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Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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- Thread starter 2knife
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A thought that occurs to me, Dave, might be to have a single thread that is a specific critique thread. A place for approvals, and, need be, improvements.
The maker's forum may sound like a better place, but I suspect the bonding and support framework in there makes it a difficult place to challenge work. Besides--who better to critique your knives than your customers. Your 'competition' can't be quite as honest, or relevant. They won't be buying them.
Maybe a sticky thread that would define the rules of engagement, so when someone wants to interject their opinion, they won't get out of line. There should be a protocol for allowance, either by the original poster's exact wording, or by placement in a particular thread. I disagree with STeven's assessment that posts made in this forum are ALL open to scrutiny. They are, but not necessarily with the written word. Yes, the sinking post is telling, isn't it...?
Just thinking out loud....
Coop
The maker's forum may sound like a better place, but I suspect the bonding and support framework in there makes it a difficult place to challenge work. Besides--who better to critique your knives than your customers. Your 'competition' can't be quite as honest, or relevant. They won't be buying them.
Maybe a sticky thread that would define the rules of engagement, so when someone wants to interject their opinion, they won't get out of line. There should be a protocol for allowance, either by the original poster's exact wording, or by placement in a particular thread. I disagree with STeven's assessment that posts made in this forum are ALL open to scrutiny. They are, but not necessarily with the written word. Yes, the sinking post is telling, isn't it...?
Just thinking out loud....
Coop
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
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1. We agreed that collectors posting new pics of their best knife would not be subject to the "open season" rule.
2. Coop, you give people far too much credit to see exactly what the "sinking post" tells. Ego gets in the way, and often screams much louder than crickets chirping.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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David, in general I don't think you need to worry about getting banned unless you obviously get out of hand, making personal attacks or spamming and such.
I think you're right that up and coming makers can receive more help or valuable advice from established makers but I can understand them wanting to show their work and get feedback from the people that actually do the buying.
As for sinking posts, they are telling, but probably not very helpful to the maker. As long as the response is not malicious and offers the maker a view that may improve his work then I see nothing wrong with being critical.
Edited to add that a public critique also helps the other collectors viewing the thread see things from another perspective and perhaps gain some insight into the finer points of the craft.
I think you're right that up and coming makers can receive more help or valuable advice from established makers but I can understand them wanting to show their work and get feedback from the people that actually do the buying.
As for sinking posts, they are telling, but probably not very helpful to the maker. As long as the response is not malicious and offers the maker a view that may improve his work then I see nothing wrong with being critical.
Edited to add that a public critique also helps the other collectors viewing the thread see things from another perspective and perhaps gain some insight into the finer points of the craft.
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AAAbsolutely. :thumbup:
I sure learn from this. And maybe not even use the word critique, but appraisal. Often I will look at a piece and try to determine what distinctions appeal to me and to articulate the points. When I do this, it give me better understanding of what I look for and, hopefully, others.
Coop
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even if you think a knife is the most horrid creation ever, you must not let this be known! just say how nice it is and how you wish it was in your collection, blah blah blah. never express your true feelings about a knife that has been posted unless it is a feeling total of awe and amazement for the knife.
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expert? lol
dont let someone talk you into liking a knife that you dont like. sure it might have the most amazing damascus that was forged on Jupiter out of space dust and shit and handle material sent down from God or grinds more hollow than some peoples heads. but if you dont like it thats it. you dont have to like it. and you should feel free to say what you dont like about it without fear. you dont have to be a knife jedi to know what looks good to you or not.
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My stomach hurts from laughing. 
WTF???!
I rest my case.
Coop
WTF???!I rest my case.
Coop
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You guys are too funny. 
David, he was banned for making a backhanded remark insulting the owner of these forums... 
David, he was banned for making a backhanded remark insulting the owner of these forums... 
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I think criticism should be handled with caution. Quite apart from hurting a makers feelings, you can do harm to their business..it is quite unjust to do someone financial harm just because their craft does not suit your style.
