Just need to vent a little :grumpy:

lmcq784

lmcq784

Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
2,504
I'm just frustrated... I know it's a free market and people should be able to buy whatever they want at whatever quantity they'd like... but I'm frustrated!

Preordered a Carpenter Para2 around X'mas'10, and it still hasn't come :( contacted the reseller, and they told me they can't tell me what spot I am in their preorder list... What they did tell me was that they received a small batch of them, sent them out on first-come-first-serve, and is expecting another small batch later....

Meanwhile, I'm seeing these Carpenter Para2's surfacing either here or on ebay for twice (or more) the preorder price...

I don't scalp, and just don't appreciate others when they do it... but oh well.. it's a free market, and it's a limited item... too bad for me, I guess... :grumpy:

At least I got the one Fluted Ti Millie I preordered.... :thumbup: what an excellent work of art!

Sorry, I just had to let it out... thanks for listening.
 
Don't feel bad, there is another batch on the way shortly. I preordered mine in July of last year, I think I was the one that told the place where I bought it about them. They received I think 5 or 6 of them and I got a call.
 
Hi Imcq,

Sorry for your frustration and thanx for letting us know your thoughts. Thanx also for the kind words.

We make our short runs for our customers that want them. I can see where it would be frustrating to know that some see it as an opportunity for "other than appreciation". We generally guess at a quantity that will sell fairly quickly (so we don't have to sit on inventory), but enough so that everyone that wants one can get one.

It seems that some of the more recent "sprints" have been too low of a quantity to meet the above goal. Thoughts on solutions?

sal
 
Hey Sal, once again it's very classy of you to think of your customers by looking for solutions to the sprint run dilemma. I myself would be willing to pay as soon as I pre-order. Might that not be a solution? Those who pre-order pay when they put in their orders and you can keep tabs on how many do it and produce as many as have been paid for.

Or you can take payment from your dealers for all pre-orders and adjust your production accordingly. Or something along those lines.

It would be great to be assured of a knife or two and I would be glad to pay in advance and would be ecstatic at the opportunity.
 
Thats why I don't pre-order - I miss out on a lot of very nice knives and very desirable steels/materials, but the frustration is not worth it.

It seems everyone tries real hard to be fair about keeping track of the pre-orders, but inevitably there are frustrated buyers.

My only suggestion would be to offer the sprint run as a production run if the demand seems to be strong, and the materials are at hand to manufacture in quantity.

I do enjoy the hunt for the next "hot" knife, but it does get frustrating to see people amass these models only to try to flip them for profits.
 
That demand is so high can only be a good thing. Sprints runs in super steel have become more and more common over the last few years, If you don't get one, another will be along soon enough.

Sal, I think now (or sometime soon) might be a good time to put some S90V or 20CP on regular limited production. Once people know that another batch will be coming along every few months (or maybe just once or twice a year?) then the scalping should be drastically reduced.
 
Sal,

I think you should just make it known that in the future sprint run quantities will be flexible, not fixed, and may be increased as demand warrants. When demand has run its course, you can declare a particular run closed.
 
catamount123 said:
Sal,

I think you should just make it known that in the future sprint run quantities will be flexible, not fixed, and may be increased as demand warrants. When demand has run its course, you can declare a particular run closed.
Click to expand...

I'm curious. How is that different from regular production?
 
We have to determine how many we're planning to make when we order steel. Often 9-10 months before delivery.

sal
 
I posted this on the parallel thread on Spyderco's home forum, so I guess I'll add it to this discussion as well:

I'm fine with the current system, too, and as Sal mentioned over on BFC having "limited" runs that aren't limited from the outset would be difficult for Spyderco given that they have to order the materials well in advance (at least in the case of steels or other materials that aren't part of regular production, such as S90V and 20CP).

If people really think a change is needed, it seems like a simple, effective move would just be to bump up the numbers on limited runs of the high-demand models (Para 2, Manix 2, Military), maybe by 200 or so knives. That number is just a guess, of course, and I'm sure Spyderco has the numbers to make a far more informed calculation. But given how many dealers have been unable to fill all of their pre-orders for recent Para 2 sprint runs, it seems safe to say that there's a decent amount of unmet demand for an increase in supply to soak up. And, again given the clear signs of demand exceeding supply (e.g., fairly large numbers of unfilled pre-orders, high secondary market prices), there's low risk that Spyderco would be left holding the bag with a bunch of extra, unwanted sprint run knives. (Again, these remarks apply just to the high-demand Para 2, Manix 2, and Military sprints -- other, less well-established/popular sprints would have to be treated on a case-by-case basis.)
 
