Kershaw Spine Whack Fail

[Mudbug007]

I have literally never used a knife in a way that puts pressure on the spine this way. I can't even think of a conceivable reason to do something like beat the spine of your knife on anything. As such, this test tells absolutely nothing about the value of a knife. If I can't push the knife closed with my hands the lock is PLENTY strong for literally every cutting task I can imagine.

Well said. I've been using knives for over 30 years now. I've used just about every kind of knife you can imagine and in all that time, I've only had one knife close on me while in use. It was a Buck pocket knife and the spey blade closed on my finger while using it as a screwdriver. Got a nice little scar on my trigger finger. Blade went nearly to the bone. Lesson learned.

I've always considered the lock on a knife as the weak point. I thought that was common knowledge, but after seeing some comments here, I guess not. I've used liner/frame locks in construction, in the field camping and hunting and a thousand and one other places. Never had a failure. But then again, I generally choose the knife for the job at hand and don't go around trying to make a knife fail. I can make any knife fail, including fixed blades, but that doesn't mean they're bad. It just means I used it in a way it wasn't intended for.

Just as you never trust the safety on a gun, you should never trust the lock on a liner/frame lock (again, I thought that was common knowledge). When used as intended, they work just as well as anything.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Well said. I've been using knives for over 30 years now. I've used just about every kind of knife you can imagine and in all that time, I've only had one knife close on me while in use. It was a Buck pocket knife and the spey blade closed on my finger while using it as a screwdriver. Got a nice little scar on my trigger finger. Blade went nearly to the bone. Lesson learned.

I've always considered the lock on a knife as the weak point. I thought that was common knowledge, but after seeing some comments here, I guess not. I've used liner/frame locks in construction, in the field camping and hunting and a thousand and one other places. Never had a failure. But then again, I generally choose the knife for the job at hand and don't go around trying to make a knife fail. I can make any knife fail, including fixed blades, but that doesn't mean they're bad. It just means I used it in a way it wasn't intended for.

Just as you never trust the safety on a gun, you should never trust the lock on a liner/frame lock (again, I thought that was common knowledge). When used as intended, they work just as well as anything.

When used as intended cars don't require seatbelts, airbags or crumple zones. I honestly don't bave a problem withknives that don't lock as I don't intend to make use of the lock in my day-to-day, but if you advertise and include a safety feature I do like to know that it does something to keep me safe.

 

[Luis G.]

When used as intended cars don't require seatbelts, airbags or crumple zones. I honestly don't bave a problem withknives that don't lock as I don't intend to make use of the lock in my day-to-day, but if you advertise and include a safety feature I do like to know that it does something to keep me safe.

Great analogy and example.
If simple hand pressure should disengage a lock, why not just make every knife a slippie if one really shouldn't rely on the locking mechanism

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I just really fail to understand the "I cut with the sharp edge of the knife" argument. I drive with the bottom side of the car on the road, but I still like functional rollbar. I ride on top of the jetski, but I still want my lifejacket to float. There are many, many safety features I never intend to make use of, but I'm still gonna be mad if they're shown to be ineffective.

 

[mr_anderson]

Greg Medford from Medford Knife & Tool checks every knife that goes out with a spine whack.

 

[m@tt]

Damn...I'm going to go test a couple of mine. Thanks for the vid.

 

[Karda]

When used as intended cars don't require seatbelts, airbags or crumple zones. I honestly don't bave a problem withknives that don't lock as I don't intend to make use of the lock in my day-to-day, but if you advertise and include a safety feature I do like to know that it does something to keep me safe.

Great analogy and example.
If simple hand pressure should disengage a lock, why not just make every knife a slippie if one really shouldn't rely on the locking mechanism

I just really fail to understand the "I cut with the sharp edge of the knife" argument. I drive with the bottom side of the car on the road, but I still like functional rollbar. I ride on top of the jetski, but I still want my lifejacket to float. There are many, many safety features I never intend to make use of, but I'm still gonna be mad if they're shown to be ineffective.

Greg Medford from Medford Knife & Tool checks every knife that goes out with a spine whack.

But, if you guys crash your car into a wall to check/test whether the safety features work without fail, do you honestly think it is proper and that no one will think you didn't damage the car? Do you expect to be taken seriously for doing so?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

But, if you guys crash your car into a wall to check/test whether the safety features work without fail, do you honestly think it is proper and that no one will think you didn't damage the car? Do you expect to be taken seriously for doing so?

But car companies have a number of independent companies that do exactly that under controlled conditions. There's not an analogous body for knife testing. I would love to see one, though.

