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Kizer Splinter or zt 450CF? opinions
- Thread starter nine4t4
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The 450 has become the standard when it comes to smaller ZT folders. Many small ZT folders are too thick and overbuilt for most people wanting to carry a smaller knife. There is also the 460 which is similar but more radically curved.
I have no experience with the kizer but I have heard good things about them. It seems some models are known to have problems and the Splinter is not one of them. (It is good to go)
I would watch youtube reviews of both to help me decide.
I have no experience with the kizer but I have heard good things about them. It seems some models are known to have problems and the Splinter is not one of them. (It is good to go)
I would watch youtube reviews of both to help me decide.
I've used a Griptilian for years (154cm), but when I cut cardboard it's the heavy duty stuff 154 or Vg10 are fine but better edge retention would be better, hence S35 or similar steel.
I'd carry an Izula or similar fixed, but even that looks to Rambo/mall ninja for work. So I need a durable, convenient 'gentleman folder'. After years of Benchmade, I think I'll try a flipper, (the BM 300 is also 154, same as grip.
Other knives along the idea of ZT 450 design and price would also be considered.
I'd carry an Izula or similar fixed, but even that looks to Rambo/mall ninja for work. So I need a durable, convenient 'gentleman folder'. After years of Benchmade, I think I'll try a flipper, (the BM 300 is also 154, same as grip.
Other knives along the idea of ZT 450 design and price would also be considered.
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I have the ZT0450 as well as a Kizer T1
First impressions on the T1 were very favorable , mostly due to the Ergonomics.
The Blade material & titanium scales are good quality and most impressive was the action.
After a few days the blade went off center tightening the pivot screw helped but not perfect
I went full "Shabazz" on it , took it apart cleaned / lubed .
In the process I realized the Achilles heel On this
the hardware ,all screws are way too soft and poorly milled heads
The bearings didn't exude quality but seem to work fine . Overall it was a good value
But that said I think the ZT is heads above in all ways What's the street price on the ZT maybe $180 - 200. The Kizer "on sale" is $120 something. I don't think that's much of a difference
I took my foray to the Orient , sticking with USA for now .
First impressions on the T1 were very favorable , mostly due to the Ergonomics.
The Blade material & titanium scales are good quality and most impressive was the action.
After a few days the blade went off center tightening the pivot screw helped but not perfect
I went full "Shabazz" on it , took it apart cleaned / lubed .
In the process I realized the Achilles heel On this
the hardware ,all screws are way too soft and poorly milled heads
The bearings didn't exude quality but seem to work fine . Overall it was a good value
But that said I think the ZT is heads above in all ways What's the street price on the ZT maybe $180 - 200. The Kizer "on sale" is $120 something. I don't think that's much of a difference
I took my foray to the Orient , sticking with USA for now .
FullMetalJackass
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Think about pride of ownership and resale value. You should find your answer.
Pride of ownership? That's a good argument against ZT, if it's about ego rather than function I'm too pragmatic for that BS. People are proud to own Ferrari's, but a hatchback, minivan or pickup is more useful.
As far as selling a knife, that's a poor argument as well. I don't sell mine. I'll give a knife to a friend if it suits their needs. Buying a knife with plans to sell it means one of two things
1) you can forsee a high demand AND a drop in supply. How often do mfgs discontinue their high demand product. If that were my case I'd be asking about discontinued knives, midtech or customs.
2)One needs to liquidate assets for unforeseen circumstances (or just don't manage money well). ZT would depreciate less, but we're talking about less than 300 bucks. And it'll be used quite heavily until it gets usurped by something else.
I know ZTs have their fanboys, but your response offers little of use. A smallish, gentleman flipper with S35 steel. Honestly, the guy that suggests some esoteric off-the-wall knife will be more useful.
Not trying to be a dick, but you have input or you don't. Speaking cryptically, with no valid suggestion, is useless. Hopefully, posting benefitted you in some way, so it wasn't completely pointless.
As far as selling a knife, that's a poor argument as well. I don't sell mine. I'll give a knife to a friend if it suits their needs. Buying a knife with plans to sell it means one of two things
1) you can forsee a high demand AND a drop in supply. How often do mfgs discontinue their high demand product. If that were my case I'd be asking about discontinued knives, midtech or customs.
2)One needs to liquidate assets for unforeseen circumstances (or just don't manage money well). ZT would depreciate less, but we're talking about less than 300 bucks. And it'll be used quite heavily until it gets usurped by something else.
I know ZTs have their fanboys, but your response offers little of use. A smallish, gentleman flipper with S35 steel. Honestly, the guy that suggests some esoteric off-the-wall knife will be more useful.
Not trying to be a dick, but you have input or you don't. Speaking cryptically, with no valid suggestion, is useless. Hopefully, posting benefitted you in some way, so it wasn't completely pointless.
FullMetalJackass
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yeah you take things at a higher level than intended 
Just think about the one you like the most and how much money you'll eventually lose when you'll get tired of it. If it can help.
