Knife ambassadors

Les Robertson said:
The forums for a lot of people become a virtual club house...a place to hang out with your friends if you will.
Click to expand...

I assume you include bladeforums in that description? scrolling through the custom forum, there is a quite a difference in the forged-bowie-related threads and the non-forged-bowie-related threads...but i digress (as I do not want to hijack this thread).

back to mokume wishes and giraffe bone dreams.

RL
 
Greal post Les!

One of the reasons why I decided to sell my website was this weird thing about the relationships in the industry.

Collectors will form alliances and deep bounds to protect a maker (a crappy one) they both got the bad luck (and the horrible taste and lack of knowledge) to buy knives from.

Makers in a political position (such as the board of an organization) will use this position to personal benefit.

Makers fail to understand the general "Love" distribution and their true position in the market, often reflecting their misunderstanding on their price policy.

Makers with an established position in the market will encourage young makers of their tutorship to "price their knives according to their craft level" no matter no one has listened about the new guy or he has never gone to a show.

And the general gossiping and bad mouthing that will include makers and collectors that will make the whole thing look more like a Mexican soap opera than business.

I mean: ARE THOSE GUYS OUT THERE TO MAKE A LIVING OR FOR THE SOCIALS? Because more than once, specially the new guys, both collectors and makers, rather keep their social connections (based in "Love") then the sales and business of good knives.

Myself included when I first started. Hard lessons learned the hard way. Priorities changed, kids arrived and I decided its family time. Back on the topic:

I am really happy that I can throw this out now. Never had the nerve for that kind of stuff and maybe I was really on the wrong profession. Les will no better, he´s been out there since ... ever I guess, and might have his bruises.

From my part, if I should put out my 2 cents, that would be:

MAKERS: Listen to your dealers, focus on your work, develop self criticism, don´t go with the flow, use your personal judgment and be careful of what you listen and read. It may not be true, either good or bad.
 
Don't know about the "Love or Club" thing, however there are other reasons for a collector to buy a certain maker's knives in addition to just liking them.
There's the maker's position in the market which can assure your knives will go up in value. The maker's business practices and way he treats his customers.
 
We are jokingly calling out this phrase because of the examples that have occurred: Lousy knives, group hugs, high fives, no sales.... :confused: :(

But.... (here is where the wisdom and pacifism in me will always find a rationale), The Love is also the aftermath for the flighty and mysterious 'Buzz' that ALL makers aspire to, and I am dead certain a savvy dealer has profited by.

Making the distinction from getting love to generating buzz; that's part of our job as collectors who do their homework, to distinguish.

Good thread.

Coop
 
The Love Club thing is real Kevin and sometimes we get caught on it without warning. And it´s not a planned thing either.. people don´t unite in a hug fest planning to do so. It just happens that some individuals like to give ego massages in other individuals, and suddenly you have a group of people talking more than making business and makers get in that "Love" thing expecting the sales to happen but the orders never come in.
 
BrB said:
Greal post Les!
And the general gossiping and bad mouthing that will include makers and collectors that will make the whole thing look more like a Mexican soap opera than business.
.
Click to expand...


Two Questions??

1. Who are you??

2. What do you have against Spanish Novella's

I happen to be quite fond of Mexican Soap Opera's, in fact I watch one every night with my young Mexican Bride.

Here is the star of my favorite show.

You might try watching it sometime, its much more entertaining than listening to a bunch of makers and collectors gossip.



galila.jpg
 
Mike,

I think BrB is plenty qualified to comment--joking or otherwise--on Spanish Novella's. Brazil qualifies.... ;)

Coop
 
Kevin,

The "LOVE" and the "CLUB" are out there an it is huge.

You are unfamiliar with it primarily because you have done your homework and only collect knives from a few makers.

The "Love" is interesting to watch take place. Once you see it and you recognize what is happening it can be quite entertaining.

Once you have seen it, you will always recognize it.

