Just Want Your opinions

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

As a moderator I was recently dealing with a seller who puts handles on some pre-made knife blade and sells them as custom knives made by him.... with his makers mark. He refers to himself as a knifemaker, and sells the knives in the Knifemaker's Market.

I don't consider him a knifemaker, or the knives custom knives by a knifemaker. I wanted to get your input on this subject. I know it has been discussed before, but what do you chaps think?

In full disclosure, I handle and re-sell 100 or more pre-made or pre-cut blades a year (As well my custom hand forged/ground knives and swords), but never say I made the pre-made blades from scratch. I mark the blades with my name, but not my hand made logo. I certainly would never sell them in the Knifemaker's Market.

 

[Tait]

I think it's a bad idea to intentionally mislead customers - if he is doing so, he's hurting himself in the long run, and, potentially, other knifemakers.

 

[bhyde]

Personally speaking, I would be a little more than upset to buy a "custom" to find out that the only thing custom about the knife is the scales/handles.
Full disclosure I think would be in order.

 

[Tiiiiiiiim]

It's cheating real knife makers of their status really. It's like calling someone who assembles pre-maid ikea furniture (if you can call it that) a cabinet maker.

 

[panch0]

I run into these guys on another forum I am part of. Members often pm me and ask if I think they are kit knives. I always point them to the main stores that sell kitsand tell then to compare and come up with their own conclusion. I think folks would like to know this info.

 

[lukus]

He can't truly call himself a knifemaker, and especially not a custom knife maker. Maybe a "customizer" is a better fit. Intentionally deceiving someone and taking their money by doing it is being an a$$hole at best.

Putting handles on blades takes real skill to do it functionally and right, and it can be a true art. Yellowhorse has made a living with his skills. I think they are called collaborations.

 

[Ed Caffrey]

Well, my opinion is that unless your making the whole thing, placing your name on it is at the least, misleading. To explain, in the not too distant past, I was attending a knife show where an individual was selling "kit" folders that were marked with his name. A client, who had purchased a knife from me the day before, purchased one of those folders and brought it to my table to show me. I asked the buyer if he was aware that the knife was a kit? His eyes about popped out of his head, and he said "WHAT!?" He stormed off to confront the individual, but later came back to my table and asked me "Now, is the knife I purchased from you for real....or is it a kit too?"
My point is that because an individual was building "kit knives", marking them with his name, and not disclosing it, I, along with every other knifemaker, immediately became suspect in the eyes of that customer.
If full disclosure is made, then I have no issues with it, but not disclosing that knives are "kits", or "parts" is damaging to knifemakers, and the knifemaking community in general. It generates suspicion, and mistrust between knifemakers and clients, or potential clients.

Someone above my pay grade will have to make the decision as to whether individuals who make "kits" should be able to sell them on a given forum, or in a given location. My personal opinion is that I would not allow it.

 

[Remyrw]

I've done a few knives from premade blades and have tried to always be clear that the blade is NOT my work, even if I made changes to it. I don't think that type of work is in the same category or deserves to be called knife making.

I actually had this conversation with a friend who keeps bugging me to get into folders. I pointed out that I just do not have the experience to be comfortable with that yet, nor do I have some of the tools that would make it practical as anything but a one time thing. I have done a few kits, my edc is a Stinger from knifekits.com, but while I consider it something I built and tuned I do not consider it something I MADE. It's like the Ikea reference. Yeah, I put it together, and I even did a bunch of tuning and finishing, but it was just that, tuning and finishing, not design and manufacturing.

As for where to sell them, maybe we need a specific section for "hand assembled/finished" or something like that. I'm sure it would help my bottom line if I did a lot more of them, but this is where I've been selling so far and I'd like to continue here as much as possible. With the current setup I felt uncomfortable with the kitchen knife I sold even though I clearly indicated it was a premade blade. I've avoided repeating that despite the potential profit and satisfied customer.