I buy sometimes higher priced used knives on exchange for the price of good new ones. They already have dents and scratches, I have less remorse to use them. And if I ever sell them, they will still retain a bit more of value. And I have the pleasure of using a great knife in the meantime.
I'd be torn apart if I had to chose between a new Reate Hills, a new WE Thraex, a new Kiser 3404A3 or a used ZT/BM/nicer Spydie (like a Southard).
Keep trying
Just think about the one you like the most and how much money you'll eventually lose when you'll get tired of it. If it can help.
I buy sometimes higher priced used knives on exchange for the price of good new ones. They already have dents and scratches, I have less remorse to use them. And if I ever sell them, they will still retain a bit more of value. And I have the pleasure of using a great knife in the meantime.
I'd be torn apart if I had to chose between a new Reate Hills, a new WE Thraex, a new Kiser 3404A3 or a used ZT/BM/nicer Spydie (like a Southard).
Keep trying
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ZT over Kizer, all day every day.
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I used to have a lot of ZT knives, I've wound up with 0 ZT knives and 5 kizers.
Id vote for the kizer
Id vote for the kizer
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I think between the 0450CF and the Kizer Splinter you're a little apples to oranges. The ZT sells at a fairly consistently enforced $180 while I've seen Splinters go new for less than $80. Both BladeHQ and Knife Center are wrapping up large sales on Kizer. You don't typically see ZT on sale until discontinued. You could buy two Splinters and a 12 pack before you dented the ZT!
So when I say the ZT is the better knife, that's kind of a no-brainer. I own several ZTs and Kizers and "most" of the time I'd give the ZT the nod for quality. Kizer makes some great knives though.
Someone mentioned soft hardware on a Kizer and that's been a valid rap on them for some time, that and variable detent strength. But don't forget that ZT themselves had a run of embarrassing pocket clip failures on the 0450. I'm not sure if that issue ever got resolved. When the 0450 first came out there was a lot of love/hate. Some struggled with opening the knife due to difficulty keeping pressure off the lockbar. KAI is great with warranty and service but Kizer has come a long way with theirs too. I'd say Kizer is tops for service among import brands. Between the two only Kizer is active on this forum.
See what I mean; not so black and white.
So, when the obvious answer seems to be ZT, remember that your mileage may vary. Your hand is your hand and only you can decide. If you can find a place to try both, that would be gravy. In a nutshell, the 0450 is one of the best slender gentleman's folders in the <$200 range that seems to profoundly not work for a few people whereas the Splinter is a great value option when found at the right price that might be a little rough around the edges.
Good luck!
So when I say the ZT is the better knife, that's kind of a no-brainer. I own several ZTs and Kizers and "most" of the time I'd give the ZT the nod for quality. Kizer makes some great knives though.
Someone mentioned soft hardware on a Kizer and that's been a valid rap on them for some time, that and variable detent strength. But don't forget that ZT themselves had a run of embarrassing pocket clip failures on the 0450. I'm not sure if that issue ever got resolved. When the 0450 first came out there was a lot of love/hate. Some struggled with opening the knife due to difficulty keeping pressure off the lockbar. KAI is great with warranty and service but Kizer has come a long way with theirs too. I'd say Kizer is tops for service among import brands. Between the two only Kizer is active on this forum.
See what I mean; not so black and white.
So, when the obvious answer seems to be ZT, remember that your mileage may vary. Your hand is your hand and only you can decide. If you can find a place to try both, that would be gravy. In a nutshell, the 0450 is one of the best slender gentleman's folders in the <$200 range that seems to profoundly not work for a few people whereas the Splinter is a great value option when found at the right price that might be a little rough around the edges.
Good luck!
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Both great knives. Kizer offers more titanium frame lock flippers at that price point. Could argue that the ZT will hold it's resale value better than the Kizer, as already mentioned above. IMO Kizer has collaborated more interesting designs lately for my taste than ZT. For a larger hard-use folders, ZT offers more great stuff at their price than most.
In terms of specific knives...
The 0450 can be difficult to flip depending on your hands and the grip. It's very easy to find your fingers holding down the frame lock bar. The handle on the the 0450 is short, made worse by the hooked end that forces your last fingers against it. So either your hand fits inside that space, or not. The back spacer screws thread into the other scale, not into the back spacers themselves and you can see the screw ends. ZT branding on the clip, which is not deep carry.
That said, the 0450 is a great cutter and very fast when opened correctly. The detent is strong. Fit and finish are good and it's a lot of blade in a small, thin package.
I've owned several Kizers but not the Splinter. Soft hardware and blade drift on the T1 was mentioned earlier in this thread, and I have not experienced either of those issues in my T1 after six months of daily use. I sold my 0450Ti with decked out MXG hardware for the T1 and have no regrets.
End of the day, Kizer offers more selection in the smallish EDC titanium flipper category at that price. That may give you a better chance to find the knife that's right for you.
