Knife carry w/ backpack

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the picture of the guy in white, that pack is way to short for his body! It's supposed to sit where a belt sits, you can see how far his is above his belt and basically around his stomache. This defeats the purpose of the belt entirely. The point of those packs is to put about 70% of the weight on ur hips not to keep it tight to your body or anything else, If you go to a good store and buy a pack they will fill it with weight and set it all up for you. But if you try to carry a lot of weight with hip straps that high you might as well just take them off because they aren't doing anything.
Don't mean to pick on the guy in the stylish white hiking attire he was just the picture on here that I used for an example.



If you are talking about the picture of me, I assure you that pack is perfectly sized for my torso. I stated this in the other posts I made in this thread, but a pack hipbelt should ride centered or on the top of your iliac crest if you expect any load transfer. I wear my pants lower than where my hip belt rides. The pants/belt buckle ends up a few inches below my belly button and stomach. When properly sized, a hip belt rides such that the buckle ends up over my belly button or thereabouts on my waist, over my hips. Let me reiterate, the top of your iliac crest is NOT where the average guy wears his pants. Your hip belt should NOT ride where your pants belt normally rides, unless you like wearing your pants high for some reason. Your hipbelt should be above your pants belt.

Furthermore, when properly fitted, you should be carrying next to no weight on your shoulders; I'd put it closer to 5-10% or under if I had to put a number on it, not 30%.

I stress, again, the importance of getting fitted by someone competent.
 
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If you are talking about the picture of me, I assure you that pack is perfectly sized for my torso. I stated this in the other posts I made in this thread, but a pack hipbelt should ride centered or on the top of your iliac crest if you expect any load transfer. I wear my pants lower than where my hip belt rides. The pants/belt buckle ends up a few inches below my belly button and stomach. When properly sized, a hip belt rides such that the buckle ends up over my belly button or thereabouts on my waist, over my hips. Let me reiterate, the top of your iliac crest is NOT where the average guy wears his pants. Your hip belt should NOT ride where your pants belt normally rides, unless you like wearing your pants high for some reason. Your hipbelt should be above your pants belt.Furthermore, when properly fitted, you should be carrying next to no weight on your shoulders; I'd put it closer to 5-10% or under if I had to put a number on it, not 30%.I stress, again, the importance of getting fitted by someone competent.
For some strange reason you've just reminded me of how Simon Cowell hides his gunt.
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For some strange reason you've just reminded me of how Simon Cowell hides his gunt.

Haha! :D

I'm still searching for an ultralight pack. Yesterday I got fitted at the REI store in Fort Collins. They have a very cool gage made of flexible plastic. There's a sort of hip belt part that you cinch around your waist. It has a gap in the middle where your are supposed to locate your iliac crest. Then you just lean your head forward and the guy reads your torso length right off the gage.

I tried to measure myself with a tape measure before, but got it wrong and had to send a pack back. The pack I'm interested in has to be ordered. REI said I could order it sent to the store then try it on with sandbags and return it immediately if it doesn't fit. That's a pretty good deal. :thumbup:

Yeah, they have those things provided by Osprey, and Gregory too, I think, which illustrates the concept clearly :thumbup:

And yeah, they're good about doing things like that for their customers :thumbup: Which pack is it?

[...]I actually just wrote about this on another thread, there were pics of guys acting like they knew what they were doing and the hip belt wrapped around their stomache LOL. You need the hip belts center to ride on the top of your hip bone. [...] I am a guide so I spend a lot more time in the woods then most as it is part of my way I make a living. [...]

I'm actually a bit baffled that someone who claims to be a guide doesn't know or recognize something so fundamental in this regard... YMMV and HYOH. I mean, you even basically say the same thing yourself, so I guess I'm just confused by your comments, let alone the ridiculing tone...
 
