Knife "batoning" for camp/survival fire making

Balboa256 said:
If I had only ONE knife, you can bet your butt I would not be batoning with it. If I NEEDED to baton, it would be thumb size pieces for kindling. I've started more fires with out a knife, using a bic lighter as a kid/teen in all weather the northern Great Lakes region could throw at me and I never NEEDED to chop or baton. Im glad I learned like this for so many years. People often ask "Im new to bushcraft/hiking. What knife should I get"? I always say, go without a knife for at least a year. That will determine what kind of tools you need. As kids we wandered far from roads and houses, playing in the woods. Never had a fear of getting into a "survival" situation. This attitude screams city slicker IMHO. It shows your uncomfortable in the woods and you don't trust yourself to be able to avoid bad situations. Go out and have fun, be safe, respect nature and learn to be in the woods without a bag full of sharp tools. "Need" and "want" are two completely different things. Its fun to chop with knives and baton wood but not always necessary. I am in no way trying to bash people who practice wilderness survival.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. In my SAR training we didn't even use a cutting tool. Shelter building and fire making in the rain sucks but it can be done without a knife. For me a cutting tool is a way to do things faster and easier. I don't consider having a knife an absolute necessity. Also of note is that most people who camp and hike are generally doing it in the times of year and types of weather where a need for a cutting tool is really close to 0.
 
Of all of my knives, I'd say these two are the most capable of battoning without worrying for breakages.

Cold steel bushman..



British MOD issue survival knife..




1/4 inch thick carbon steel beast!
 
Balboa256 said:
I've started more fires with out a knife, using a bic lighter as a kid/teen in all weather the northern Great Lakes region could throw at me and I never NEEDED to chop or baton. Im glad I learned like this for so many years. People often ask "Im new to bushcraft/hiking. What knife should I get"? I always say, go without a knife for at least a year.
Click to expand...

Why not leave the lighter at home too?
And the coat?
And the boots, and pants too...
Tools make things easier (even clothing is a tool, a tool to keep you dry and/or warm).
 
stabman said:
Why not leave the lighter at home too?
And the coat?
And the boots, and pants too...
Tools make things easier (even clothing is a tool, a tool to keep you dry and/or warm).
Click to expand...
I take my lighter because I haven't mastered primitive fire making.
If its warm, I don't take a coat
I always wear boots and pants in the woods. Not wearing pants might get me in legal trouble.
But im not quite getting your point here brother. If your point is to blow things out of proportion than you have succeeded. I can last a day in 32 degree weather without a knife. I CANT last a day in that same weather without boots, pants and a coat. Follow my logic? Many survival experts will tell you that a lighter is more important than a knife in any given 72hr survival scenario. Now, Which do you NEED more in the woods? Clothing or a knife? If this isn't obvious to you, may I suggest you don't wander to far from your couch.....
 
Balboa256 said:
I take my lighter because I haven't mastered primitive fire making.
If its warm, I don't take a coat
I always wear boots and pants in the woods. Not wearing pants might get me in legal trouble.
But im not quite getting your point here brother. If your point is to blow things out of proportion than you have succeeded. I can last a day in 32 degree weather without a knife. I CANT last a day in that same weather without boots, pants and a coat. Follow my logic? Many survival experts will tell you that a lighter is more important than a knife in any given 72hr survival scenario. Now, Which do you NEED more in the woods? Clothing or a knife? If this isn't obvious to you, may I suggest you don't wander to far from your couch.....
Click to expand...

Point taken. A plastic bag may be more important than a knife - or a lighter that craps out when wet or at/below freezing. All depends.

Still, you come to a knife forum and label the regulars as city slickers and couch potatoes when they are reluctant to agree with you. Is that meeting a need?
 
