Kershaw vs. Zero tolerance

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TBL said:
I have a few and love them.

I have had nothing but positive experiences with their products. Everybody has a different opinion and miles may very. Take them all with a grain of salt and try em for yourself. If you don't like them, there are many here that will gladly buy them from you.

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^What he said!
 
shqxk said:
No matter how many test has been done... Fanboy gonna fanboy :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a55Q8g8d9Vc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EfipvnP2FM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY6Iz2gU15E&list=UU8dddN6ZyBW6sCsvfiDVsqw
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Honestly man, bad idea. Many have come. All have fallen. You could post a video of a ZT disintegrating as you pull it out of the box and somehow someway you would end up being the A-hole. I find its easier to just let people believe what they want to believe.


Blues Bender said:
So the amazing edge retention on my 0562cf is an illusion?
No matter how many videos you post... Fanboy ain't gonna watch em':rolleyes:
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No. The amazing edge retention on your 0562cf isnt an illusion. But its also a different knife with a different steel. Its kinda like saying that someone cant have a broken down camaro because they have working corvette.
 
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Blues Bender said:
So the amazing edge retention on my 0562cf is an illusion?
No matter how many videos you post... Fanboy ain't gonna watch em':rolleyes:
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My $13 420 steel chinese kitchen knife also has amazing edge retention, even better than ZT's Elmax, is that an illusion?

Fanboi gonna fanboi:barf:
 
Have you considered breaking in the knife? It's not too uncommon for ZT's Elmax to have a bad sharpening job that ruins a little bit of the edge's heat treat, once you sharpen past that it gets better.
 
Wanimator said:
Have you considered breaking in the knife? It's not too uncommon for ZT's Elmax to have a bad sharpening job that ruins a little bit of the edge's heat treat, once you sharpen past that it gets better.
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This sometimes is or isnt the case. It depends on how much heat was created during the initial sharpening process. And usually a significant amount of the edge material needs to be removed to get to good steel. This also hurts cutting performance as the further back you go the thicker the edge will be. Either way no matter if this is true or not I think the question begs to be asked. When spending $260 for a knife with premium steel should you have to grind away the factory edge and diminish the longevity of that blade in order to have a product that should have performed out of the box? If that is the case they should sell them without an edge on them at all.
 
Not to be a grump, but when Kershaw started making all the chinese knives, they took their high-quality USA made Kershaw line (think g10 Tyrade), colored them black, and added $100-150 to the cost.
 
Kershaw used to be the KAI brand known for mostly US made (Japanese parent company so Japanese knives as well) high quality knives for reasonable prices. ZT was the company that started off slow and gained so much of a following that IMO, has been given the bulk of KAI's attention regarding development and branding. Kershaw was dumbed down with mostly offshore offerings and is not what it used to be. Just my opinion on watching things over the last 15 years or so.
 
BoazmanPaul said:
Why? Interested to know why.
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The guy's entitled to his opinion. The OP asked for it. Nobody said the member who just said they were "bad ass" needs to justify his opinion.

Every time opinions about KAI are asked for it goes the same way. Somebody says they don't like them and peoples' heads explode.

Not at all fan of either line, BTW. More of a dislike of KAI in general.
 
shqxk said:
My $13 420 steel chinese kitchen knife also has amazing edge retention, even better than ZT's Elmax, is that an illusion?

Fanboi gonna fanboi:barf:
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Yes, it is an illusion. And whatever produces hallucinations that vivid, you'd better tell me now...
 
crom said:
Kershaw used to be the KAI brand known for mostly US made (Japanese parent company so Japanese knives as well) high quality knives for reasonable prices. ZT was the company that started off slow and gained so much of a following that IMO, has been given the bulk of KAI's attention regarding development and branding. Kershaw was dumbed down with mostly offshore offerings and is not what it used to be. Just my opinion on watching things over the last 15 years or so.
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I kinda agree with the last past in a way. Tool truck gave me his old 2014 kershaw catalog. Its really starting to see other than a handful of knives, almost all kershaws are made overseas and ZT is becoming the high end USA made line.
 
I srill have a handful of US made kershaw knives, ZTs don't float my boat, too heavy and expensive.
 
scotchleaf said:
Not to be a grump, but when Kershaw started making all the chinese knives, they took their high-quality USA made Kershaw line (think g10 Tyrade), colored them black, and added $100-150 to the cost.
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I think you make a valid point. But to be fair its not just Kai that is guilty of dumbing it down. The minimalist approach IMHO is getting out of hand with numerous makers. Stonewash and acid washing looks cool but people forget that these finished were popularized by amature pimpers and makers who wanted to have a unique looking knife yet had not developed the skills yet to do a mirror or satin blade without imperfections. A stonewashed blade hides unintentional scratches. And the rustic look can all to easily be a crutch for the makers who lack the skill set to produce anything above that. These finishes became popular and it seems like all the companies have followed suit. Its easier and cheaper. It does however sadden me that Kai abandoned things like the tyrade and those really nice titanium bumps with the anodized handles. But these days things like that are considered custom. And you just dont see anyone offering these features any more as you cant program a machine to do it.
 
