Kali done with Khukri's

G

Ghost Kobun

Joined
Jul 8, 2005
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New here: I appoligies if this topic has been covered.

In my applications of Kali I have introduced the double Khukri. Actually I use one classical Khukri & a Chukuri ( Hybrid KHukuri ).

Any thoughts on this,
 
I don't see any reason why not to do Kali drills with a Kukri. I'm not brave enough to use two live blades at the same time though. :)
 
I don't claim to have much knowledge of FMA but it would seem to me that your thrusting techniques would need some modification. Other than that, I think that many of the cutting techniques would be pretty well suited to the Khukuri :cool:
 
Hello Ghost Kobun,

I teach Kukri both in my Martial System and to the British forces, what I would say is look at the kukri shape first and build it up from there.
We employ a basic ten cut drill to the main target areas on the human body and then a basic ten block drill that reflect exactly the ten basic cut drill, and it all builds up from there.

Obviously use your kali as a guide, but generaly speaking the best weapon systems in the world are built up around the weapon itself.

Also its important to use kukri that are authentic in manufacture, things to look out for in a poorley made kukri, are;
1/ To staight a handle
2/ Habaki bolster
3/ Cho creep
4/ Too thick a spine
5/ To rounded a point

Pics below, the top one is very poorly made modern kukri, the bottom one is a good quality authentic modern kukri

2005-07-11_081827_kukstogeth.jpg


Cheers Simon
 
Well I have been using Himalayan Imports khukris, that feature all of the "poorly made" signs for years, and have been quite happy with their suitability for FMA. Im not sure why the features listed, that are unique to HI khukris (well at least in regards to the tip the model of HI khukri pictured), qualify them as "poorly made", but I have never been but 100% satisfied with their quality and suitability for general use, as well as martial arts usage. Particularly since none of these features listed in particular reflect blade quality or craftmanship quality, something that has long plagued khukri reputation as many of the cheap Indian made tourist khukris, that feature none of the HI trademarks, bare un-hardened blades, and are of overall poor craftsmanship.

As for using khukris for FMA, why not. For many FMA styles, a percussive strike is favored, and the way a khukri is set up for chopping style cuts is very compatible.
Sirupate said:
Hello Ghost Kobun,

I teach Kukri both in my Martial System and to the British forces, what I would say is look at the kukri shape first and build it up from there.
We employ a basic ten cut drill to the main target areas on the human body and then a basic ten block drill that reflect exactly the ten basic cut drill, and it all builds up from there.

Obviously use your kali as a guide, but generaly speaking the best weapon systems in the world are built up around the weapon itself.

Also its important to use kukri that are authentic in manufacture, things to look out for in a poorley made kukri, are;
1/ To staight a handle
2/ Habaki bolster
3/ Cho creep
4/ Too thick a spine
5/ To rounded a point

Pics below, the top one is very poorly made modern kukri, the bottom one is a good quality authentic modern kukri

2005-07-11_081827_kukstogeth.jpg


Cheers Simon
Click to expand...
 
Sirupate said:
Also its important to use kukri that are authentic in manufacture, things to look out for in a poorley made kukri, are;
1/ To staight a handle
2/ Habaki bolster
3/ Cho creep
4/ Too thick a spine
5/ To rounded a point

Cheers Simon
Click to expand...

Wow. "Too thick a spine" and "too rounded a point" are signs of a poorly made kukri? :rolleyes:

Your whole list is nothing but a list of occasionally (though not always) present H.I. traits. Why not just come out and say you have some agenda against H.I.? Or is english not your first language and the semantical difference between suitability and construction quality are not clear to you?

The two traits I listed above may make a blade less ideal for personal defense (as opposed to chopping inanimate objects) but they really have NOTHING to do with whether a blade is poorly made.

I also don't see why (all other things being equal) having a cho moved forward 1cm makes any difference at all to the suitability for combat, let alone construction quality.

How about whether the blade can take/hold an edge? The heat treat? Whether the handle will last? These seem more like true signs of poorly- or well-made construction.
In the realm of personal preference, how about how the blade is balanced and whether the handle fits your hand?



Edit: Oh, wait. You sell a competing brand of kukri. Gosh, forgot to mention that, didn't you? Very classy.
 
"You sell a competing brand of kukri. Gosh, forgot to mention that, didn't you? Very classy."