Perhaps the ultimate in custom knife collector "group think".

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
RL said:
that is true...the danger is that there are always people who position themselves as "educated" (when they are not...or at least not as much as they think) and newer collectors can't tell the difference
Click to expand...

Newer collectors will learn a great many things over time - including how to assign weight to a proferred opinion. I am very much in favor of assisting newer collectors (much as many more experienced collectors, dealers and makers assisted me). However, I am not in favor limiting the discussion while they ascend the learning curve. And I perceive no great "danger" arising from the fact that they must develop for themselves the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff.

RL said:
The bottom line is that you can't give meaningful feedback until you have seen the knife in person (or at the VERY minimum, handled other knives by the same maker)...otherwise it is like trying to argue whether a ferrari is a better drive than a lamborghini based on pictures...until you get in the driver's seat...

RL
Click to expand...

Disagree with this completely. To suggest you can tell nothing (or nothing "meaningful") from a photograph is as unsupportable a proposition as suggesting you can tell everything from a photograph.

Photographs show plenty - though not everything, to be sure. The aesthetic appeal of a knife (or lack thereof) will largely be evident in a photograph. Certain functional aspects will also be apparent. The "feel" of the knife in hand and the performance of the blade in use can't be communicated in two dimensions, but that hardly supports the conclusion that "you can't give meaningful feedback" based on a photo.

You can't tell how a Ferrari drives from a photo, but you can discern the aesthetic differences between it and a minivan. Certain functional differences will also be quite apparent.

RL said:
I assume you include bladeforums in that description? scrolling through the custom forum, there is a quite a difference in the forged-bowie-related threads and the non-forged-bowie-related threads...but i digress (as I do not want to hijack this thread).
Click to expand...

If you didn't want to side-track the discussion, why raise it at all? Or is there another point to this post that has simply escaped me?

Roger
 
SharpByCoop said:
Mike,

I think BrB is plenty qualified to comment--joking or otherwise--on Spanish Novella's. Brazil qualifies.... ;)

Coop
Click to expand...

When did they start speaking Spanish in Brazil??

I have no idea who BrB is??

Is it Ivan Campos??
 
Sorry guys... most guys around already know me, so I somtimes don´t care about signing. My mistake, sincere apologies.

I am Jeff Velasco, former owner of the Brazilian Bladesmiths website that know is owned by Ivan Campos.

In Brazil we get a lot of Mexican Soap Opera, but only the crappy ones, so it became a joke, a figure of speach, to say something is like a latin drama, nothing against the Soap Operas and their beiatyful staff.

Just for the record, I have made the Brazilian Bladesmiths website from nothing, started with no contacts and made it happen during five years. I have introduced to the international arena some Brazilian makers that are doing a fine job, such as Claudio Werle, Gustavo C. Vilar, Eduardo Berardo and others. I have also worked a lot with established makers such as Luciano Dorneles and Rodrigo Sfreddo.

Now with two kids (twins in fact) and a better and most demanding day job I was forced to put all the trouble of running a knife dealing business, the good and the bad parts (you have read some of my reasons) and decided to move on. I intend (as time permits) to start making some hobby knives of my own.

Some forum mates were great costumers of mine as well as great supporters. So lots of guys here know me as "BrB" ... that´s why sometimes I forget to sign my posts.

Jeff Velasco
 
BrB said:
Sorry guys... most guys around already know me, so I somtimes don´t care about signing. My mistake, sincere apologies.

I am Jeff Velasco, former owner of the Brazilian Bladesmiths website that know is owned by Ivan Campos.

In Brazil we get a lot of Mexican Soap Opera, but only the crappy ones, so it became a joke, a figure of speach, to say something is like a latin drama, nothing against the Soap Operas and their beiatyful staff.

Just for the record, I have made the Brazilian Bladesmiths website from nothing, started with no contacts and made it happen during five years. I have introduced to the international arena some Brazilian makers that are doing a fine job, such as Claudio Werle, Gustavo C. Vilar, Eduardo Berardo and others. I have also worked a lot with established makers such as Luciano Dorneles and Rodrigo Sfreddo.