 

[1234]

I too have a ZT 0350 and I just whacked it much harder than you did in your vid , and the lock held up just fine.

Now because you made more than one lock fail I have a question , is there anything on the lock faces on your knives,
oil , graphite , etc, ?

1234,,,

 

[Karda]

But car companies have a number of independent companies that do exactly that under controlled conditions. There's not an analogous body for knife testing. I would love to see one, though.

So they do.
And car prices still rise because of the price of such testing.
By all means keep wishing for such.
Then don't complain when you have to take out a loan to buy your knives.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

So they do.
And car prices still rise because of the price of such testing.
By all means keep wishing for such.
Then don't complain when you have to take out a loan to buy your knives.

I understand it's economically impractical and I don't expect to see one. Knives are too much of a niche market item and the profit margin is too slender. But I think that makes it all the more reasonable for someone to test knives like this and share the results.

 

[Karda]

I understand it's economically impractical and I don't expect to see one. Knives are too much of a niche market item and the profit margin is too slender. But I think that makes it all the more reasonable for someone to test knives like this and share the results.

Then you'll likely be in possession of many damaged and then discontinued knives.
Why would a manufacturer choose to continue to produce something some people will go out of their way/the norm to find fault in?

 

[crom]

If it'll fail that easily it's probable that a hard grip would disengage the bar as well. Maybe it's because you have used it so heavily?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Then you'll likely be in possession of many damaged and then discontinued knives.
Why would a manufacturer choose to continue to produce something some people will go out of their way/the norm to find fault in?

I don't believe testing something, even testing it to the point of failure, is finding fault in it. It's getting more information about the product. I don't think a bad lock makes a bad knife, I quite like slip joints, but I think it's worth getting as much information about a product as possible before spending your money on it.

 

[crom]

I don't spine tap or whack but I've passed on more than one liner lock folder by popular brands because I could get the knife to partially and sometimes fully unlock with a hard grip. Call it whatever you want but that doesn't give me a feeling of security. One such knife was the mini Cyclone, I loved that knife too but I just didn't trust it. I have half a dozen liner lock Kershaws that do NOT do this and I still use most of them.

 

[Twindog]

What is going on in this thread? The OP's large folder failed from very, very light taps and from just hand pressure. That is not abuse. If one of the scales fell off your slipjoint from such gentle tapping, would you blame yourself for abusing the knife? Would you say knives don't need scales -- the liners alone work just fine?

I use large folders. They all have good locks. One of the daily chores with my knife is to whack off branches that grow over my trail and road. Without a proper lock, the blade would swing down into my fingers.

When I was cutting away excess foam insulation in my cabin, using a bit of a twisting action, the 0560 that I was using released because the twisting action caused my fingers to actually release the lock. Not really the fault of the knife, but the point is that using a knife can often put downward pressure on the lock -- in this case from pushing the tip into the foam insulation to cut off the excess.

The slipjoint ideologues think no folder should have a lock. The fixed-blade ideologues think that every folder is a broken knife. Fine, use what you like. But for those of us who actually use folding knives with a lock -- especially the large folders -- we like to think the lock actually works AND has a good bit of a safety margin built into the lock.

 

[Karda]

What is going on in this thread? The OP's large folder failed from very, very light taps and from just hand pressure. That is not abuse. If one of the scales fell off your slipjoint from such gentle tapping, would you blame yourself for abusing the knife? Would you say knives don't need scales -- the liners alone work just fine?

I use large folders. They all have good locks. One of the daily chores with my knife is to whack off branches that grow over my trail and road. Without a proper lock, the blade would swing down into my fingers.

When I was cutting away excess foam insulation in my cabin, using a bit of a twisting action, the 0560 that I was using released because the twisting action caused my fingers to actually release the lock. Not really the fault of the knife, but the point is that using a knife can often put downward pressure on the lock -- in this case from pushing the tip into the foam insulation to cut off the excess.

The slipjoint ideologues think no folder should have a lock. The fixed-blade ideologues think that every folder is a broken knife. Fine, use what you like. But for those of us who actually use folding knives with a lock -- especially the large folders -- we like to think the lock actually works AND has a good bit of a safety margin built into the lock.