Agreed. That was a cheap shot there Federico. This is supposed to be a place to exchange knowledge & information. There isn't much room for disparaging other knife makers in order to sell your blades and I can't speak for anyone else but I have "0 tolerance" for that approach personally.

BTW, my point about modifying your thrusting has absolutely nothing to do with point style & absolutely everything to do with technique. The "slicing" "circular" (okay, half circular?) type thrusts I learned in FMA are not suited to the Khuk's forward curving blade, though those were not the only thrusting techniques we were taught...

Again, I'm no FMA expert but I have a passing familiarity with both the FMA and the Khukri. ...And I'd very much like to get my hands on one of those "blunt tipped" (NOT!) poor quality (absolutely NOT) blades from HI - you know the ones with the "if you can break it will give you two" warranties!!!

So if you can't tell, IMO, HI rocks ;)
 
: Oh, wait. You sell a competing brand of kukri. Gosh, forgot to mention that, didn't you? Very classy.
Click to expand...


OWNED. Too bad you needed to make those claims. You had some pretty decent knowledge on some other posts.
 
First of, I am not out to promote my brand hence I did not mention my brands name, and what I said is to do with getting the right feel of a good quality kukri.
If you are going to use a kukri for MA, you should at least have a kukri that truly reflects what kukri were and should be all about. So when you practice you get a genuine feel of what kukri could do traditionally or not, otherwise why use a kukri??
All the points mentioned are truly signs of a poorly made kukri, ask any of the Worlds top experts on historical kukri (of which I am one of them), and they will tell you the very same thing. The only exception is spine thickness, on some of the older models pre WWI there were some models with spine thicknesses 8-10mm.
Another point brought up was about the cho creep not having much of an impact, lets consider this;
1/ In Nepal its definately considered a sign of a poorly made kukri.
2/ In the case of the kukri we are talking about, the cho creep is about 3cm, this badly affects the potential edge shape and the balance of the kukri.

Another point brought up was about the point (no pun intended), of course the shape of the point makes a difference (by the way in Nepal that type of point is considered a poor finish and a sign of a rushed kukri). Traditional kukri have sharp points so you can stab more effectively with them as well cut.

Another thing, I have been involved with kukri for some 38 years, taught how to use them by British Gurkha Officers who have used them for real in WWII, and by Gurkhas.

small_jeet.jpg


"I thoroughly recommend Simon's kukri. Simons knowledge about the Gurkhas is second to none and his expertise and techniques in the combat use of the kukri are amongst the best I have ever seen."

Jeet Bahadur Sahi, Staff Sergeant - Gurkhas

11.jpg


"Presented to Simon Hengle by Shree Dhar Bhujel, the close quarter combat instructor of the Royal Nepalese Gorkha Commandos for his skills with a khukuri and hand to hand combat. September 2001."

2005-06-23_143334_new_kukri_005.jpg


Simon,

Many thanks for the instruction on the application of the kukri, the two days have been a real eye-opener on this well respected waepon.
As part of the RAF Regiment Unarmed Combat Team we will look forward to "Educating the Lads!" on the kukri.
Once again many thanks,

Cpl Gavin Rogers JNCO RRPT (RAF Regiment Close Quarter Combat Expert)

If you have any questions about the combat use of the kukri I will be glad to answer them.

Cheers Simon
 
Well Sirs I am sitting here on around a hundred serious military antique kukri & I have to say if you wish to buy 45% degree angle points, half inch thick spines & kaudi 1 inch from the handle to hide the poor spine handle joints under the bolster , tottaly against all tradition of kukri.{or cho as you less educated people say} then do so they are great for cutting kindling.{but so is $2.50 chinese axe.}

OIther than that I suggest you handle serious antique military kukri , or the modern but accurRATE tORA copies of them & THEN YOU CAN SPEAK FROM AN INFORMED STAnD POINT RATHER THAN AN UNDERSTADBLE DEFENSIVERNES BECAUSRE YOU ALRAEDY LIKE WHAT YOU OWN. & DONT WISH TO UNDERSTAND THAT KUKRI HAVE A LOT MORE TO THEM THAN YOU HAVE SO FAR LEAernt.

Knowledge will help you grow!

Not shouting ,just an accidental caps lock!

