Kershaw Spine Whack Fail

[Karda]

I'm bad at recognizing sarcasm. If you are being genuine, thanks! If not... well... ok.

I was being genuine.
I rarely try to be sarcastic as it usually doesn't translate well in a forum setting and is often lost on those whom would rather argue than learn.

 

[mqqn]

The locking knife has huge advantages over the slipjoint: it allows easy,one-handed opening...

You can set up a slip joint to be able to open with one hand, and this has zero to do with a locking mechanism. Your point?

... and it allows a very large blade to be used safely. ....

I can handle using either a slip joint, or a friction folder, or a fixed blade, and none of those have locks. I can do so easily, and with confidence, never being in fear of cutting myself. Your point?

If you don't like the lock on a locking folder, what are you going to replace it with? A detent spring? Are you just going to let the blade swing freely?

I did not say that I did not like locks on folding knives, in fact most of my knives have them. However, it is not required as a safety device to keep me from harming myself with the knife. A slip joint has a spring that keeps the knife from "freely swinging".

Comparing a slipjoint to a locking folder is like comparing a slipjoint to a fixed blade. They are very different.

Au contraire, comparing a slip joint folding knife to a locking folding knife is very appropriate in a conversation where some are feeling unsafe that their knife does not lock up. The slip joint does not prevent one from injury from mis-use or careless use of the cutting too. Neither does a fixed blade, by the way, but since they don't fold, I did not bring them up.


What exactly is your point? If it is simply that one should be able to rely on a lock to prevent them harm from any possible use they may put the knife to task with, then that is not correct thinking in my opinion.

Your opinion may not be the same and it is your right to think what you want.

best

mqqn

 

[mwhich50]

Thanks for the info. I knew there was a reason I was attracted to Cold Steel besides the reasonable prices and the great asthetics. I know how people are on this forum about using knives for emergency self defense. I do carry daily and knowing which will probably fail and why is good info. I will still take my chances and rotate all of knives though.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

The point is that you are using a knife to cut. If you have to rely on a locking mechanism to keep you from being injured, maybe you are in the wrong hobby.

best

mqqn

Must have been a few people that cut their fingers with slip joints. Else we wouldn't have needed to invent locks.

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

If you don't like the lock on a locking folder, what are you going to replace it with? A detent spring? Are you just going to let the blade swing freely?

You must be extremely afraid of friction folders then, especially when the pivot is not so tight? Yet, that's what people used for centuries without cutting their own fingers off, atleast as far as I know.


A general remark: I must agree with karda on this. I like my locking folders, my non-locking folders (slip/friction), my fixed blades and my utility blades. What pretty much everything revolves around is to use the right tool for the right job.
On the example of using a folder to cut drywall... Can it be done? Yes, sure. Is it wise? No. Why is it not wise? There are better tools out there that do the job better because they're designed to do it.
Whacking branches from your driveway? Please get a large fixed blade, axe or something that is made to withstand whacking on stuff instead of cutting things.

Yes, you can probably do a variety of things with locking and/or non-locking folding knives that can be done better with another tool. If you don't have that other tool, go get one. If you really have to use whatever you have with you at a given time, and you can't wait with what you're intending to do: go ahead and use what you have on you, but keep in mind the limitations of that tool. Personally, I don't expect a folding knife to hold up to cutting drywall. It might, but it might as well not. I wouldn't want to take the risk, and grab the appropriate tool. If you do expect it to hold up under any kind of stress, than you and I have different expectations and maybe we should leave it at that .

 

[mqqn]

Must have been a few people that cut their fingers with slip joints. Else we wouldn't have needed to invent locks.

Possibly, but they also invented cheese head hats and snuggies, so potentially it was a marketing play more than a need.

And, doggone it, I forgot to put my locking clip-on folding knife in my pocket today! I never do that, but I was hurried and out of my game.

I usually use my slip joint to quarter my apple, so all was not lost.

I have had some locking knives with which I could get the lockbar to "unlock" if I grasped the blade in one hand and the handle in another and work the blade up-and-down against the lockbar.

If they are designed to lock, they should stay locked until I unlock them, I agree with that sentiment.

I like the idea of the roto-block "lock on a lock" that some of the Lionsteel knives saport; that takes lock failure out of the picture as far as I can tell.

best

mqqn

 

[Galeocerdoshark]

Must have been a few people that cut their fingers with slip joints. Else we wouldn't have needed to invent locks.

Having fixed blades for centuries and recently having locking blades never kept anyone from cutting themselves with those knives either.