 

[David Loukides]

I Have two thoughts on this topic.
First, will the person selling the factory blades that he only put the handle on be able to sell knives that have no attached handles as his custom made knives?
Second, I am a small time maker but still have close to 30k and 10yrs invested. There are short cuts and less expensive ways to make money. But if deceiving customers is what it takes to survive this trade I will stop selling and go back to giving away my work. Because....
I Love Making Custom Knives.
Those who have gone before me and paid there "dues" have done this trade Justus .
This is all my opinion.

 

[Los Angeles]

Before we call this guy all sorts of nasty names, let's be clear on something. I think the only thing that might be wrong in this process is not telling people that the blade was made elsewhere. And that's it.

I spend a lot of time and money in the for sale area and this must be a member that I've ignored for a long time because I can't think of who it might be.

I know in the past a few makers have used pre-made blanks but clearly stated the origin of the blanks. One maker specifically said the blade was from Alabama Damascus. I see no reason to ban this person from the knifemaker's for sale area. What forum is a better fit? I can't really think of a better fit, honestly.

In the end, I have no problem with a "maker" selling rehandled blanks in the knifemaker's for sale section so long as the blade's origin is clearly explained.

I also prefer to know what kind of steel it is, who did the heat treat, etc. Who ground the blade is more important than that stuff, but it is just one part of a complete package.

 

[tedinatl]

I agree with everyone else's sentiments. No issues with it as long as there is full disclosure about the origin of the blades.

 

[Darrin Sanders]

Maybe there should be a seperate section for kit knives. But they should definitely be up front about not making the blade. Not doing so is an insult to true makers and anyone who unknowingly buys one. My .02.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

You guys do know that Randall had most of his blades made in Germany?
While I agree that full disclosure is mandatory, the knives are "custom knives" or "customized knives" if they are built to the customer's specifications.
"Hand made" knives is a better description of what most makers do here.

 

[sunshadow]

If someone is assembling kit knives, putting handles on blanks etc. they are *NOT* a knifemaker. Randall if I am not mistaken contracted the manufacture of the blades that were made in Germany (designed them, specified the details of their construction etc.) I agree that the word "custom" is abused, it is only "custom" if the individual buying it specifies they would like a non-standard design item specially built, but that's another issue. I believe that someone putting hardware on blanks should not be selling the product in the "knifemakers" forum, that casts a shadow on everyone who actually *makes* knives. Perhaps there should be a forum for "assembled knives" so that Spark can still keep those members on the books

-Page

 

[David Schott]

I personally don't think kit knives belong in the knifemakers custom knives marketplace. I think they should be sold as customized production knives in the production area. I mainly believe this so that buyers dont need to worry about what they are getting in the makers area.

 

[Robert Parsons]

I don't consider him a custom knife maker. A monkey could be trained to put things together.

It is close to fraud in my opinion, kinda like counterfeit money.

Just my beginner opinion.

RP

 

[skilldust]

All I can say about these wantabes is they sure are missing out on 98% of the fun.
Jerry Bond---Knifemaker

 

[jdm61]

IIRC, the Scandinavian knifemakers who buy blades from Scandinavian bladesmiths, have the mark of the smith on the blade and normally tell you proudly who the smith was. Whilethat is different that how we do it, I don't have a problem with that because you know what you are getting. Otherwise, not so good. This is not the first time that I have heard of this. It must not be uncommon. Otherwise, those of us who occasionally set up at guns shows and such would not get that irritating question "who made the blade?"

 

[shaving sharp]

I think a more proper description would be "Hand Assembled". Pre-made blades are not handmade knives.I often ask a "maker" if they did the blade grind themselves just to be sure, especially if I do not recognize the maker.You find alot of these types of knives for sale on _bay listed as customs.A custom knife is one that is made from scratch by a true craftsman and artist.

 

[JC in SC]

Lets look at this from another perspective. If 'makers' who engage in this practice truly think they are still 'making' a custom knife, then why not be transparent in where the blade came from? If there isn't anything wrong with it, then why not disclose it? I think therein lies the answer.