just in: emmerson commander

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Mike,

Well said.

I also agree with you on the Sere 2000 assessment.
Now there is a perfect example of someone listening to customer complaints and doing something about it. IMMEDIATELY
I know BM doesn't do that. Their QC sucks (not afraid to use that term) but people still keep buying their knives. I can't speak for Emerson because I don't have any experience with them.
Yeah, the Sere 2000 is a masterpiece. I would trust my life to that in a second.
 
Why is it we're not talking about QC anymore?

Suddenly all the hate and discontent comes from the fact that if you want certain features, you have to buy them direct. So what?
I bought my waved 7 direct. Paid full price, even asked for something they didn't have in stock and they MADE it for me, just cause I asked.

So you don't like paying full price for certain features.
That's reason to trash talk the company?

<b>"Really, how many different ways can you prefer the blade to be adjusted? Do you want it to rub the right side liner? no problem, just adjust it that way. How about rubbing the left side? Again, no problem. Want some of each, just don't bother to loc tite the pivot pin then."</b>

Sorry, but here you show your ignorance. And by ignorance, I mean not stupidity, but the TRUE meaning of the word, "lack of knowledge." Absolutely no insult or offense intended.

Blade tension adjustment is HYPER critical for each user. The Wave feature only makes this more so. It must be set for EACH individual, as no two people are going to perform the manuver the same way.

If it's too tight for you, you're not going to get a reliable opening.
If it's too loose, it may open partially in your pocket. At that point, performing a wave opening is also going to perform a "pocket-ectomy" on you and each user needs to find the correct blade tension for himself. Once you get it where you want it, dab a drop of blue loctite on it and forget about it. I set my blade tension on my edc Commander two years ago and haven't had to mess with it since.

For the price of ONE DROP of loctite, I get blade tension exactly the way *I* want it, not the way some bozo at a factory wants it.

You guys that raise so much fuss over having to set and maintain a knife crack me up. I'm willing to bet that you spend many happy hours tinkering with your car, your motorcycle, your lawnmower or whatever and never think twice about it, but "tinkering" with something that may be called upon to save your life someday is too much bother?
C'mon.

BTW,
OwenM,
The ignore option is not available to Moderators.
It would be counter productive to say the least.


(edited for spelling error)
 
Originally posted by komondor
I know BM doesn't do that. Their QC sucks (not afraid to use that term) but people still keep buying their knives.
Click to expand...

Now, now.
Hey, wasn't I just on your thread in community?
Anyway....
komondor,
What percentage of the worldwide distribution of Benchmade products would you estimate that you have personally inspected, owned, and used, and considering that, do you feel that your blanket statement, which by implication refers to every single one of them, is accurate?
:p

Perhaps people, even people who are knowledgable about knives, keep buying their knives for the same reason that they keep buying Emersons. Maybe they don't all suck. Maybe, most of them don't even suck. Maybe, maybe, maybe, only a small portion of them suck. Hmmmm
 
I just got an idea....

Perhaps we should set up a poll regarding Emerson Knives!

Looking at a thread wont always do it, we need NUMBERS.
 
Originally posted by OwenM
Now, now.
Hey, wasn't I just on your thread in community?
Anyway....
komondor,
What percentage of the worldwide distribution of Benchmade products would you estimate that you have personally inspected, owned, and used, and considering that, do you feel that your blanket statement, which by implication refers to every single one of them, is accurate?
:p
Click to expand...

Yes you were. You have good tastes in movies and music.
But as far as knives go, BM seriously has a QC issue. How can anyone argue with that? I have one BM (it had QC problems). It is still my favorite all time folder, however. (Sere 2000 is almost tied with it)
But it had problems, regardless. I have seen friends' BMs that had other problems. I have heard so many others on these boards complain about their QC to the point where if I thought 50% of BMs had obvious F&F problems, that would be underestimating. It is becoming more and more apparent that BM might have the exact same problem with Emerson. They are simply putting out too many knives, and are using the consumer for quality control. But once certain issues are resolved, the knife comes back and is better than anything else you own. It sounds like BM and Emerson are riding a lot on their innovations and perhaps quality of material. For example, BM has the Axis and M2 steel, and Emerson has the Wave. Just a theory, I don't know.

It amazes me though, the number of rabid Emerson defenders on these boards. I just don't see this type of zealousness with BM or Rekat. And I also see some very rational, down to earth disapproval with Emerson knives, such as Chief and el cid. Are they all ignorant trolls, also?
Truly a controversial company this is turning out to be.
 
komondor.
Maybe we "defenders" are only "rabid" when it comes to unfounded and baseless attacks by those who have some sort of vindictive agenda.

