Kershaw vs. Zero tolerance

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SunOfAtom said:
If people do not like a company because the designs do not appeal to them, that is fine. That, however, does not speak to the quality of the product. I may not care for any Lexus models, but for me to go on a car forum and tell everyone that they are all junk would just make me a troll..
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It would make you a troll if nobody asked for you opinion, of if it were a forum for Lexus fans. Neither are the case here. Opinions were asked for and this isn't KAI forum.

Its not trolling (or whining), in my opinion. Its merely an opinion you find unsupported.
 
I've got a couple of Zt's in elmax and haven't had any problems with it at all, holds a very good edge and is reasonably easy to sharpen. I cut hay bales open with them all the time and that has been my experience to dull pretty much anything fast. I can get 2 more bales cut with elmax than I can with s35v. So in use its been a good steel for me. For reference the bales are 5ft 1000b round bales with net wrap.
 
marcinek said:
It would make you a troll if nobody asked for you opinion, of if it were a forum for Lexus fans. Neither are the case here. Opinions were asked for and this isn't KAI forum.

Its not trolling (or whining), in my opinion. Its merely an opinion you find unsupported.
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Do you think it would be reasonable to go onto a car enthusiast forum and say "Lexus and Toyota are both crap. I saw a video on YouTube of a guy who had thrown a rod in a brand new IS350."

Like I've said, there are different ways to state your opinion. I couldn't care less if ZT isn't everyone's cup of tea. Their business model bugs some people. Oh well. So does Benchmades business model. So does Cold Steels business model. I like the knives, you don't. Who cares? But I don't think anyone who asks for opinions on a certain brand just wants to be told its "crap." With no support. I also think people with positive experience should say more than "they're great, buy one!".
 
celtic11 said:
Like I've said, there are different ways to state your opinion. I couldn't care less if ZT isn't everyone's cup of tea. Their business model bugs some people. Oh well. So does Benchmades business model. So does Cold Steels business model. I like the knives, you don't. Who cares? But I don't think anyone who asks for opinions on a certain brand just wants to be told its "crap." With no support. I also think people with positive experience should say more than "they're great, buy one!".
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The same is true in reverse. If people have had bad experiences, then their opinions are just as valid. If there are just as many people saying bad things as good, that should sound warning bells for the potential buyer. Why is a person with bad experience any less qualified to offer an opinion than someone with good?

Would it be alright to go onto a car forum and say "Lexus and Toyota are great because I saw a video where they were both really fast!"?

All that aside, people with a negative opinion of ZT, regardless of their experience or story, are very much vilified on this forum, even when there's absolute truth in their complaint. People get infractions and warnings for saying anything truly bad about ZT, even if their complaint is backed up with emails, pictures, and a solid knowledge base in knives.
 
bodog said:
The same is true in reverse. If people have had bad experiences, then their opinions are just as valid. If there are just as many people saying bad things as good, that should sound warning bells for the potential buyer. Why is a person with bad experience any less qualified to offer an opinion than someone with good?

Would it be alright to go onto a car forum and say "Lexus and Toyota are great because I saw a video where they were both really fast!"?
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I said the same thing in my last sentence.

"ZT knives are amazing!" Is pretty much a worthless response.

"I own three ZTs. The 550 is a little big for pocket carry IMO but the fit and finish is excellent on all three. Blades are perfectly centered with tight lockup and no blade play." Would be a much better response.
 
celtic11 said:
Did you even read the last half of my post?
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Yes. All opinions are valid, it's up to the buyer to discern whether those opinions are based in fact instead of subjective criteria based on ignorance, whether that opinion is good or bad of a given product.
 
bodog said:
Yes. All opinions are valid, it's up to the buyer to discern whether those opinions are based in fact instead of subjective criteria based on ignorance, whether that opinion is good or bad of a given product.
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The people who are "villified" are the people who have no experience with elmax but site it as "crap." Because they saw an internet video. Look at the link I posted. Its the first thread that pops up if you search for "ZT elmax" on BF. The positive experiences outweigh the negative by about 10/1.

Its people who claim that Cold Steels AUS8 and Chinese 420 will outperform Elmax that get everyone all stirred up. Those are BS statements and everyone knows it. I'm not a steel snob, I have plenty of aus8 and 8cr13mov blades. I love those steels for what they are and Cold Steel does an excellent job with aus8. But I have used an AK47, and a Recon1 extensively and they don't come close to outperforming my 770CF or 566 in ant category.
 
I've had 3 ZT's and one Kershaw, all of them were a ton of knife for the money.

The ZT's I had cost a lot more than my Kershaw but they also had superior materials,I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of them again.
Although I have really only carried CRK's for years the only production knife that I want right now is a ZT 801 black wash.

If your just looking for a who's better that'd be a hard comparison unless you can provide specific models with equal materials to choose from but if your just wondering if they're good brands you'll have no trouble finding legions of faithful fans here at the forum for both brands due to their high quality.
 
There are many US-made Kershaws as well. I recently got an outstanding Camber made in the US with S30V blade and aluminum handles with traction inserts for $77!
 