Also, it is hard to tell things from pics. I have seen some knives that look astounding in pics but were real pieces of garbage when handled in person (grinds off, balance off etc) and vice versa (knives that are wayyyyy better in real life than they look in the makers poor photographs)
I can't recall ever posting negative comments about a custom maker on an open forum but I will provide honest feedback in person or via PM...IF ASKED
Rl
Also, it is hard to tell things from pics. I have seen some knives that look astounding in pics but were real pieces of garbage when handled in person (grinds off, balance off etc) and vice versa (knives that are wayyyyy better in real life than they look in the makers poor photographs)
I can't recall ever posting negative comments about a custom maker on an open forum but I will provide honest feedback in person or via PM...IF ASKED
Rl
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Many years ago as a budding scientist with tender hide I was terrified of peer review. When I retired 8+ years ago I viewed "good" peer review as critical to good science. I emphasized good reviews because they are rarer than ivory bill woodpeckers. Most workers declined altogether. Some would skim the material and offer platitudes. Others were ideologues who didn't know the difference between ideology and science. Once in a blue moon a respected scientist would do a first rate job. Oh happy day. Brutal honesty was welcomed if it was civil. Add humility and a good review could become an inspiration or even a turning point in a career. While most of my papers are long forgotten, I still possess some of the cherished criticisms.
As a Christian I hold to the following scripture, "If you refuse criticism you will end in poverty and disgrace; if you accept criticism you are on the road to fame." Accepting criticism does not mean you must agree with all of it, for much of it is worthless or even destructive. But, if the maker cannot sift the nuggets from the rocks, he shouldn't be in the custom knife business.
To illustrate the virtue of honest review and how it might enhance a career, let me cite a incident related to the recent best bowie thread. I had rated a certain maker's bowie high but slightly less than my favorite, Jason Knight, because his blade had a tad less appeal to me. This popular maker emailed ME, a nobody on this forum who is not even a wannabe collector because I don't want to be a collector (just an old backpack hunter out west who appreciates fine tools), eager to discover what that little something was. He was not just open to criticism, he was stalking it. No one will be surprised to learn that it was the precocious virtuoso, Nick Wheeler.
I agree with Steven that if a maker posts his work he is inviting criticism whether it is articulated or the silence of the dead thread. Not that forumites need to critique every posting, but if one is moved to say something then he should be free to do so. Just remember that one reveals more about himself in the act of criticizing than in almost any other venue. So if one wishes the life of a pariah, then ignoring decorum and benevolence in your critiques is the correct path.
Frankly, in my few months here I've seen little abuse. Puerile bickering, si, but I don't recall any insincere, mean spirited maker reviews and there have been plenty of good ones. The recent attack against a genre of makers and their pretty art bowies did not impugn individuals. The antagonists had a point and I found myself partially agreeing with them (not blade failure, but compromised ergonomics in some cases), but I will not take the bait hidden in polemic rants by Philistines seeking a cheap rush of adrenalin and power gained from rattling cages.
Vicious attacks are not the only problem plaguing unsolicited reviews; unmerited praise is just as bereft of value. Again, I'm reminded of a scripture: "Flattery is a form of hatred, and wounds terribly." Les's story about a kind review backfiring and angering a maker underscores this. Honesty and good intentions are the hallmarks of constructive criticism.
The only thing worst than unworthy love or hate reviews is no review at all, for it provides some of the grist that keeps this forum vibrant for makers and buyers alike. So from my soapbox I say keep the reviews rolling. Breeches in etiquette for the most part are effectively self-policed via crushing feedback. For the sociopaths, there are moderators with swords.
Ken
As a Christian I hold to the following scripture, "If you refuse criticism you will end in poverty and disgrace; if you accept criticism you are on the road to fame." Accepting criticism does not mean you must agree with all of it, for much of it is worthless or even destructive. But, if the maker cannot sift the nuggets from the rocks, he shouldn't be in the custom knife business.
To illustrate the virtue of honest review and how it might enhance a career, let me cite a incident related to the recent best bowie thread. I had rated a certain maker's bowie high but slightly less than my favorite, Jason Knight, because his blade had a tad less appeal to me. This popular maker emailed ME, a nobody on this forum who is not even a wannabe collector because I don't want to be a collector (just an old backpack hunter out west who appreciates fine tools), eager to discover what that little something was. He was not just open to criticism, he was stalking it. No one will be surprised to learn that it was the precocious virtuoso, Nick Wheeler.
I agree with Steven that if a maker posts his work he is inviting criticism whether it is articulated or the silence of the dead thread. Not that forumites need to critique every posting, but if one is moved to say something then he should be free to do so. Just remember that one reveals more about himself in the act of criticizing than in almost any other venue. So if one wishes the life of a pariah, then ignoring decorum and benevolence in your critiques is the correct path.