As for el cid, (I haven't seen Cheif post in this thread so won't comment on him either way.) I have no problem with el cid or anything he's said so far.

I don't think anyone else does either.

I know my posts tend to run long and can be quite boring, but read the whole post carefully, you'll see that I'm very specific in who I address.
 
Ken,

Since you didn't see my post, here it is again. Changed one word (junk to unacceptable) to make it less irritable to one poster. I really want one, but want a 98 version, even with it quirkiness they lived up to their billing back then, today, it just ain't so.

I have owned and sold several Commanders. The ones made back in 1998 were excellent hard use knives. The wave rocks. Even though I had to tighten the pivot weekly, the black finish came off when cutting cardboard and the liner worked all the way across the blade in a couple of months, wish I had my 98 Commander back. Great feel in the hand, substantial overall construction. However, Commanders in current production have been cheapened to the point of unacceptable. Not only do they still have the pivot / liner wear / black finish problems, the liners are so thin you can bend the knife with your bare hands. During a trip visiting a huge knife wholesaler, I inspected over a dozen of them and the blade scraped the liner when opening with the thumbstud on every one due to the flimsy construction. Even Emerson lovers know this is true, that is why they pay a huge premium for 98 Commanders. I want a Commander, I really do, but the current ones don't live up to their billing and are not anywhere near as good as the early ones. Somebody sell me their 98 model, please. Satin plain first choice.
 
I've owned several BM's: AFCK, CQC7, 940's, 710, Stryker..........

The only one worth owning IMHO was the CQC7. Anyway, the only ones I have left are the AFCK and the Stryker. The stryker is the one in the junk drawer because the uneven heat treat of the blade makes it impossible to sharpen. The tip is so hard, you can't sharpen it. And yes, I know how to sharpen tantos.

The real reason I am hard on BM is this: I dropped my AFCK on a concrete floor one day when it was my EDC piece. The plastic backspacer cracked and broke in two. I called BM and asked them to send me a new one. I even said I'd pay for it. Their answer was "Sorry, we can't ship parts to customers. You will have to send it to us for repair." Excuse me? It's just a backspacer!!!! I can fix it myself!:mad: "Sorry, that would void the warranty". So I had to send it back to the factory for a new backspacer.:mad: That's GREAT customer service/relations if you ask me :rolleyes: .

Second, I bought a 940BT that HAD NO EDGE ON THE BLADE AT ALL!!!! The BT went all the way to where the edge was supposed to be. That was the last straw!!! And since I really liked the BM CQC7, I decided to give the real thing a try. Never looked back. BTW, my BM CQC7 is with my nephew in San Diego at USMC boot camp. I gave it too him as a graduation gift. Semper Fi.

Any company that voids a warranty because the user disassembles the knife does NOT get any of MY business.

BTW, I noticed Chief is an Authorized MT dealer. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm........
 
Originally posted by Ken Cook
Why is it we're not talking about QC anymore?
Click to expand...

I missed this late last night. The reason for that is, from some folks...is because they hate EKI and nothing will please them. QC Improved? "He declared himself the King of Knifemakers!" QC Improved? "He _____________." QC Improved? "EKI is not doing _____."
 
Sorry, but here you show your ignorance. And by ignorance, I mean not stupidity, but the TRUE meaning of the word, "lack of knowledge." Absolutely no insult or offense intended.
Blade tension adjustment is HYPER critical for each user. The Wave feature only makes this more so. It must be set for EACH individual, as no two people are going to perform the manuver the same way.
If it's too tight for you, you're not going to get a reliable opening.
If it's too loose, it may open partially in your pocket. At that point, performing a wave opening is also going to perform a "pocket-ectomy" on you and each user needs to find the correct blade tension for himself. Once you get it where you want it, dab a drop of blue loctite on it and forget about it. I set my blade tension on my edc Commander two years ago and haven't had to mess with it since.
For the price of ONE DROP of loctite, I get blade tension exactly the way *I* want it, not the way some bozo at a factory wants it.
Click to expand...


I've owned 3 Commanders, and when I managed to get the blade centered, the wave worked fine for me, and anyone else that tried it out. Sure, maybe it's just luck that when the blade was actually centered the tension was "just right" for me and everyone else, as this is evidently hyper critical, but I kinda doubt it.