I have multiple ZT models, but my favorite is the 0561!! I have had it for two years now and she still is perfect. [We don';t do free advertising]!
 
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I like reading all the opinions, I don't like reading the smug "know-it-all" opinions. I'm very new in the knife game (at least the serious knife game) and I want all the experiences, good and bad. It's then up to me to decide what I want and like and if I'm the only one that agrees with my decision I'm perfectly fine with that.

That being said, I find it disheartening that a $200 dollar knife is having issues that I don't think $200 dollar knives should have. I doubt seriously that the entire line of ZT's and Kershaws are "crap" as I've read TONS of reviews and handled many nice Kershaws, the Blur and Rake being two of my favorites. Just get what you like and be happy and be happy that others are happy.
 
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I have had and still have many ZT and Kershaw models and have been pleased with my purchases for the most part over the years.The USA Kershaw models are a great entry level knife and I recommend them to my friends who are casual knife users.Good knives and great overall value in my eyes.ZT knives are not the best slicers from my experiences.They have pretty thick blade stock and the blade geometry could be improved to make them more efficient cutters.The 0770CF seems to be the most efficient slicer that I have used to date.ZT does produce some very good and in my opinion relatively heavy models.The LE versions tend to showcase their production abilities and I consider them mid-techs.The ZT line carries a premium price tag,but overall quality tend to meet and sometimes exceed other domestic production knife producers.I consider ZT Kai's flagship brand for USA produced production folders.My overall opinion is positive for both the Kershaw(USA) and the ZT brands.Some of the more desirable features(KVT) of the ZT models have started to trickle down into the Kershaw line.I tend to think that the baton was passed to ZT some where between the release of the Kershaw Tilt and the ZT 0560.ZT and Kershaw share the same Kai DNA .That is my opinion and observations.
Best,
salmonkiller
 
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I would buy any US made Kershaw and ZT. I have put my ZT's through the paces and all have held up well. Edge retention on my 0560 is fine. As it is on the 0350, 0200 and 0801. 0550 too. The USA made Kershaws have performed flawlessly. Lots of fanboys here, and lots of haters too. Before you take what one side says over the others, I suggest picking up a use from the exchange and make your own decision then. Kai has great CS and stands behind its product, so if something does go wrong, there will be no worries down the road.
 
Blues Bender said:
That's not my issue. The issue is judging an entire company based on 1 models edge retention.
By that logic, I could call a certain knife company garbage due to 1 employee giving me bad CS in their warranty department.
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Well he may have only given one reason but that doesnt mean that is his ONLY reason for not liking them. It may go deeper than that. It didnt seem like that was your issue. It seemed as if you were combating his claim about the issues with elmax. And it didnt seem you were interested in hearing or seeing any evidence that would support the claims. So if you dont want to listen to reason on a single issue what would be the point in him listing any more than that? Just saying man I think its all fine and well that you like Kai knives. Many do and there is nothing wrong with that. But I think people with legitimate issues have the right to express their opinion without being told they are delusional.


SunOfAtom said:
You're right, all Kershaw knives are crap. All of them. Ever. Oh, ZT knives are crap too. All of them. Because a couple of whiners on the internet say so.

If people do not like a company because the designs do not appeal to them, that is fine. That, however, does not speak to the quality of the product. I may not care for any Lexus models, but for me to go on a car forum and tell everyone that they are all junk would just make me a troll.

Did some of the early ZT Elmax blades have issues? Yes. Were those issues addressed? Yes. All companies have QC issues from time to time, which is to be expected. Addressing the issues and taking care of the customer is what makes a great company.
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I never said they were all crap. I never even used the word crap nor do I think that they are. Its that kind of overreacting and inflation that gets that fanboy word thrown around. Im not calling you one but when people get so defensive that they embellish what others say its a bit much. I only said that I have had issues with many of the knives I owned and that people who dislike aspects of them have just as much right as anyone else to speak up and voice their opinion. And while you yourself can admit that they had an issue early on with elmax Kai will not. To this day the last words spoke by the company on the topic was that they have not processed any warranty claims for issues with elmax and that they didnt believe there was a problem. And that is how it always is with them. Up until recently, ANY time someone made a statement with even a shadow of negitive overtone and a certain someone who will remain nameless would pop in, get defensive and be very abrasive and combative not to mention condescending with anyone who made any critical comments about their products or how they do business. Im sorry I dont subscribe to the policy that you are only allowed to say "Good" things about a company in order to be called a fan.


RevDevil said:
THis is starting to read like a "What's better Chevrolet or GMC pickup?"
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The answer is obvious. Toyota

celtic11 said:
I saw a guy on YouTube who spun a bearing in his corvette. My Honda civic with bolt-ons is better than a corvette!
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OR it could go like this. " I own a corvette a camaro as well as a cobalt and I never had any problems and I love them. So that means EVERY car they make is top quality and the issues reported by other people are unwarranted and they are just whiners without cause. They shouldnt talk about those problems because my cars are great."

There are two sides always. But in most cases there is only one group that is consistently told to keep their mouth shut.
 
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