A lot of people have owned the 0450 at some point, in one or more of it's variations. If you've not had one yet, owning one is a good decision. As stated above, you would have no issues selling it. And with that, the 0450 is a knife that you might consider buying on the secondary market.
In terms of specific knives...
The 0450 can be difficult to flip depending on your hands and the grip. It's very easy to find your fingers holding down the frame lock bar. The handle on the the 0450 is short, made worse by the hooked end that forces your last fingers against it. So either your hand fits inside that space, or not. The back spacer screws thread into the other scale, not into the back spacers themselves and you can see the screw ends. ZT branding on the clip, which is not deep carry.
That said, the 0450 is a great cutter and very fast when opened correctly. The detent is strong. Fit and finish are good and it's a lot of blade in a small, thin package.
I've owned several Kizers but not the Splinter. Soft hardware and blade drift on the T1 was mentioned earlier in this thread, and I have not experienced either of those issues in my T1 after six months of daily use. I sold my 0450Ti with decked out MXG hardware for the T1 and have no regrets.
End of the day, Kizer offers more selection in the smallish EDC titanium flipper category at that price. That may give you a better chance to find the knife that's right for you.
A lot of people have owned the 0450 at some point, in one or more of it's variations. If you've not had one yet, owning one is a good decision. As stated above, you would have no issues selling it. And with that, the 0450 is a knife that you might consider buying on the secondary market.
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Don't know anything about the Kizer but I do know my ZT 0450CF is probably my favorite folder I own, especially as a smaller office EDC.
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Have not seen splinter's for $ 80 ? most places are $123
* I have to give Kizer customer service credit - I contacted the retailer where i bought the T1 - explained about the screw heads being stripped from factory etc.
They would / could not order parts .. told me to contact Kizer -
I sent Kizer an email and got a reply in less than 12 hours ! .. they will send some screws - Cudos to them ! it will take 4 weeks ... but that's ok
on a side note , just received an Olamic 247 - Wow !! that's a quality product .
* I have to give Kizer customer service credit - I contacted the retailer where i bought the T1 - explained about the screw heads being stripped from factory etc.
They would / could not order parts .. told me to contact Kizer -
I sent Kizer an email and got a reply in less than 12 hours ! .. they will send some screws - Cudos to them ! it will take 4 weeks ... but that's ok
on a side note , just received an Olamic 247 - Wow !! that's a quality product .
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I actually think it was $89 that I saw them on sale for. That would have been during a Black Friday sale. They were just on sale at Knife Center for $98.
Kizer does a good job with responding. I've gotten hardware and clips from them. The wait time is rough because most of it ships from overseas, but they do seem to be responsive.
Enjoy that Olamic! They're a sweet knife!
Thanks guys (and ladies if there be). Great help, providing more than 'fanboy boy', "ZT because it's ZT".
Seen issues with both, hardware on kizer, and lockbar overtravel with ZT. It pains me to say it but ZT will be the one.
No issues with ZT, actually happy they are moving beyond 560ish knives. I just had a plan to save money with kizer and buy an unusual CKRT (cheap way to get cool designs if you can accept AUS8-ish blade steel).
Still looking for an S35 gents folder but if nothing pops out looks like ZT (safer bet)
Seen issues with both, hardware on kizer, and lockbar overtravel with ZT. It pains me to say it but ZT will be the one.
No issues with ZT, actually happy they are moving beyond 560ish knives. I just had a plan to save money with kizer and buy an unusual CKRT (cheap way to get cool designs if you can accept AUS8-ish blade steel).
Still looking for an S35 gents folder but if nothing pops out looks like ZT (safer bet)
dkb45
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Funny enough, I actually have a Splinter and 450CF, and between the two I changed give a decent list of pros and cons.
450CF: Better detent, lighter weight, DLC blade, lockbar insert, more clip options, customization options
Splinter: Much thinner grind, better blade shape (love the Wharncliffe), ceramic detent and bearings, better handle texturing, anodization options
Between the two, just because of the blade I'd go for the Splinter, neither knife is stout or large, and the Splinter just has an all around better blade for the size. The milled handles are just all around cooler too.
450CF: Better detent, lighter weight, DLC blade, lockbar insert, more clip options, customization options
Splinter: Much thinner grind, better blade shape (love the Wharncliffe), ceramic detent and bearings, better handle texturing, anodization options
Between the two, just because of the blade I'd go for the Splinter, neither knife is stout or large, and the Splinter just has an all around better blade for the size. The milled handles are just all around cooler too.
gazz98
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As for the Kizer Splinter prices (estimated), the Ti handles are $123, the G10 handles are $80. The ZT 450cf is $180.
I'm admittedly tight with the buck so I'm not sure the 450cf is worth the extra $100. I like G10 and micarta for handle material tbh. Carbon fiber can be "slick". The Splinter at $80 probably gets my vote.
I'm admittedly tight with the buck so I'm not sure the 450cf is worth the extra $100. I like G10 and micarta for handle material tbh. Carbon fiber can be "slick". The Splinter at $80 probably gets my vote.
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