In my opinion, this thread is just getting more & more bizarre.
Emerson is the only knife company I know of that puts out knives like these. Emerson supporters call these things "features", and I guess that's a good way to look at it if you want to own Emerson knives.

As for BM, I've owned several and I have not seen the problems that people are talking about. Does that mean BM QC is outstanding, because I personally have not had problems? Following the logic that Emerson supporters use I guess it would mean that.

In short, I have personally owned several Emerson knives, and all had the same kinds of problems. This is not a bad batch of knives, this is poor QC. I'm glad for the people who have owned and still own several Emerson knives. My not owning them does should not detract from your enjoyment and pride of ownership.
 
Here's what I do to my Emersons when I get them:
I disassemble it[I can do that WITHOUT voiding the warranty, ya know], and clean it, and lubricate it with the oil of MY choice[Militec-1]. After all, isn't that what you do with a new firearm? If the blade was stiff or rubbing the locking liner, I reduce the tension applied to the blade by the second ball detent leaf spring. No problem. I then loosely re-assemble the knife[warranty still intact], put a drop of Loc-tite on the pivot screw, adjust the liner position, tighten the grip/liner screws, adjust blade tension, wave it a few times if applicable, and then let the Loc-tite set up. Voila!
total time, 10 minutes. Extra $$$, None. Does this seem unreasonable to have to do on a $100+ knife? If you answered "Yes", then let me ask you this: How may of you will buy a handgun, say a $700+ 1911, and then spend hundreds or thousands of dollars and ship it across the country to some gunsmith just so it's just right for YOU???? But you won't spend 10 minutes with a $200 Commander and adjust it to YOUR liking??? Ironic, isn't it?

BTW, I still don't know what Rogue Spear carries for his EDC knife. Here's my line up:

Street carry: 2000 Commander, RF pocket, 2000 CQC7B, LF pocket ala Ken Cook
Spyderco Native in neck sheath.

When I get to work, the Commander goes into the tool box, and out comes a Mach-1. When I get home, both Emersons go into the BF knife bag and I use a different Commander. There ya have it, RS. What about you?
 
Okay, I gotta ask.

0ther than BM, who's warranty is voided if you take the knife apart?
I hear this touted time & time again as a point in Emersons favor, but only if you compare it to BM, and never mind all of the other knife companies that could not care less if you take a knife apart.

Your 1911 analogy assumes that the people complaining about Emerson own 1911's that they have customized. I personally own Glocks, and they are 100% reliable right out of the box...That's why I buy them.

I think you miss the whole point, in that Emerson is the only knife that REQUIRES these adjustments. All the other knife companies can manage to turn out knives that are adjusted just fine, and they do not have the features that Emerson supporters value so much.

As far as what RS carries, what possible bearing could that have on his opinion of Emerson, or this thread in general?
Let's just say for the sake of argument that his EDC is a Sebenza...what do you make of that? Or maybe it's a Spyderco Endura or Delica...
What possible difference does it make? The simple truth is, he'll tell you whatever he wants to tell you, and you can make whatever you want to out of it.

I can see you are pleased with Emerson knives. Therefore, you should also be happy that others buy them and dislike them, as this enables you to then snatch them up at a greatly discounted price and adjust & tinker all you like.

Yours, or mine, or anyone else's support of or discontent with Emerson knives does not amount to a hill of beans when it's all said and done. Emerson is not going to go broke or out of business just because I don't buy his knives, and he won't get rich just because you do. This whole thread, and all the others like it, are pointless.

Emerson knives, you either love 'em or hate 'em.....
 
Mike,

Actually, I have never had to "tweak" any of my Emersons except one, and I did not "have" to tweak it, I wanted to.

The first SOCFK I bought was great! It was not as "slick" as some are, meaning LIGHTNING FAST/SMOOTH, I don't know how to describe it other than that. It was TIGHT. Tight is a good thing. In Tupperware and knives. :D

Anyway, it was not so tight it was stupid-tight. Just not a slickster.

I figured it was just the way the SOCFKs were put together.

I bought another one, it was greased lightning! So I tried to "tweak" the tight one to that feeling of the second SOCFK I bought, to no avail.

Now, is that what I consider a "QC" problem? No, not at all. I've owned three original Spyderco Civilians, two of the G10 Civilians, Harpys, about four Police Models, Mariners, Lefty Mariners and Police Models...and every one of them were different on the opening! Every, last one. So I don't think it is a "QC" problem, it is "acceptable tolerances from the Manufacturer."

Benchmades? Same~Same Dude.

Cold Steel? Some of those Zytel paperweights are slick, some are like a SAK with a thumbstud.

