Killa Zilla III - Who wants it?

K

kookery

Joined
Oct 11, 2012
Messages
337
This is what we have:

Killa Zilla I A.K.A "Test Team" - With the best handle.
Killa Zilla II - With the best blade profile and shape.

This is what we want:

Killa Zilla III - With the handle of #1 and the blade of #2.

Who wants it? Will Busse make it? If they make it, will you buy it? I know I want one.
 
I'd also be happy with a light brigade version of the TTKZ, or multiple sizes of that basic setup.... Blade shape can change as long as the handle stays the same :)
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I'd also be happy with a light brigade version of the TTKZ, or multiple sizes of that basic setup.... Blade shape can change as long as the handle stays the same :)
Click to expand...

What's a "light brigade version"? I agree about multiple sizes! I was thinking that, but I forgot to put it in my original post. I would probably buy 2 of the KZTT if I had the choice out of 4 different sizes (with the original KZTT being the largest). The blade needs to be thinned on the KZTT design, according to all the reports, but that's easy to do.

American-Steel said:
I would gladly buy 2
Click to expand...

KZII is on xxxxxx right now: Link removed.
 
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You might wanna delete that last line Kookery, that's considered dealspotting. Anyways, I want a BASIC KILLA ZILLA!
 
What is deal spotting? Sorry, I'm still new around here. What do you mean by "basic killa zilla"?
 
Just looking at the KZII handle, I think it should be possible to put KZTT-shaped scales on it. They would just extend out a bit further in the finger direction, and the bump on the back would need to be ground off. But, I think it might be possible to get the best of both worlds on the KZII. I don't know exactly how to do that, though. If the scales were mounted with screws, they could be swapped. I prefer the looks of the KZTT blade, though. I'm not sure if the KZII blade is an improvement, or just different somehow. Anyone know what practical things change between the 2 blade designs?
 
tradistional handle shape is better if you use it for a long time , you should know it .:D
 
The basic series has Resperine C which is a kind of rubber handle. That's what I want in an infi kukri!

Oh, and deal spotting is posting a live auction, or a website that isn't a bladeforums supporting community member.
 
kookery said:
What's a "light brigade version"? I agree about multiple sizes! I was thinking that, but I forgot to put it in my original post. I would probably buy 2 of the KZTT if I had the choice out of 4 different sizes (with the original KZTT being the largest). The blade needs to be thinned on the KZTT design, according to all the reports, but that's easy to do.



deal spotting[/qoute]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...he-quot-Light-Brigade-quot-Series-(Cool-Pics)

Light Brigade is a two part treatment, you remove the handle leaving a 'webbing' of metal that's thinner than the stock thickness, like an I-beam. It has three effects, it lightens the handle, it reduces vibration compared to a complete skeletonization, and it creates a structure that is stronger and stiffer for it's weight than a flat peice of bar stock. The same is true of an I-Beam. If an I beam weighs 1 ton, it will be stronger and stiffer than a piece of flat stock of the same width utiliing the same amount of metal.... I think...
GeminiLightBrigade.jpg

LightBrigadeHandlecutaway.jpg


The second part of the treatment is to the blade grind. Normally it's like the thicker version, the thinner version is the light brigade version. The hollow grind is thinner and lighter than the convex version creating a much better cutting geometry for slicing and chopping as long as it's not on overly bindy material like wood splitting or hard plastics.
COLBBladecutaway3.jpg


In the case of a LB TTKZ I'd hope that the light brigade treatment would only be applied to the handle. By lightening the blade you'd end up neutralizing the benefits of lightening the handle. By having a blade heavy balance you can use a smaller blade for the same work of a heavier neutral balanced blade. Or you can have a more effective chopper in the same amount of space at a few ounces of weight savings.

If the LB treatment was applied to the TTKZ or KZII blade I'd hope that it would be in the form of a traditional wide fuller. You lighten the weight but don't increase binding like you do with hollow grinds.
Click to expand...
 
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kookery said:
Just looking at the KZII handle, I think it should be possible to put KZTT-shaped scales on it. They would just extend out a bit further in the finger direction, and the bump on the back would need to be ground off. But, I think it might be possible to get the best of both worlds on the KZII. I don't know exactly how to do that, though. If the scales were mounted with screws, they could be swapped. I prefer the looks of the KZTT blade, though. I'm not sure if the KZII blade is an improvement, or just different somehow. Anyone know what practical things change between the 2 blade designs?
Click to expand...

You couldn't swap them:
zP1020825.jpg


The TTKZ has a curved handle that would result in empty space between the scales on the pinky side, and a big blank peice of metal on the palm side of the pommel. The KZII also has a very pronounced palm swell in the center - you'd end up with open metal because the TTKZ scales wouldn't cover it completely.

The KZII handle suffered from several drawbacks (in my experience). The palm swell is too severe, creating a 'tennis ball' in hand effect, not something you want when the tennis ball is like a rock and your hitting things with it. The handle is also too long creating a situation where you have three grips, an incomfortable forward grip that isn't secure (hand wants to slip back), a center position with an incomfortable palm swell where your hand wants to slip backwards, and a rear grip where the pommels palm side up-swoop bites into your carpal-lunates and wrist.

zP1020829.jpg


There is much more consistency in thickness for the index, middle and pinky finger positions of the TTKZ handle, and it's got a much tighter design that allows you hand to get a single locked in grip that's large enough for large hands but small enough that it's comfortable for medium sized hands like mine. The TTKZ is a better handle design, the best busse has produced to date for a large chopper (again, in my experience). It is, however, completely unique from any other handle design made by Busse, so no other set of scales could be used on them without fabricating them from scratch.
 
