Knife "batoning" for camp/survival fire making

Some people get batonning and "bashing my poor knife through a log because I'm bored" confused.
This is the crux of the "issue."
 
I can not see why i would ever think of doing that unless i had to
If i need to make smaller wood pieces out of a log i would just whittle or chop them off
 
Me being "abusive":

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(that one's really from 2010...same knife)


Which didn't seem much worse than chopping with it:

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Here's the BR made Scagel Large Bowie at work in chopping and batoning frozen 4" Maplewood.
There were no signs of damage to the edge, but I will anyhow let the edge grow thicker when sharpening, to be on the safe side.

This is a beefy knife for an 8" blade in 0,26" thick A2 steel at RC58.
I did this test of the knife in my garden and later continued in the warmth of the workshop.

In a real Outdoor situation, I wouldn't do this unless it would be necessary.
A hatchet would be my first choice, but I do have confidence in knowing the knife will handle it.

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Do I have to add, that this knife is pure joy to work with!:thumbup::D

Regards
Mikael
 
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Dorito Monk said:
I don't baton with my knives, for a couple of reasons:

1) I feel is outright needlessly abusive to baton with a knife, especially when the knife wasn't purpose-built for doing it. The scores of "I broke my knife while batoning, what went wrong???" BF Threads / Youtube Videos are a testament to the fact that you're much more likely to break your knife if you choose to baton with it. I do a lot of borderline-abusive things with my knives on occasion, but batoning is kind of where I draw the line. If you want to baton with your knives, go for it, but you have no-one but yourself to blame if they snap / chip / disintegrate.

2) I've been going camping since I was very small, and I've never NEEDED to baton with my knives. I would submit that very very few people have ever NEEDED to baton their knives through logs to split firewood. In nearly any situation where you might want to baton your knife through a log, you could, instead, just do what this guy does:

[youtube]N-WuP-xYlnc[/youtube]

When I was small, that's basically the way I learned to split wood without the use of a hatchet/axe/splitting maul - make a notch, apply a wedge, hammer the wedge through the log to split it. The risk of breaking your knife, hurting yourself, etc. is almost nil, and you don't need a great big sharpened prybar to do it. For most of my life, I only brought a single blade pocket knife for camping purposes alongside a hatchet and small saw, and I could make do without the saw OR the hatchet when it comes to firemaking if I really needed to, using a wedge and a little bit of imagination.

Now, if you do WANT to baton with your knives, that's just fine as far as I'm concerned. Lots of folks have fun with it, and there are plenty of knives on the market now that are specifically built to handle that kind of use (like the venerable Bk2, which is apparently harder to kill than the Terminator robot :eek:). I would suggest that if you want to baton things, you should only do it with knives that are made to withstand that particular task. It's not a fad I subscribe to, though, and it's really not something you NEED to do with your knives at all - just a matter of preference.
Click to expand...

This is worth repeating. I would urge everyone to watch the vid clip to see the correct way to split wood without an axe.
 
pap11y said:
I dont usually need to. I always have hatchet or machete so knife is used for other tasks
Click to expand...
Same here. I like having the Blunt end my my hatchet to use a hammer. I carry a Estwing sportsmen axe with me when I go hunting and camping its just so much more efficient at breaking down fire wood and much better for chopping down small trees.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
By the way, the technique you used to run over the knife isn't really a good test of its strength. That's all compressive rather than deflective or torsional force. But the BK-2 is, indeed, an absolute glutton for punishment. :)
Click to expand...

I noted that in my thread! It was to test the strength of the Grivory scales. I know the strength of this 1/4" beast! I pried apart a door I couldn't kick through or run through.
 
Yeah I don't know man, I don't know what people freak out and debate for hours about. I baton wood with my bk9, not because its fun, not because I'm testing the limits if my gear, I do it because its freaking cold out and frozen hardwood burns better and longer when its split; and I'm walking really far with a big heavy pack on so carrying an axe is heavy. I baton because there's nothing wrong with using the right knife for the right task and proper technique, I've split frozen maple knots with no chipping, rolling, or snapping of any blade I've used. Axes are great but I'm not swinging my 150$ axe towards the ground without the awesome chopping block that's in everyone's video's and pics. With limited space, weight, and no chopping block I will baton.
 
A.P.F. said:
This is worth repeating. I would urge everyone to watch the vid clip to see the correct way to split wood without an axe.
Click to expand...

It's such a small blade too. This totally changed my views on knife battoning. It makes me wonder why this isn't more commonly practiced in the infamous battoning videos on Youtube...I haven't seen any of the "experts" doing this.
 
I just cannot understand the need for batoning.

If at home or camp have an ax, hatchet, maul or sledge and wedge. Much easier and quicker to use the proper tools for the job. Plus the tools are brute tough.

Same for in the woods, use the right tools. I've started many fires with just stockman and a match. Use small wood to burn large wood and the fire to cut long lenghts into shorter. Plus, how can you baton a 6' or 8' lenght of tree truck?

What do you do when you've pounded your knife into a twisted piece of hardwood and get it stuck when you really need a fire? All the videos and pics I've seen of batoning have been short lenghts of wood with straight grain. In a real situation it just doesn't come that way.
 
More BK9 Action here:
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I bought the BK9 specifically for yard cleanup and the tree was a good first test. It passed...

Granted, it was mostly chopping but you get the point.
 
LCO213 said:
It's such a small blade too. This totally changed my views on knife battoning. It makes me wonder why this isn't more commonly practiced in the infamous battoning videos on Youtube...I haven't seen any of the "experts" doing this.
Click to expand...