CRK&T are cool for the money, but they rust to hell in the summer pocket. :barf:

I have had screws walk out of knives that were not used hard at all [BM], I've had locks fail, dull knives, extremely sharp knives, I've had about every Manufacturer that you can imagine and from Company to Company, particular knife to particular knife...all have exhibited problems from stupid~minor to extremely obnoxious.

[Caveat: This is not meant to sound arrogant, I hope it is not taken this way]

Honestly, I've been buying these things, the "latest folders," on an almost monthly basis, since about 1987 or 88. I'm not a Cherry when it comes to these things at all. I've seen blunders and thrown together knives without a care in the world to what the Customer slipped out of the box Mike.

Without mentioning any names now...I've had two knives from one very popular Manufacturer [Not BM] that were HORRIBLE! The actual design is excellent, the execution of it is akin to RUINING a great design.

These are both extremely popular knives on BFC, and they are simply in no way whatsoever worthy of any sort of worship.

Yet, people love them. I owned those two knives, and I sold those two knives. Period. I received less than acceptable Customer Service on one of them. I sold it after getting it back with the same problem.

The other one I got in a trade, one of the you give me three "lesser" knives for this really good knife, and it had the same problem as the other because the execution of the excellent design was unacceptable, and I sold it too.

All of this ranting and raving about Emersons is B.S.

AND...and, if that is not bad enough, like I have said twice or thrice in this thread, even if EKI made the QC and Customer Service 110%, some would still bitch at past reviews and experiences.

Therefore, EKI should in no way try to please you or anyone else in this matter, for you cannot be pleased by EKI.

They simply need to try and make the best knife they can, and some people are going to get the occasional T-U-R-D like every Manufacturer puts out.

But, the other people quietly send their knife back. If it has a SpecWar Logo on it, by God, they'll come on here and scream bloody murder about it.
 
I own a Glock, several 1911 .45s, a SAA Clone .45LC, S&W .44, some more "esoteric" goodies, and all kinds of knives.

I "tinker" with all of them.
Maybe it's a personality thing. No matter how good it is out of the box, I can always "tweak" it a little bit and make it better.

This is something that I honestly consider a GOOD thing, and when I see a statement in an Owner's Manual that says "Disassembly voids warranty." I laugh heartily and begin ripping into whatever the toy at hand happens to be.

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that you either love or hate EKI knives.

The thing that baffles me though, is how some of us never get a BAD one, and some of you seem to never get a GOOD one. Either some of us are very lucky, or some of us don't have the same standard of "good."

Now I know knives. I'm not the biggest expert in the field by any means, but I've been heavily into sharp things for going on 30 years.

Surely you guys will give me enough credit to believe that I know a good one from a POS. (I've seen and owned plenty of both!) And if so, how do you explain it? How is it that I see so many GREAT EKI knives, and then someone like Chief says every one he sees is garbage.

BTW Chief,
I agree! You can probably bend any EKI folder out there. But then, if you really want to, you can probably bend up just about any other Tac folder out there too. Depends on how bad you want it. It's a limitation of the design, but ask yourself when those kinds of forces are going to be applied either during every day use or in a fight?

I've never seen an EKI where the blade scraped the liners.
Yeah, the blacking comes off the screws sometimes. Both my Commanders are like that, my CQC isn't. But I don't care either way. They're not for showin' they're for goin'. Maybe it bothers some people, it's a matter of opinion. If it bothers them that much, they shouldn't buy the knife.



_____________________________________________________

At the end of the day, I'm not raising any hell about whether someone likes a certain knife or not. I couldn't care less to be honest.

What bothers me is what I see to be inappropriate behavior.
RS (and some others) has a history of going out of his way to bash Emerson. Going so far as to make Anti-Emerson comments that can only vaguely be construed as being "on-topic." He also trashes REKAT on a regular basis. (screw the Brand X stuff, it's getting old.)

I know it looks like I'm raggin' hard on RS, but as I said earlier, he's the guy that happened to be on the skyline when the shooting started. I have nothing personal against him.

I just don't think it's right for someone to keep coming back time after time after time, and trashing a company out. After awhile, it looks like someone just trying to build themselves up by tearing down a giant. (Not saying that's what it IS, I'm saying that's what it looks like.)

I suppose if you MUST do this. If you feel that your ethical code compels you to do this, then at least give facts. Don't just make statements that say "Emerson sucks" or "REKAT is junk."