You can't swap the original scales, but you can hide the tang instead of leaving a gap with newer. That's the routine thing to do. The extra steel can be ground away, and that volume would be replaced when you put different scales on it. So, yes, you can make swappable scales with a well-thought design. Then, you can have whatever handle shape you want. You could even change it for different tasks. That kind of thing is pretty low on the engineering totem pole, so I'm sure it would be almost trivial to do.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
kookery said:
What's a "light brigade version"? I agree about multiple sizes! I was thinking that, but I forgot to put it in my original post. I would probably buy 2 of the KZTT if I had the choice out of 4 different sizes (with the original KZTT being the largest). The blade needs to be thinned on the KZTT design, according to all the reports, but that's easy to do.



deal spotting[/qoute]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...he-quot-Light-Brigade-quot-Series-(Cool-Pics)

Light Brigade is a two part treatment, you remove the handle leaving a 'webbing' of metal that's thinner than the stock thickness, like an I-beam. It has three effects, it lightens the handle, it reduces vibration compared to a complete skeletonization, and it creates a structure that is stronger and stiffer for it's weight than a flat peice of bar stock. The same is true of an I-Beam. If an I beam weighs 1 ton, it will be stronger and stiffer than a piece of flat stock of the same width utiliing the same amount of metal.... I think...
GeminiLightBrigade.jpg

LightBrigadeHandlecutaway.jpg


The second part of the treatment is to the blade grind. Normally it's like the thicker version, the thinner version is the light brigade version. The hollow grind is thinner and lighter than the convex version creating a much better cutting geometry for slicing and chopping as long as it's not on overly bindy material like wood splitting or hard plastics.
COLBBladecutaway3.jpg


In the case of a LB TTKZ I'd hope that the light brigade treatment would only be applied to the handle. By lightening the blade you'd end up neutralizing the benefits of lightening the handle. By having a blade heavy balance you can use a smaller blade for the same work of a heavier neutral balanced blade. Or you can have a more effective chopper in the same amount of space at a few ounces of weight savings.

If the LB treatment was applied to the TTKZ or KZII blade I'd hope that it would be in the form of a traditional wide fuller. You lighten the weight but don't increase binding like you do with hollow grinds.
Click to expand...

Where does all this info come from? I couldn't find anything on the Busse website to explain why I should want to buy the particular models they were selling. Their custom site is really bad - mostly useless flash that makes it even harder to find the tiny speck of info that's actually there.

It looks like the milling job would work to preserve stiffness while lightening the handle. Is it much better than doing holes, though? I'm skeptical that the milling produces much better results than just putting holes in the tang.
Click to expand...
 
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kookery said:
You can't swap the original scales, but you can hide the tang instead of leaving a gap with newer. That's the routine thing to do. The extra steel can be ground away, and that volume would be replaced when you put different scales on it. So, yes, you can make swappable scales with a well-thought design. Then, you can have whatever handle shape you want. You could even change it for different tasks. That kind of thing is pretty low on the engineering totem pole, so I'm sure it would be almost trivial to do.
Click to expand...

Busse has never made 'swappable' scales as you describe them, and I kind of doubt that they will in the future. They will make multiple models with different types of scales, but their standard set up is tube fasteners instead of bolts. As a company that tries to minimize 'damages' to their knives and resultant needs for warranty work, scales that are swappable create a difficult situation. They require tight machine tolerances that can't be corrected for in the shop during manufacture, if theres even a .005" overhang on the scale you'll feel it. In order to really keep tolerances in line for swappable scales you also need to supply custom hardware thats also to tight tolerances. It can't be interference tolerances (that would really guarantee a tight accurate fit) but they have to be tight enough to reduce the possibility of slop in the bolt to center of hole position and thus the edge of the scales. That means you know have the possibility of customers complaining of slight overhangs in the scales, the need to stock and distribute custom fixing hardware, and deal with customers who are not mechanically inclined enough to insert and remove tight fitting fasteners (a necessity for tight tolerances). You'd also likely run into those who want the tube fastener holes for those once in a trillion times when you have to make a spear out of your knife.

In the end it's just not built into their business model at the moment.

I got the info from the link I posted in the initial explanation to of what "Light Brigade" means:
www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthre...he-quot-Light-Brigade-quot-Series-(Cool-Pics)
Most of the information about Busse knives is found in the initial release post by Jerry here on the forums. In order to find it you kind of have to memorize the search terms for that particular knife, or you can book mark all of them which is tedius and difficult. as an example, you can type in {"Light Brigade" treatment team gemini} into google to find the thread I posted a link to in this response, it's the first link on googles search page when using those search terms.
 
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kookery said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuller_(weapon)

The Light Brigade has one. A common misnomer is "blood groove".
Click to expand...

"Light Brigade" isn't actually a model name, it's a designation that indicates a set of features. It's like how there isn't a "nuclear meltdown" model. there's a "Nuclear Meltdown" Battle mistress, but there's also an Ergo Battle mistress. NM and E modifiers define that one has a "ball bearing edge treatment" and an elongated blade where the other has the "Ergo" type handles and spear point tip that's somewhat unique to the Ergo line.

The LBTG (light brigade team gemini) in the pictures I posted has a fuller, as does one of the Proto BOSS Jack variations. However I'd prefer the more traditional khukuri fuller that takes up a larger amount of space.
 
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