It's good and so is the Ray Mears video too.
If You want more there is "Karamat Wilderness Ways".

Regards
Mikael
 
weight.....i'm not packing an axe or single purpose hatchet into the woods, and really how much wood do you need to process to get a fire going? i use the sven to get manageable rounds, then machete to split those rounds and finally a knife of some sort mixed with some batoning for kindling and the rest....i don't really get this conversation....granted i'm never really in one spot long enough to require something along the lines of an axe to pull live trees down, most of the time it's just better to get some of the aged stuff from the ground or lower parts of living trees and cut up....i tried carrying an axe my first year of backpacking but jettisoned it about 10 miles up the side of a mountain because the weight was killing me, that was about 19 years ago, then i tried the hatchet as that was the next logical choice for being in a heavily wooded area, used that for a couple of years till i bought my first machete and took it with me....never looked back...it has many more uses that an hatchet or axe...i can do alot of my camp chores with just the machete alone, i find my bigger knives that people are using to baton here almost redundant to a certain point...personally i like to know my knives can do this in case the machete goes down i still have a chopper up and running...i guess it's like others have said "because i can"

now yes, if i was car camping, working in the yard, or in the same spot for more than a few days i would totally consider an axe, it would be a must have if i was dick proenneke.....
but realistically for 2~3 days packing and moving, i think the axe,hatchet is limited for the amount of wood you need to process and get on with things...i think it really comes down to how you work in the wilderness, how long your in a given location, and "your style" ..... i don't think there is anything wrong with batoning, like any skill if done wrong your going to break equipment or get hurt, i think making blanket statements either way on the matter is incorrect, there's a time,need and acceptable way of doing it, and then there is not....
ok now laugh me off the forum, hahah, that's just my view on it, feel free to practice as you wish!
 
theizzardking said:
weight.....i'm not packing an axe or single purpose hatchet into the woods, and really how much wood do you need to process to get a fire going? i use the sven to get manageable rounds, then machete to split those rounds and finally a knife of some sort mixed with some batoning for kindling and the rest....i don't really get this conversation....granted i'm never really in one spot long enough to require something along the lines of an axe to pull live trees down, most of the time it's just better to get some of the aged stuff from the ground or lower parts of living trees and cut up....i tried carrying an axe my first year of backpacking but jettisoned it about 10 miles up the side of a mountain because the weight was killing me, that was about 19 years ago, then i tried the hatchet as that was the next logical choice for being in a heavily wooded area, used that for a couple of years till i bought my first machete and took it with me....never looked back...it has many more uses that an hatchet or axe...i can do alot of my camp chores with just the machete alone, i find my bigger knives that people are using to baton here almost redundant to a certain point...personally i like to know my knives can do this in case the machete goes down i still have a chopper up and running...i guess it's like others have said "because i can"

now yes, if i was car camping, working in the yard, or in the same spot for more than a few days i would totally consider an axe, it would be a must have if i was dick proenneke.....
but realistically for 2~3 days packing and moving, i think the axe,hatchet is limited for the amount of wood you need to process and get on with things...i think it really comes down to how you work in the wilderness, how long your in a given location, and "your style" ..... i don't think there is anything wrong with batoning, like any skill if done wrong your going to break equipment or get hurt, i think making blanket statements either way on the matter is incorrect, there's a time,need and acceptable way of doing it, and then there is not....
ok now laugh me off the forum, hahah, that's just my view on it, feel free to practice as you wish!
Click to expand...

Great post!
You have found the answers that works for You and You have learnt the skills the hard way.
That gets my Thumbup!:thumbup:

I choosed the knife instead of the machete, but for the same reasons and it never failed.
The handle has been damaged many times and repaired.
So has the sheath but the brass pins and guard are replacements.

It's still in one piece after more than 40 years,sometimes abused due to my lack of knowledge in younger years.
Today I'm much more careful with my tools and I can also take the axe instead, but the knife will always be No.1 for me.

View attachment 328842Klaas-Bowie1.jpg

Regards
Mikael
 
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theizzardking said:
weight.....i'm not packing an axe or single purpose hatchet into the woods, and really how much wood do you need to process to get a fire going? i use the sven to get manageable rounds, then machete to split those rounds and finally a knife of some sort mixed with some batoning for kindling and the rest....i don't really get this conversation....granted i'm never really in one spot long enough to require something along the lines of an axe to pull live trees down, most of the time it's just better to get some of the aged stuff from the ground or lower parts of living trees and cut up....i tried carrying an axe my first year of backpacking but jettisoned it about 10 miles up the side of a mountain because the weight was killing me, that was about 19 years ago, then i tried the hatchet as that was the next logical choice for being in a heavily wooded area, used that for a couple of years till i bought my first machete and took it with me....never looked back...it has many more uses that an hatchet or axe...i can do alot of my camp chores with just the machete alone, i find my bigger knives that people are using to baton here almost redundant to a certain point...personally i like to know my knives can do this in case the machete goes down i still have a chopper up and running...i guess it's like others have said "because i can"
Click to expand...

What's a 'Sven'?

I tried googling it, but all I turned up was this guy:

sven-old.jpg


:confused:

Also,

theizzardking said:
.i think it really comes down to how you work in the wilderness, how long your in a given location, and "your style"
Click to expand...

Well said. Some folks find batoning works best, some folks find a hatchet works best, some folks favour rambo sawback knives... Different strokes for different folks.
 
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