 

[Poleaxe]

I think people are missing the most simple point of all this...If your folder fails a spine wack test and another just laughs at it..Maybe that is a cause for concern? Meaning, Fans of kershaw,etc can say what they wanna say and defend what they wanna defend but the fact remains. When The tri-ad lock and others are able to handle these tests, then what? Who's at fault or where is the mistake when other products on the market can outperform your lock? Shouldn't a $100+ or $200+ tactical folder be able to hang with a 60$ coldsteel?

 

[sticktodrum]

I've had several Pistons and 0350s pass through my hands. Did some spine whack tests on one Piston and two 0350s. Never a budge out of any of them.

The OP's knives must be defective, especially that blem 0350.

 

[Nuke]

I had a Skyline that disengaged easily, even when the lock appeared to be properly engaged. Sent it back to Kershaw and now it locks up solid and stays there.

 

[poolhustler]

What ever happened to using the right tool for the job? If any task that I am doing may cause hard whack on the spine of my folder, I'll grab a more suitable tool.....

 

[midnight flyer]

I'm not a big fan of spine whacking, but it does reasonably simulate end user usage. Consider the drywall guy who uses his ZT 0200 to install an electrical outlet. He stabs and saws and pries the drywall, and in so doing imparts forces the lock which the spine whack simulates. He gets grumpy because his blade is stuck in the wall stud, so he gets more aggressive with the up and down forces in order to remove the blade. Thats completely foreseeable, and completely within the intended usage (in my view) of a knife "built to stand up to heavy-duty use and harsh, real-world conditions." Link.

The drywall guy reasonably expects the blade not to close on his fingers in "heavy-duty use and harsh, real-world conditions". Ergo, the lock is a safety mechanism. Spine whacking - while imperfect - imparts forces on the lock which reasonably simulate real world usage: the stabbing, sawing, twisting and digging that a 22 year old drywall guy hopped up on Mountain Dew and nicotine will do to his knife during the course of the day. If a knife fails a spine whack, the drywall guy shouldn't be using it.

WOW. 40 years in the trades, and I have never seen a professional drywall hanger use a folding knife to cut sheet rock to length, saw (seriously, saw with a knife?), stab (stab?), or dig (not sure how to dig sheet rock) sheet rock unless it is an extreme emergency using a folding knife.

Certainly, never for more than a cut or two when your proper tool wasn't handy. We construction folk can be viewed as real savages by our more cosmopolitan, erudite fellow man, but we also have the correct tools to do the job. A $4 razor/utility knife is the cutter of choice, and for sawing... well a sheet rock saw works pretty dog gone well.

I felt like I was listening to my 84 year old neighbor when I read that post.

"You know how workers are these days, hopped up on marijuana all day long, stoned out of their minds on all kinds of drugs all the time. With all the uppers and downers, they don't know if they are coming or going and it's a wonder they don't kill each other. Whyyyy in my day, men were men and we knew how to do things right, we were respectful and hard working and always did the right things. Not like these damn hopheads you see everywhere. And smart mouths... all them smarty pants! Those guys need to be taught a lesson!"

That was frickin' hilarious. Repeat after me: "YOU KIDS GET OUT OF MY YARD!!"

Robert

 

[JuJu-]

So much misinformation. I would strongly recommend if people want to know the truth, to get on youtube.

Ah hahahahaha! You know everything they say on the internet is true right? Where did you here that? Oh the internet...!

Because youtube is a plethora of awesome knowledge! I will say there are a couple knowledgeable people on there but its not where I go for my information.

 

[Sam Wilson]

I don't understand a lot of these "tests" that knives are subjected to. A knife is made to cut. Some knives will chop, or can be thrown, or other things, but in general, especially folders like these being discussed, are designed to cut, and that's generally about it. Obviously, there are special purpose knives, as well. I won't say that there is necessarily nothing to be learned by "spine whacking" and other tests, but usually it's not much. As far as more expensive knives not far exceeding cheaper knives' performances in some of these tests, that doesn't necessarily mean much, either.

It reminds me of when that hockey mask guy was batonning a Chris Reeve Project knife with a small sledge, and the blade snapped. People were quick to point out that the $10 Sportsman's Guide knife took much more abuse. Does that make it a better knife? Not in my opinion. It tells me that it can probably take more hits to the spine with a sledge hammer than a Project I, but I believe that Mr. Reeve didn't design his knife to absorb sledge hits. I believe that he designed them to cut well, hold an edge, provide a satisfying experience, have very long-lasting quality, etc.