But I speak from the heart.

kukrilove!
 
Sirupate said:
Also its important to use kukri that are authentic in manufacture, things to look out for in a poorley made kukri ...
Click to expand...
Not all khukuris are designed for the same purpose, features which would make it performly poorly for some applications may enhance its performance in others. That being said HI makes khukuris of the style you describe such as :

http://www.himalayan-imports.com/m43 - by burha.JPG

-Cliff
 
You know something Simon, I thought you were better than that. Previously you were respectful and fairly honest with your posts in the HI forum, and I was impressed when you left without a fuss when asked. Now that Uncle Bill and Rusty are gone you're here on bladeforums pointing out all of the undesirable features on that "poor quality" WWII. Nice job picking out the one model in HI's lineup with a rounded tip. As Cliff pointed out, there are a wide variety of styles to choose from. I'm no martial artist, but I will not sit here and watch this man put down HI products yet again. If you want a MA khukuri, buy a Sirupati, a Kobra, or a Malla, that's what they're made for. Perhaps HI's line doesn't include your ideal khukuri; great, that's why there are plenty of others to choose from. But don't you dare say again that they're of inferior quality. You don't have to put down someone else's product to build up your own. Let it stand on it's own merit (unless of course it can't). I sincerely wish you all that you deserve in this life Simon.
 
I own many high quality knives. I made my first purchase from HI, it was a Sirupati which I gave to my father as a gift. It was hard to hand over and I am eagerly awaiting the opportunity (funds) to buy one for myself.

Methinks Kukrilove is possibly one of 3 personalities belonging to one person. I am no moderator, but IMHO he should tone down the arrogance before everybody makes up their mind about him. However, it's too late for me.

Welcome to BFC. ;)

Keep it up and I may find myself saying good bye to you as well.
 
Nevermind what I first wrote.

As was mentioned elsewhere, the downfall to badmouthing another company's product is that it can influence new people who aren't familiar with the subtleties of what they offer.

Simon, why did you choose the WWII model by HI? It intentionally has a rounded tip. Or maybe you didn't know this. But after 38 years dealing with kukris, one would think you would have seen a few variations, no?

Then you post a picture of what looks like a spitting image of an HI M43 ...

You're a curious fellow to be sure.

Bamboo
 
Simon's claim to fame has been a faithful rendition of khukuris. His khuks are tailored to those wanting a historical reproduction. That is not to say that HI khuks do not do this also, but they also have a much wider variation. The sheer variety of HI khuks is a top selling point.

When Simon has sold 20,000 khuks with the same guarentee as HI, we can talk about quality.

I think Tora's khuks are wonderful. I just would find a way to say that without putting down the best known distributor in the world- HI.

To be sure, HI does do things differently. There are strictly martial blades, and there are traditional bolsters. But there are also modern visions of this form- much stronger than traditional.

I would be very sad to see this subject discussed with rancor. This is my personal opinion, and does not reflect the managment of HI. HI is the leading distributor/manufacturer of khukuris in the world, and I doubt very much if they or their vast customer base is threatened by Simon's remarks.


munk
 
I do think you chaps have rather missed the point, but thats up to you and its you that have turned it into a HI thing versus somebody else.

Bamboo I did not choose the HI WWII model it was sent to my fiancee.
Technically the HIM43 is much closer to the MKII, but even then there are quite a few differences, for it to be historically acurate.

Original M43 underneath;
24D_m43.jpg


Again I go back to the original idea behind my post, which is, if you want to practise with kukri and get a genuine feel for kukri from a Martial perspective, it is of course best to use kukri that are truly a reflection of what was used militarily in the past, and not use modern day tourist type models, as they are not what kukri were all about and will give you a truly false impression of kukri.

I suggest you read what kukrilove has to say; he has a point. Before you criticise what I have to say I suggest you re-search kukri and buy some good quality antique kukri to compare, it will benifit your knowledge quite a bit.

It is a shame you have taken the advice in the wrong way, because it was very good advice.

Cheers Simon
 
Munk is absolutley correct :D I am talking about historical accurasy and that is the way I look at kukri, and I personally feel that from a martial perspective to get the right feel about kukri in combat one should use authenticly accurate kukri.
HI has built its reputation up in a very different way, and will continue to offer its well renowned sevice to its customers :D

Cheers Simon
 
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