What about creating a steel head club for people that really want to have one? It could be similar to the SCC, but it would only involve sprint models? I'd sign up for that in a flash.
 
I wouldn't mind seeing some Sprint announcements and having the dealers setup a pre-order to let you know how many to make.

Sprint announcements, I personally have a hard time finding out what sprints are coming and which variations are actually sprints. The only thing I know now is: If a knife is announced on the Spyderco forum, it is production or limited production; if it is not announced at all, it is a sprint or exclusive run.

I think there are collectors that only like the 500-600 knife runs because they typically end up being worth more for re-sale. Not to say they wouldn't buy something from a 1000-1200 sprint, but they will complain because they won't be as valuable. The collectors like to complain a lot. If the run is too short and are all sold from the dealers before the dealers get them, we see maybe two threads of people disappointed that they didn't get one. That and people will still be able to get one for $300 from someone who pre-orders something and they don't really want the knife, they just want to turn it for a profit. When the run is too big, we seem to see several threads about people hating that the knife is so common.

From Spyderco's point of view, take a look at the White Micarta Goddard Jr. sprint. I'm not sure how many were done, but it was done around two years ago and I think there are still some available for purchase at dealers. =\ You don't want to make something that doesn't sell, so the best way to do sprints is to undershoot it to make sure they sell.

If you allow the dealers to start pre-orders a year ahead of time, I'm sure they will get complaints that people have been waiting for so long to get a knife. It seems like 3-4 months is the sweet spot for a pre-order period for knifes.

I got lucky with the Gray Para 2, I saw the S90V and didn't want to pay over $200 for one, then saw the gray one and jumped on right away in early October.

I have to constantly watch the Bombshell thread to get a heads up on what I want to get, then jump on it as soon as possible when I see it for pre-order.
 
I guess (no, I'm sure) that I don't know anything about materials and inventory control. But is it inefficient or otherwise cost prohibitive to keep on hand sufficient quantities of the different flavors of blade steel for the various projects, so that an additional 600 units of a sprint run could be produced when demand was there? In other words, if you end up with too much Carpenter's steel for the Para 2 sprint, would it not be used for future projects? Just asking. I don't know these things.

I'm still stinging from having sold a blue Manix 2, and now I can't get my hands on one for a "reasonable" price. :)
 
Two suggestions.

The first one has already been addressed, but I want to second it... Create a Sprint Run only Collector's Club.

The second one is to put a picture (and other knife details) of a prototype up on the Sypderco Forums, then sit back and wait for a response from the Sypderco fans. This will give you some idea of what the demand will be. Not highly accurate of course, but surely better than just a guess. I have to imagine that most of the people buying Sprint runs are Spyderco fanatics. After all the general public will probably never know of, or see, one of these knives.

And just as a side note I have to tell you I could not be more impressed with a company that puts forth the effort of Sprint runs at all. It shows that you really are committed to your most loyal followers.
 
RevDevil said:
What about creating a steel head club for people that really want to have one? It could be similar to the SCC, but it would only involve sprint models? I'd sign up for that in a flash.
Click to expand...
I'd be all over this too, since the main sprint runs that interest me are those with exotic/super-premium steels (SPM-S90V, CTS-20CP, etc.).
 
Now, the way RevDevil describes his Steel Head club is all sprint runs. I think everyone else is thinking only the sprints that involve an alternate steel than the normal production model.

Either one will work, but which do people prefer?
 
powernoodle said:
I'm still stinging from having sold a blue Manix 2, and now I can't get my hands on one for a "reasonable" price. :)
Click to expand...
That's interesting, I've been watching the Blue Manix 2 sales, and they were selling for $250 ish for a while. Recently they've been going for $200-225 and I think sometimes even less than that.

What is a reasonable price?

Along with your other questions, couldn't you buy enough for a double run and based on how many sell do a second run of the first knife or do a run of a different knife?

Does Spyderco in golden buy steel for the Japan facilities or does Japan buy their own steel? (I know they only use Japanese steel.)
 
I would not think that the normal production models really go away. They just get produced in batches according to scheduled factory time, at least this is the impression I've gotten from reading here and there. Sprints though, once they are gone, that is it.

Japanese produced Spyderco knives are made from Japanese steel, importing US steel would be avery time consuming and expensive endeavor. The exporting of japanese steel is also complicated, basically it isn't done on a large scale. Taiwan though seems to be easier to deal with as far as exporting steel and other materials to them, this can be seen reflected in the cost of the finished products.
 
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