If the scales fell off my slipjoint from light tapping, I would first acknowledge that my behavior may have contributed in some way to causing it.
If the scales fell off, it would likely be a warrantable defect.
Folding knives by their design have some inherent risk. A risk that is known both by the manufacturer and the end user.
Which means that the user bears some responsibility in proper usage.
Because a knife is used (or tested) improperly and fails, doesn't mean it is automatically faulty and the manufacturer is solely to blame.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

If the scales fell off my slipjoint from light tapping, I would first acknowledge that my behavior may have contributed in some way to causing it.
If the scales fell off, it would likely be a warrantable defect.
Folding knives by their design have some inherent risk. A risk that is known both by the manufacturer and the end user.
Which means that the user bears some responsibility in proper usage.
Because a knife is used (or tested) improperly and fails, doesn't mean it is automatically faulty and the manufacturer is solely to blame.

This I 100% agree with. And, particularly witb a small sample size, it doesn't indicate a design flaw necessarily. I still think it's a worthwhile test that can give interesting information.

 

[Luis G.]

But, if you guys crash your car into a wall to check/test whether the safety features work without fail, do you honestly think it is proper and that no one will think you didn't damage the car? Do you expect to be taken seriously for doing so?

That's why there's dummy drivers, and car crash testing facilities which are mandatory in the USA to sell a car. You can't just sell a car with untested safety mechanism, a human life is NOT something to gamble with.
Someone has to crash those cars (obviously not using real humans). It has to be tested, you cannot simply ask your customer: Hey customer I haven't tested the lock on this knife (or seat belt on a car), can you please find out with your limbs and life if it works? By the way if it fails, I will just blame it on customer abuse. It is called accountability, and that's why R&D is something that is sorely lacking in many products (Not just knives). It's also why cars may take years before they are released because doing otherwise is costly in both money and more importantly human lives.

I honestly think that EVEN abuse videos do far more for consumers than videos where knives are praised to death on a tabletop. One shows you what not to do, the other shows you how to set up a camera and lights and how to praise knives. Not that there's anything wrong with either type of video each has their place. This is why I am willing to put up expensive knives through a battery of abusive but possible realistic tests, because it does more for the consumer than me doing a video praising a knife. Keep your eyes out, because my Shot show 2013 model will go through a battery of tests just like my ZT 561.

Karda, no one here is holding Kershaw responsible for wear and tear or damage caused by the user (even though you cannot prove that the user did indeed damage it). The OP is holding Kershaw responsible for creating 3 different knives owned by himself where the safety mechanisms fail under questionably light pressure. Is it really such a bad thing to hold a company accountable for a SAFETY mechanism which fails where most other knives do just fine?

I have a $10 Bee Enlan liner lock that doesn't fail even with abusive spine whacks. I also have tested a lot of knives including Zero tolerance knives which have not failed in this manner.
What can I conclude from my small unscientific baseline? Knives shouldn't fail because of light spine whacks.

 

[Karda]

That's why there's dummy drivers, and car crash testing facilities which are mandatory in the USA to sell a car. You can't just sell a car with untested safety mechanism, a human life is NOT something to gamble with.
Someone has to crash those cars (obviously not using real humans). It has to be tested, you cannot simply ask your customer: Hey customer I haven't tested the lock on this knife (or seat belt on a car), can you please find out with your limbs and life if it works? By the way if it fails, I will just blame it on customer abuse. It is called accountability, and that's why R&D is something that is sorely lacking in many products (Not just knives). It's also why cars may take years before they are released because doing otherwise is costly in both money and more importantly human lives.

I honestly think that EVEN abuse videos do far more for consumers than videos where knives are praised to death on a tabletop. One shows you what not to do, the other shows you how to set up a camera and lights and how to praise knives. Not that there's anything wrong with either type of video each has their place. This is why I am willing to put up expensive knives through a battery of abusive but possible realistic tests, because it does more for the consumer than me doing a video praising a knife. Keep your eyes out, because my Shot show 2013 model will go through a battery of tests just like my ZT 561.

Karda, no one here is holding Kershaw responsible for wear and tear or damage caused by the user (even though you cannot prove that the user did indeed damage it). The OP is holding Kershaw responsible for creating 3 different knives owned by himself where the safety mechanisms fail under questionably light pressure. Is it really such a bad thing to hold a company accountable for a SAFETY mechanism which fails where most other knives do just fine?

I have a $10 Bee Enlan liner lock that doesn't fail even with abusive spine whacks. I also have tested a lot of knives including Zero tolerance knives which have not failed in this manner.
What can I conclude from my small unscientific baseline? Knives shouldn't fail because of light spine whacks.

Which is why I consider spine whacking invalid and abusive. Who in their right mind is going to spine whack a knife during its intended usage?
As I said before the design has a known inherently liability that the end user is responsible for having enough thought to comprehend and watch for. Therefore that user should use the knife carefully and as intended because they know it can fold as intended by design.