Just Want Your opinions

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With me being new to all of this the simple remedy (in my eyes) would be to have a couple mandatory questions for each "for sale" add that the seller MUST include at the top (or bottom) of his listing. It must be in the format that this website lays out or there will be penalties.

Just brain storming here, but something like this maybe:
-steel type: D2
-Scale material: natural micarta
-pins: mosaic
-build method (reduction, kit, forge, ect..): blade only kit
-builder: John Doe
-work done: refine kit blade profile, heat treat, scales.


I am just thinking out loud here....hope you get the general idea I am trying to convey. :)
 
Carl_First_Timer said:
Where do people like this stand?
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Still knifemakers in the truest sense of the word. Making a knife by hand out of raw materials.

Same as a custom carpenter. Most carpenters (as a rule) don't mill their own lumber. But they build houses just the same. They don't use premade wall sections if they're custom home builders.

If you forge a knife or use stock removal, either way you're still making a knife from raw materials and hence, a knifemaker.
 
Dan Pierson said:
There are a number of stock removal makers on Bladeforums. They don't forge but do make the knife starting with a plain bar of steel. So did people like Bob Loveless...
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Well I still can't call grinding out a shape "knifemaker"ing. Though I wasn't trying to exclude stock removal work, and in doing so disrespect anyone.

There has to be an element of skill for the craft present. I cannot call it knifemaking, to assemble near fully produced parts.

So without getting caught in the terminology like last time, the knifemaker would use his skill to produce the knife from begining to end using skills of the trade, not skills of other people to make parts ready for assembly, its just too far removed from what is common to the term "knifemaking".

If kit knives are knife making, than aftermarket custom car work is engineering.
 
I am not sure I understand you. Are you saying stock removal guys are not knifemakers?

ron_m80 said:
Well I still can't call grinding out a shape "knifemaker"ing. Though I wasn't trying to exclude stock removal work, and in doing so disrespect anyone.

There has to be an element of skill for the craft present. I cannot call it knifemaking, to assemble near fully produced parts.

So without getting caught in the terminology like last time, the knifemaker would use his skill to produce the knife from begining to end using skills of the trade, not skills of other people to make parts ready for assembly, its just too far removed from what is common to the term "knifemaking".

If kit knives are knife making, than aftermarket custom car work is engineering.
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The Canadian guild defines it this way.
I think it's a reasonable definition.

"“Knifemaker” will be interpreted as “one who hand forges and / or grinds a knife free-hand from bar or billet - kit knives or pre-built blades will not be considered."
http://www.ckg.org/membership/


The maker in question should definitely disclose it in every sale post, and his sales should not be in the custom category.
 
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panch0 said:
I am not sure I understand you. Are you saying stock removal guys are not knifemakers?
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I think his first post sounded that way. That's how I took it as well, but the next post that you quote, Pancho, seems to clear it up.....I think:)
 
I have made/assembled/finished knives using pre-ground blades when I first discovered knifemaking. They got me started and I have enjoyed knifemaking as a hobby ever since. I have yet to sell a knife, so misrepresentation is not really an issue. I gave them away as gifts.

I am at a loss as to how to "label" a knife with the following pedigree. The blade was ground by Bob Engnath about 20 years ago, heat-treated by Paul Bos and finished by me.

Is it "hand-made"? Is it "custom"? It certainly is unique, reflecting my inexperience at shaping handles 20 years ago. I consider myself very fortunate to have been able to buy a number of blades from Bob and I treasure the ones I have left (still unfinished - Not for Sale).

I forge blades now and hopefully will finish some worthy of being sold with my name. I can certainly appreciate the perspective of a buyer/collector wary of purchasing knives of questionable origin. Bottom line - a person just needs to be honest in representing the origin of a knife. -Doug
 
I think Los Angelos is getting me wrong. I will be specific.
One knife is a Jantz AUS-6 fillet blade for $15, and a $10 handle block.He called it a custom fillet knife and wanted $120. He only admitted he purchased the blade when he was called on it by someone.