Now with two kids (twins in fact) and a better and most demanding day job I was forced to put all the trouble of running a knife dealing business, the good and the bad parts (you have read some of my reasons) and decided to move on. I intend (as time permits) to start making some hobby knives of my own.

Some forum mates were great costumers of mine as well as great supporters. So lots of guys here know me as "BrB" ... that´s why sometimes I forget to sign my posts.

Jeff Velasco
Click to expand...

Hey Jeff,

I thought you were Ivan!

My Bad.

Take Care!!
 
You might try watching it sometime, its much more entertaining than listening to a bunch of makers and collectors gossip.
Click to expand...

I bet it is. At least the TV show is not supposed to get any serious and so you won´t get pissed and frustrated. The mexican soap operas in Brazil are all in portuguese language. They change the sound tracks (don´t know the proper verb for that in english). My sister used to like them when we were kids. There was this one about a bunch of kids called Carrosel or something like that :barf:

I admit though, that nowadays I must reconsider my attitude towards this stuff. What´s the name of the show where this beauty acts??

Damn...:thumbup:
 
BrB said:
I bet it is. At least the TV show is not supposed to get any serious and so you won´t get pissed and frustrated. The mexican soap operas in Brazil are all in portuguese language. They change the sound tracks (don´t know the proper verb for that in english). My sister used to like them when we were kids. There was this one about a bunch of kids called Carrosel or something like that :barf:

I admit though, that nowadays I must reconsider my attitude towards this stuff. What´s the name of the show where this beauty acts??

Damn...:thumbup:
Click to expand...


Thats too funny!!

Spanish Soap Opera in Portugese!!

Her name is Galilea Montijo.

She is a celebrity in the Novellas as well as Vida Tv

Right now she is hosting Baila por un Sueno and it comes on weekly.

Lots of hot latina chicks dancing for their dreams while Galilea offers commentary.

Take Care.
 
RogerP said:
If you didn't want to side-track the discussion, why raise it at all? Or is there another point to this post that has simply escaped me?

Roger
Click to expand...

i was responding to Les' post..perhaps i should have said "side track it further"


1) Aesthetic appeal is subjective and, as i said earlier 2) it is NOT the only thing that matters 3) the way things look in photographs does always (usually) reflect the way things look in real life.

RL
 
RL said:
1) Aesthetic appeal is subjective and, as i said earlier 2) it is NOT the only thing that matters 3) the way things look in photographs does always (usually) reflect the way things look in real life.

RL
Click to expand...

1) Yes - highly subjective, but that doesn't make it less worthy of commentary or discussion. The appeal of custom knives is hardly limited to that which is objectively quantifiable.

2) You do seem to be suggesting, however, that aesthetics DON'T matter - hence your statement to the effect that NO meaningful feedback can be given based on a photograph. You are entitled to your opinion - I am expressing a contrary view.

3) It is beyond dispute that not ALL photographs show you EXACTLY how the knife looks is real life. But is is a vaulting leap from that proposition to your claim that "nothing meaningful" can be communicated by a photograph.

Roger
 
Just to throw more log in the fire...

... I´ve seen lots of great pictures of S$#%TY knives that almost make them look good. And later, handling the knives myself, I found the picture was hiding most of the bad execution of the knife. An angle that will not show a bad grind or a bed seal on a handle or guard. Lighting that will not show how poor the satin finish was. Even Photoshop used to change an irregular pin head on the handle or small pitches on the blade (that is a crime in my opinion) so... sometimes a picture can be deceiving.

But you said it right ... a picture "USUALY" reflects the way it looks in real life.

Coop: I guess your expertise would be most appreciated in this particular aspect of this thread. Can you give us some insights from the professional knife photographer point of view and an opinion on the amateur or "maker made" pictures?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top