Blues Bender said:
Yes, it is an illusion. And whatever produces hallucinations that vivid, you'd better tell me now...
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Listen, you like ZT. There is no problem with that. But lets just put it this way. I can sit in my house all day and avoid watching the news and reading the newspaper and I can tell myself that everything outside the four walls of my home is nothing but sunshine and rainbows and everything is well in the world. And if people tell me the opposite I can call them crazy and refuse to believe but it wont change the fact that the ONLY truth of it all is that I would be in denial. Watch the videos, dont watch them it really doesnt matter. Because the issue is real despite any amount of denial you cling to.
 
I really want to try an 0350, but I really don't want another boring black handle. They kind of all blend together in my eyes - design/color scheme-wise. Lol, probably a lame excuse.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Listen, you like ZT. There is no problem with that. But lets just put it this way. I can sit in my house all day and avoid watching the news and reading the newspaper and I can tell myself that everything outside the four walls of my home is nothing but sunshine and rainbows and everything is well in the world. And if people tell me the opposite I can call them crazy and refuse to believe but it wont change the fact that the ONLY truth of it all is that I would be in denial. Watch the videos, dont watch them it really doesnt matter. Because the issue is real despite any amount of denial you cling to.
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That's not my issue. The issue is judging an entire company based on 1 models edge retention.
By that logic, I could call a certain knife company garbage due to 1 employee giving me bad CS in their warranty department.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Listen, you like ZT. There is no problem with that. But lets just put it this way. I can sit in my house all day and avoid watching the news and reading the newspaper and I can tell myself that everything outside the four walls of my home is nothing but sunshine and rainbows and everything is well in the world. And if people tell me the opposite I can call them crazy and refuse to believe but it wont change the fact that the ONLY truth of it all is that I would be in denial. Watch the videos, dont watch them it really doesnt matter. Because the issue is real despite any amount of denial you cling to.
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You're right, all Kershaw knives are crap. All of them. Ever. Oh, ZT knives are crap too. All of them. Because a couple of whiners on the internet say so.

If people do not like a company because the designs do not appeal to them, that is fine. That, however, does not speak to the quality of the product. I may not care for any Lexus models, but for me to go on a car forum and tell everyone that they are all junk would just make me a troll.

Did some of the early ZT Elmax blades have issues? Yes. Were those issues addressed? Yes. All companies have QC issues from time to time, which is to be expected. Addressing the issues and taking care of the customer is what makes a great company.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Listen, you like ZT. There is no problem with that. But lets just put it this way. I can sit in my house all day and avoid watching the news and reading the newspaper and I can tell myself that everything outside the four walls of my home is nothing but sunshine and rainbows and everything is well in the world. And if people tell me the opposite I can call them crazy and refuse to believe but it wont change the fact that the ONLY truth of it all is that I would be in denial. Watch the videos, dont watch them it really doesnt matter. Because the issue is real despite any amount of denial you cling to.
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These threads get so annoying. Ive seen people go off the deep end in the Spyderco, Emerson, and Buck subforums because someone showed up and insulted the brand. But because there is no KAI subforum (KAIs doing, I know) then the brand is fair game in General. There is a big difference between, "I had a 0560 that had bad edge retention, I'm not impressed with ZT's elmax" or "Ive seen a handful of reviews online that state the Elmax has bad edge retention, but I have no experience of that myself", and "ZT = crap; Kershaw = Uppercrap." Some of us, myself included, have worked hard to save up enough money to buy a ZT and have had really great experiences with them. It's a slap in the face to come here and just bash the entire line of knives because you saw some reviews online. Just look at any ZT thread, youll find more people (fanboys, and not) that have had great luck with ZT's elmax vs. bad. Probably by about 10:1. You have made your point and opinion known with tact, the other guy didn't. Also claiming a knife with chinese 420 steel has better edge retention than an Elmax blade from ZT is a complete lie and anyone with any kind of knife knowledge would call BS on that one. Again, just a tactless way to state an opinion.

For my part, I have a 566 and 0770CF and have had great luck with Elmax. The other steels I have experience with are 8CR13MoV, 14C28N, and S35VN, so my experience is limited. But 14C28N regularly gets great reviews around here and Elmax has been far superior to that IMO. As it should. In my experiences it sharpens up easier than s35vn, and holds an edge longer. But I guess because I'm a fan and I don't make videos, my opinion doesnt matter. When I worked in the car business we had a saying, "A happy customer will tell one person, an unhappy customer will tell 10 people."
 
I had a Kershaw Boa made back in like 2000/2001. That knife was made very well, what you'd think of a ZT now. Good steel (S60V), good lock, good ergos, and good grinds. That knife cost something like 120 bucks more or less. There's no reason the ZT branded knives should be costing double that now. Maybe 150-200 now, which is reasonable for what they are combined with inflation, but their tactic of producing these limited edition knives that SHOULD cost 200-300 for upwards of 500 is what made me turn away.

For what it's worth, I've had good experience with ZT's elmax as far as steels go, but nothing else, really, especially their limited editions, of which I've owned three of one model and one of another. I've also owned two models of their production line, one of which hit all passing scores. They were each very pretty and on paper everything was supposed to be top notch, but once in hand, only one or two features were actually useful and the rest of the knife made it uncarryable because of size or manufacturer defects or simply poorly designed blade geometry. I can see possibly buying another production model, but I've sworn off their limited edition offerings unless they drastically change their business model.

If you ask me about Kershaw before ZT was around, I would say I've only had good experiences, dating back to 2001.
 
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