....

The fact is, most production knives don't need to be adjusted constantly or loc tited. The finish does not wear off the screws,
the liners do not need adjusting.

Name just one other company that puts out knives that have this "feature".


About the leftie commanders.....Emerson WILL NOT LET DISTRIBUTORS SELL THE LEFT HANDED COMMANDERS. It's not a case of distributors not wanting to stock them because they might not sell.
As for saving my life, so will other knives that I do not have to pay MSRP for. Dang, you would think by cutting out the middleman you could actually save a bit, but I guess not.

This whole leftie thing is what would keep me from being surprised if Emerson released the "semi-custom" Commander that bears a close resemblance to the much coveted '98 version.
But whatever, I bought one, it had the same problems the other 2 right handed Commanders I owned had, and I sold it.


I have owned Emerson knives, I don't like the quality, at any price, and probably won't buy another unless I inspected it first.

What's really galling is to buy one of these knives that you have really wanted, carry it for a bit, decide you don't really care for it for one reason or another, and find that the resale value has dropped considerably because while you didn't actually use it, it looks like you did.
This is caused by blades that rub and screws that lose the finish just by handling the knife. In short, this brand new kinfe looks quite used, and a selling price has to be set accordingly.


Even more sad than Emerson QC though is these threads that continually come up. This thread looks just about like the last one, and here I am doing my part to keep it alive....