We aren't talking about Bo Randall, either. He called himself a dealer.
 
bladsmth said:
I think Los Angelos is getting me wrong. I will be specific.
One knife is a Jantz AUS-6 fillet blade for $15, and a $10 handle block.He called it a custom fillet knife and wanted $120. He only admitted he purchased the blade when he was called on it by someone.

We aren't talking about Bo Randall, either. He called himself a dealer.
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OK, I understand much better now. Thank you for explaining.
 
jonnymac44 said:
I think his first post sounded that way. That's how I took it as well, but the next post that you quote, Pancho, seems to clear it up.....I think:)
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Ok I wasn't sure, but it sure sounded like he hatin on us steel grinders.:cool:;)
 
I think if the word "custom" were never used by the knife community ever again, there would be a lot less confusion.
 
Los Angeles said:
I think if the word "custom" were never used by the knife community ever again, there would be a lot less confusion.
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L.A . he signs on as a knife maker , that is what is in question here . On his web site he states that he buys his blades from reputable manufactures , why not say so here ??
 
12345678910 said:
The Canadian guild defines it this way.
I think it's a reasonable definition.

"“Knifemaker” will be interpreted as “one who hand forges and / or grinds a knife free-hand from bar or billet - kit knives or pre-built blades will not be considered."
http://www.ckg.org/membership/
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So, Knifemakers aren't allowed to use jigs in Canada. Interesting, hehehe.

Simple solution, we need a new term. Blademaker, a higher level knife maker that includes the ability to make your own blades.
Being able make a handle is exactly an unskilled task. If one were to take a pre-made blade and fashion a linerlock out of it, would you state that they didn't make the knife? Handles are probably every bit as important as the blade and sometimes there is more skill in the handle than the blade. Not always, but sometimes.
 
My last post on this thread....I promise. Rather than establishing terms or changing what something is called, how about if people were just honest and open with what they do, and how they do it?? That's always been a part of the "Custom Knife" community, but because of deceit, in the name of making a buck, by those who are looking for an "angle", we are involved in this conversation.
We've always been a very good self-policing community, maybe it's time we showed a little backbone, and treated this type of individual for what they are....Scammers.
 
Ed Caffrey said:
My last post on this thread....I promise. Rather than establishing terms or changing what something is called, how about if people were just honest and open with what they do, and how they do it?? That's always been a part of the "Custom Knife" community, but because of deceit, in the name of making a buck, by those who are looking for an "angle", we are involved in this conversation.
We've always been a very good self-policing community, maybe it's time we showed a little backbone, and treated this type of individual for what they are....Scammers.
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Big +1 to this post, especially the part in bold. Well said, Ed. I was just about to post the same thought. Getting caught up in the semantics of 'custom' or 'knifemaker' is silly.
 
zaph1 said:
If one were to take a pre-made blade and fashion a linerlock out of it, would you state that they didn't make the knife?
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in a word
YES​

without the blade it is not a knife, someone else manufactured the blade, that means that someone else manufactured the most important part

-Page
 
I gotta say after figuring out who you're talking about, I think he's getting painted way worse in this thread than he really is.

HE SHOULD HAVE stated in the filet knife thread that it was a blade blank... but it wasn't like he made a huge thing of it. Danbo asked where he got AUS-8 barstock and this guy posted a link to where he bought the blank. That's not really going out of your way to hide things.

And as far as his website... I read it differently than Jack did. I read it as steel manufacturers... not blade manufacturers... except for the Russian guy with the wootz.

Read it for yourself and decide :)

"My blades are either made out of the best quality steel available from the most reputable manufacturers and individually tempered, or individually produced by the renowned Russian blacksmith, Ivan Kirpichev, one of the best maker of Wootz in the world, which is also known as Russian Bulat, the crucible patterned steel."

He has a Bader grinder and a lot of blades made out of things like ATS-34 and S30V. I think the guy can make a knife all on his own.... apparently he just can't or didn't want to grind a filet knife.

Again, he should have said what it was right in the first post... But in fairness to him... I think he's really getting hung out to dry without all the information being presented.


Edited to add.... And obviously (IMHO) English is not his first language and I think the part in this thread about eastern people fashioning knives from blades made by other people is very important to all of this.
 
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