Balboa256 said:
If I had only ONE knife, you can bet your butt I would not be batoning with it. If I NEEDED to baton, it would be thumb size pieces for kindling. I've started more fires with out a knife, using a bic lighter as a kid/teen in all weather the northern Great Lakes region could throw at me and I never NEEDED to chop or baton. Im glad I learned like this for so many years. People often ask "Im new to bushcraft/hiking. What knife should I get"? I always say, go without a knife for at least a year. That will determine what kind of tools you need. As kids we wandered far from roads and houses, playing in the woods. Never had a fear of getting into a "survival" situation. This attitude screams city slicker IMHO. It shows your uncomfortable in the woods and you don't trust yourself to be able to avoid bad situations. Go out and have fun, be safe, respect nature and learn to be in the woods without a bag full of sharp tools. "Need" and "want" are two completely different things. Its fun to chop with knives and baton wood but not always necessary. I am in no way trying to bash people who practice wilderness survival.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine not having a knife with me in the woods, usually two (folder and fixed blade) since I carry a knife every day. As far as batoning, I would only do it if the outside of the wood is wet and I can't find any kindling. Not something that happens much. Yeah, I take the Bic lighter and matches with me as well along with some minimal first aid stuff.

Ba;lbpa256 said... I take my lighter because I haven't mastered primitive fire making.
If its warm, I don't take a coat
I always wear boots and pants in the woods. Not wearing pants might get me in legal trouble.
But im not quite getting your point here brother. If your point is to blow things out of proportion than you have succeeded. I can last a day in 32 degree weather without a knife. I CANT last a day in that same weather without boots, pants and a coat. Follow my logic? Many survival experts will tell you that a lighter is more important than a knife in any given 72hr survival scenario. Now, Which do you NEED more in the woods? Clothing or a knife? If this isn't obvious to you, may I suggest you don't wander to far from your couch.....
Click to expand...

I would take a "coat" even in the summer for nightime temps. The No. 1 survival aid is FIRE assuming you have water or it is likely to be a short term affair.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Point taken. A plastic bag may be more important than a knife - or a lighter that craps out when wet or at/below freezing. All depends.

Still, you come to a knife forum and label the regulars as city slickers and couch potatoes when they are reluctant to agree with you. Is that meeting a need?
Click to expand...
First off, I stated an opinion. The phrase "city clickers" was given before anyone disagreed with me. Secondly, I was just being as sarcastic as the person whom posted to my response. Not trying to meet any needs here brother, just giving opinions which everyone should be doing. No person was labeled a "couch potato". I stated "dont wander far from your couch". Are we grown men or not? C'mon, a little sarcasm and ball-busting doesnt hurt. I could really care less if someone has a different wilderness philosophy than me, it doesnt mean I wouldnt hike with them or be friends with them. I dont take this stuff personal and I wish you wouldnt either. Now, my reply was to a gentleman who made a direct comparison to not bringing a knife with not bringing boots, a coat and pants. Am I the only one who finds that comical? I am assuming he is joking, as he can assume I was back to him as well...and in that case we would both be correct.

Now to your point. Any piece of gear can fail. Knock on wood, I havent had a Bic lighter fail and if it did I have another and a ferro rod. Most of us dont hike deep into the Alps every week.
 
stabman said:
It's not a very good couch.
Wandering around far from it tends to be more comfortable. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Awesome dude, Im glad you didnt get butt hurt by my comment. And you are correct about wandering from the couch. Infact, just get rid of the couch all together so the nearest one is at your neighbors...talk about comfort!!!:thumbup:
 
Last edited:
22-rimfire said:
I can't imagine not having a knife with me in the woods, usually two (folder and fixed blade) since I carry a knife every day. As far as batoning, I would only do it if the outside of the wood is wet and I can't find any kindling. Not something that happens much. Yeah, I take the Bic lighter and matches with me as well along with some minimal first aid stuff.



I would take a "coat" even in the summer for nightime temps. The No. 1 survival aid is FIRE assuming you have water or it is likely to be a short term affair.
Click to expand...

Where Im at, if I needed water badly, I could just put my face in one of the many creeks and drink. Yes, FIRE is Number 1. Thats why I carry the lighter. I am a knife lover and I do always carry a knife now. But for many years of my life It wasnt such a necessity. I remember my pops sometimes just bringing a pair of vice grips (clamped on the belt loop of his pants) and a razor blade to do out fish. There wasnt any "style" involved. Wasnt much talk about gear. We would pick cardone and mushrooms and wander creeks all day. My old man had a level of comfort in the woods that many old timers had. Appearence of tools didnt matter. Either they worked or they didnt.
 