Of course, in the end...
You can do whatever you want to do, I'm just asking that you consider being a little less strident and a little more thoughtful

Myself?
There are a lot of knives out there that I wouldn't have on a bet.
But you won't hear me talking about them.
How could I? If I don't own one and use it, how can I know whether it's worth a damn or not?
 
Brigidier,

The fact that I am an Authorized Microtech dealer does not influence my opinion of Emersons. In fact, I sell Emersons, Benchmades, CRKTs and Spydercos, in addition to Microtechs. I love the wave, I like 98 Commanders, and other brands like my M2 AFCK, Spyderco Moran and Sebbie Classic. Its just that I am too disappointed in the flimsy liners on current Commanders to own one which is really too bad as the wave rocks.

Ken,

The problem with being able to bend them is how easily you can bend the newer Commanders. They are so flimsy that when the blade is centered and you push on the thumbstud to open the knife, the side pressure is enough to bend the knife enought to allow the blade to scrape on the liner. The blade doesn't scrape when opening an AFCK, Sebbie, W&H, LCC, or other quality folder, why tolerate that on "hard use knives"?

Emersonaholics, its ok that you like them, but don't get so emotional that you can't allow others see the problems with them and point them out. Even with their quirkiness, am still waiting for an offer from anyone to sell me a 98 model, haven't gotten one nibble yet.
 
John,
Originally posted by John Hollister
Click to expand...

Ken, did you get the one that rouge_spear pointed out the review page that looked like it was written by a twelve year old. LOL

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116019
Interesting, that review and the webpage are mine :) Sadly I've missed that thread, back then in 2000. I'm not visiting EKI forum unfortunately.
Believe me I have no interests whatsoever in bashing or glorifying EKI.

Not sure why, but you and Don Rearic were quite irritated with my review. Of course it's far from perfection, especially with my english :) Anyways, just because it's not all that good to match UR demands and opinion(s), I hope there's no need to burn me alive.

I apologize for not realizing soon enough that Emerson is <B>Planet's most respected knifemaker</B> and all that stuff.


P.S. And that doomed disk is loose on my commander ;)
I know, that never happened to Don Rearic, therefore it's impossible to happen to anyone else, but anyways...
The coating that I was comparing with BM, I said Emersons was better, but the stains stay :)
And no I do not work for BM, as some other EKI fan suspected.
 
Originally posted by Don Rearic
Click to expand...

I have been critical of some things myself.
You could add "less than polite" here too, but probably you've missed that part while defending EKI ;)

But I have nine Production Folders and don't have a complaint about them.
Good 4 U :) However does that mean that everyone else is supposed to have 9 or more Emerson folders and no complaints?

I have all of these Emerson Knives...GOD! I have $1,400.00 in Production Junk from Ernie!

If they are so horrible, why have I continued to buy these things?

ROFL. That was an interesting question, and a brilliant argument in defense of EKI QC :D How can you doubt it, if Don buys it... Yeah, right. That is suposed to be very mature?

That quote above, is kindda old :) From the other thread, sorry missed it then, but anyways, just as last year, you are sure, that as long as you like it others must like the same thing, otherwise they automatically join the "knuckleheads" and B.S. group?

With all due respect Don, just because you like tham and can't stop buying them, Emerson knives are not ANY better, and for some reason I suspect they'd be the same if you woulnd't have a single Emerson knife, or even worse, owned a BM knife!

And there always will be heretics(some with bad English) who will think that you and EKI are not the center of the universe anyways :(

BTW as of the folks pointing to wrong places, according to you:

Originally posted by Don Rearic
As for the 98 to Mid-1999 Commanders being "better," I believe that to be true.

Originally posted by Don Rearic
QC getting better.
:)
 
If it bothers them that much, they shouldn't buy the knife.
Click to expand...

THAT, Ken, is the bottom line. Well said.

Guess what? I can't stand Benchmades. I think they're crap. And I don't care for Spydercos. I think they're fugly. And I don't like CRKT's either. So?
I buy mostly customs. Why? Because I can. Because customs are usually MUCH better than productions. The only productions that I'll give the time of day to are a select few MT's and Emerson's. Why? Because I like them.
But I don't start threads whining about the quality of Benchmades, or saying what crap other productions are. I simply choose not to buy them. If you want to buy crap, PLEASE do. That will leave more high quality customs for the rest of us.

Buy what you like. If you don't like something then don't buy it. But why waste your life whining about what you don't like? Because that's what trolls do.

Trolls will be trolls.
They're bandwidth bandits.
Such is life.
So be it.
 
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