I believe that locks were added to many of these knives to provide a safer experience, not make them unfoldable. Of course the blade shouldn't fold on you when the lock is engaged, but keep in mind the materials, design, and tolerances of the tool you're using, also. For some reason, there's a craze of people wanting knives, especially lower to mid quality folders, to be able to do any task set before them, without ever folding, failing, getting dull, chipping, rolling, the coating getting scratched, blade play developing, etc. Use a knife, especially a folder, knowing that it has limitations. If you use a tool, any tool, outside of its' design parameters, you should expect failure. You may or may not get failure, depending on a variety of factors, chance being one of them. But you should expect it.

 

[B.F.U]

I forget who said it and don't feel like looking through the whole thread, but I think someone made a good point when they quoted the manufacturers motto (or just their site, I can't remember). No, a folding knife isn't the right tool for every job. And yeah, drywalling is not one of those jobs it is necessarily right for. But if the manufacturer says it's ready for hard use real world whatever, It shouldn't fail so dangerously and easily when force is applied in one particular direction.

And i think it is a bit ridiculous to insinuate or out right say a folding knife is only meant for slicing. If so, wouldn't every folding knife be a nice ffg sheepsfoot? Many things need to be pierced ("stabbed"), and many things must be pierced in order to slice them. I don't want to have to worry when I'm opening a package that if I put slight pressure in the wrong direction my (hopefully, very sharp) blade will close on my fingers.

I also think it's a bit outlandish to insinuate all anyone has ever really needed was slip joints, or that blade locks were popularized as a marketing trick. I want to be a traditionals guy. There's something special about a nice traditional folding knife. Also, my grandpa has always said his sak is the best knife in the world. So I took my Most Hardy seeming traditional to work (driving, carrying canoes, maintenance at a canoe livery), in the hopes I wouldn't have to use my modern folder and would be bitten by the traditional bug. However, I just couldn't reconcile using what is simply a less safe and Hardy design. I had to constantly be over alert for my safety. Not because I was cutting dangerously, but because without a lock if my hand or what I was cutting slipped I might lose some flesh and hours.

 

[ursamajor]

Honestly though, this horse has been beaten to death. To me it tells nothing. I don't tend to cut with the spine anyway. That would be something though. I'd love to see a video with somebody trying to cut phonebook paper with the spine of a blade, claiming it failed and concluding that the blade is inferior.
That would probably give the same amount of information as this video...
If you want a blade that does not fail spinewhack tests, go get a fixed blade. It will do marvelous in these kind of tests, I can assure you.

Or a folding knife with a triad lock. For all the Cold Steel Hate, they have the best locking mech in the business hands down.

 

[Jaytaylor]

I have literally never used a knife in a way that puts pressure on the spine this way. I can't even think of a conceivable reason to do something like beat the spine of your knife on anything. As such, this test tells absolutely nothing about the value of a knife. If I can't push the knife closed with my hands the lock is PLENTY strong for literally every cutting task I can imagine.

This ^^^

In all my years of knife use I have never had a lock fail, that may be due to using my knives as knives and not as hammers.

Shall we try a hammer cutting paper test for the next thread?

 

[midnight flyer]

Or a folding knife with a triad lock. For all the Cold Steel Hate, they have the best locking mech in the business hands down.

Having used liner and frame locks for years in my construction job, I have never had but one fail. It was a gift knife, a Gerber that was so badly built I expected failure. The liner lock was so thin you could push the blade as if you were closing it and you could see the liner flex! One day, I opened the knife and flipped it open and the liner lock went all the way past the blade and sat in the space between the blade and the opposite liner. This was a great opportunity to throw it in the trash.

I just picked up a full sized CS American Lawman after a glowing review from a knife maker that is on this forum. I was never interested in CS, but boy am I glad I caught his review and knew who he was when I saw it. I can believe all they say about how strong the locking mechanism is on this knife. When it is locked, it feels more secure than any knife I own or have ever owned that has a locking mechanism of some sort. Absolutely no play or wobble of any kind at all when in place, and virtually no way to disengage it. In fact, I can't disengage the lock unless I use both hands. It will make a great work knife, no doubt, joining my stable of Kershaws.

Robert

 

[Livefreeordie92]

I feel like the spine wack test is the knife equivalent of testing the airbags in your car by driving into a brick wall. Both are pointless and cause unnecessary damage.

 

[Luis G.]

Ah hahahahaha! You know everything they say on the internet is true right? Where did you here that? Oh the internet...!

Because youtube is a plethora of awesome knowledge! I will say there are a couple knowledgeable people on there but its not where I go for my information.

The irony...