Frankly, in my few months here I've seen little abuse. Puerile bickering, si, but I don't recall any insincere, mean spirited maker reviews and there have been plenty of good ones. The recent attack against a genre of makers and their pretty art bowies did not impugn individuals. The antagonists had a point and I found myself partially agreeing with them (not blade failure, but compromised ergonomics in some cases), but I will not take the bait hidden in polemic rants by Philistines seeking a cheap rush of adrenalin and power gained from rattling cages.
Vicious attacks are not the only problem plaguing unsolicited reviews; unmerited praise is just as bereft of value. Again, I'm reminded of a scripture: "Flattery is a form of hatred, and wounds terribly." Les's story about a kind review backfiring and angering a maker underscores this. Honesty and good intentions are the hallmarks of constructive criticism.
The only thing worst than unworthy love or hate reviews is no review at all, for it provides some of the grist that keeps this forum vibrant for makers and buyers alike. So from my soapbox I say keep the reviews rolling. Breeches in etiquette for the most part are effectively self-policed via crushing feedback. For the sociopaths, there are moderators with swords.
Ken
MVF
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Well, even though STeven has me wondering if I'm entitled to an opinion ...
I don't offer criticism unless it has been requested, and then I try to be specific, constructive, and state it as my opinion. For example "For me the guard seems a bit small", or "The square section of handle seems to break the flow of the knife to me".
If the poster has not requested criticism why would you want to post any? On the other hand, I don't compiment knives unless either some feature or the knife itself just really knocks me out.
The first seems like only good manners, the second, a combination of laziness and not seeing any point in cluttering a thread with insincere flattery or undeserved or faint praise that would be counterproductive (to the maker) anyway. -JMHO:yawn:
...I don't offer criticism unless it has been requested, and then I try to be specific, constructive, and state it as my opinion. For example "For me the guard seems a bit small", or "The square section of handle seems to break the flow of the knife to me".
If the poster has not requested criticism why would you want to post any? On the other hand, I don't compiment knives unless either some feature or the knife itself just really knocks me out.
The first seems like only good manners, the second, a combination of laziness and not seeing any point in cluttering a thread with insincere flattery or undeserved or faint praise that would be counterproductive (to the maker) anyway. -JMHO:yawn:
Kohai999
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Well, even though STeven has me wondering if I'm entitled to an opinion
........If the poster has not requested criticism why would you want to post any? On the other hand, I don't compiment knives unless either some feature or the knife itself just really knocks me out.
1. Everyone has an opinion one way or the other. What you know about what you are opining on, and how you do it, shows if it is an EDUCATED opinion, or not.
2. Post the criticism to help the maker. If it is generally good feedback, the maker knows that they are going in the right direction...if it is a bit harsh, maybe the maker has taken on more than their skills can handle at that time.....I'll ask you, MVF....where else are they supposed to get this feedback?
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
Some have mentioned A grade materials in a butt ugly knife (I guess it was STeven). I was a knife dealer for a long time and one thing that I just can´t get is how tons of people will stop to say something good about a horrible piece of work.
Sometimes the knife itself is not ugly, it´s just badly executed. Even to some of the famous guys. And people will jump in to say all great words to something that IMHO looks like crap.
Sometimes the knife itself is not ugly, it´s just badly executed. Even to some of the famous guys. And people will jump in to say all great words to something that IMHO looks like crap.
Les Robertson
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STeven has hit the nail on the head.
If your opinion is an "educated" one then by all means let the maker know what you think.
The question the maker has to ask themselves is: How educated is their opinion?
Is this base on personal knowledge from years of collecting knives, attending shows, and being active on forums.
Or, as it is in many cases...Education via what others feel or think. That being the Parrot Education. This person's opinion is equivalent of Parrot who only mimmicks what others say.
As, RL brings up an important point. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but some of them may not accurately describe what you are looking at.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
If your opinion is an "educated" one then by all means let the maker know what you think.
The question the maker has to ask themselves is: How educated is their opinion?
Is this base on personal knowledge from years of collecting knives, attending shows, and being active on forums.
Or, as it is in many cases...Education via what others feel or think. That being the Parrot Education. This person's opinion is equivalent of Parrot who only mimmicks what others say.
As, RL brings up an important point. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but some of them may not accurately describe what you are looking at.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com