Last edited:
Balboa, please edit out the middle sentence as I didn't say that in my post. Never referred to my Father as "Pops" in my life although he did carry a stockman.

I have purposely not commented on your city slicker comment. I just raised an eye brow and moved on with the general thought behind your post.

I carried a knife since I was a very young boy and would feel somewhat "naked" without one for the most part, but especially in the woods even if I didn't use it for anything. Yes, the older generation did have a comfort level in the woods that didn't involve a lot of the tools we depend on these days. But some things are actually better now. I recall the early ferro rods being called permanent matches or something like that.
 
Batoning is a good skill to learn. Because you can do it wrong. You can even baton with folders as long as you break the lock and only use the blade. Just never use something harder than your knife to hit it with bc something has to give (the wood, the baton or you knife).
 
It could hardly be "personal."

In point of fact, "experts" have written books on going into the wilderness with no gear - even advocating backpacking naked (I think he still wore boots.), and many here have read those books. In light of that school of thought, it is neither sarcastic nor ball-busting to ask, in effect, where you draw the line. Your answer places you in the spectrum of thinking on the topic of this forum. Now we know.

To some, it is ill-advised not to have a knife. "Some" would include most acknowledged authorities on wilderness survival over the last few generations. That is their view not, to your point, because a knife is always most important but because a knife is so often useful and may, like other gear, be the difference.

I think you will find that there is another sub-forum at Blade Forums where sarcasm, ball-busting, and worrying about who is or is not "butt hurt" is the order of the day. We have been repeatedly and clearly told by the Mods that this is not that place.
 
pap11y said:
I dont usually need to. I always have hatchet or machete so knife is used for other tasks
Click to expand...

Bingo! An axe will work circles around a knife in wood processing tasks... but I guess some need to feel "cool" cutting sticks and shrubble with their 10" blades hahahaha
 
I agree about the axe, but who carries an axe out into the woods unless you know ahead of time that you'll need it or you are carrying everything on a horse or ATV? You might carry the big knife however.
 
Thomas Linton said:
It could hardly be "personal."

In point of fact, "experts" have written books on going into the wilderness with no gear - even advocating backpacking naked (I think he still wore boots.), and many here have read those books. In light of that school of thought, it is neither sarcastic nor ball-busting to ask, in effect, where you draw the line. Your answer places you in the spectrum of thinking on the topic of this forum. Now we know.

To some, it is ill-advised not to have a knife. "Some" would include most acknowledged authorities on wilderness survival over the last few generations. That is their view not, to your point, because a knife is always most important but because a knife is so often useful and may, like other gear, be the difference.

I think you will find that there is another sub-forum at Blade Forums where sarcasm, ball-busting, and worrying about who is or is not "butt hurt" is the order of the day. We have been repeatedly and clearly told by the Mods that this is not that place.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I will try to be more serious.:rolleyes: There is an expert for everything buddy. One expert says you don't need a knife over 5 inches another says you do. One expert says wear wool another says wear gortex and apparently you're telling me some experts encourage nude hiking while others encourage proper clothing, etc... Most people who hike often are not more than an hour from their vehicle at any given time. Also, if you know you don't have certain gear then don't wander ten miles from your car or truck. If any problem occurs just walk back to the car and go home. Not every outing requires tools for extended wilderness living. Now, a hike deep into the woods for a longer amount of time does usually require some tools. These survival situation preparations are usually fantasy based and real survival situations are a result of numerous mistakes, not a single mistake like not having a knife.
As far as people asking "where I draw the line"....C'mon, use your sense man. That's analogous to me asking you: "well if you bring a knife, how about a butchers steel, butchers block and several whetstones. Where do you draw the line man?"

I don't want to detract from this thread anymore, fire back if you like but I am done.

If you want to baton, get the correct knife and use the proper technique and you will be fine.

-Take care brother and stay in your spectrum.:)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top