I hear good things about Granite Gear packs, and they seem well-regarded in the BPL community. My Osprey Talon 44 was around 2lbs, and it had a frame sheet of sorts (more of a flexible HDPE sheet with stays and cross-pieces added for rigidity), it may be worth your looking into if the volume is good for you (probably not if you're looking at the Crown VC 60). Do you require a ventilated back, and does any brick and mortar near you retail Ultralight Adventure Equipment packs? I'm biased on the ULA front, because they work so excellently for me, but I only recommend things I've had direct experience using. If you have the ability to check out the ULA packs in person, I would urge you to. If you use CCF for a pad, you can stiffen up the pack nicely, more than well enough for an UL gear load. The Circuit and Ohm 2.0 weigh around 2lbs depending how much much you want to strip off the stock pack, and are in the volume range you're looking at (all pockets counted). The Catalyst would be even larger and apparently works well as a real load hauler, if you'll be carrying lots of added food/water weight. Another good option that might work for you, since you're at low weight, is the Osprey Exos 58. Not a frame sheet, but a nice trampoline back that provides excellent ventilation with a stiff frame. It really is a fit-dependent pack though; the AirSpeed suspension just isn't comfortable for some folks (I couldn't get it to work for me, no matter how much I like the pack). I'd DEFINITELY look into that one since REI retails it. If you don't like it, you know they'll be good about it. :thumbup:


ETA: just looked at the specs for the Granite Gear again, looks pretty good and a few ounces lighter than the Osprey Exos 58 to boot. If you want to keep it in REI, it's going to come down to which carries weight better for you and your materials/design preferences, since a few ounces difference won't mean much if a pack is slightly heavier but carries the same weight much more comfortably than the other options.
 
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I find it interesting that the Snugpak's larger military packs like the Bergan are designed with the waist belt riding higher than most. I've heard that it's so the you can still wear a handgun or knife on your pants belt without it interfering with easy access incase
it's needed in a hurry.
 
[...]
(derailing a perfectly good thread...oh well, it's two years old so who cares right?)

Yeah, anything short of the Airspeed type trampoline suspension, my back gets hot and sweaty anyway, so the no-frills straight fabric back of something like the ULA Ohm 2.0 works fine for me. Just for reference, I use a full size Zlite pad in my Ohm 2.0 to create the frame, and it gets used at night as my sleeping pad. The rectangular fold type pads like the Zlite works perfectly for this in the Ohm, if you have a regular roll up pad, it will still work but not be as "tidy". I like that the pad does double duty as frame/stiffener and sleeping pad. If I want to take my neoair, I just use 6 panels of a Zlite I cut from another pad, and 4 would probably work too - then I have a sit pad or washing platform.

I could get a week with food out of my Talon 44 (have done 5 days, know I could fit at least two more days) and that's about it. So, if you can downsize your gear or really focus on efficient, space-saving, packing I'm confident you can get more days out of a sub-50L pack than a weekend. I think first you should find out what volume your gear and anticipated food (non-canister, I'm assuming) for your longest outing without re-supply will take up, then you can narrow down your search to the packs that have just enough capacity without too much extra space (and thus extra weight). If you can fit in a sub-50L, great. I have two packs right now, my weekender to probably week pack without canister is the Ohm 2.0 (27.9oz measured) with 42L in the main compartment if using the extension collar. With canister or longer trip without canister, my Circuit (40.6oz measured, slightly heavier because I got one with 500d Cordura replacing the dyneema sections) gives me 47L in the main compartment with extension collar. The Catalyst isn't a bad option if you want more room and a load hauler, but it is the heaviest of the 3.

The more specialized cottage industry ultralight packs like those from SMD or Zpacks look great, but I think you really have to have your weight and style dialed in before committing to one of those. There are some that look like they'll work well even at higher weights (MLD Exodus Full Suspension, for instance), but I feel like it's best to start with less expensive and more readily available packs before deciding to "upgrade" to a lighter, more specialized pack from a cottage maker. Kinda along the lines of getting a Mora, and figuring out what does and doesn't work for you before dropping your hard-earned dough on a nice custom. I personally prefer the ULA for the compromise in durability and lightweight, price, simple design, reputation, and the amazing hipbelt. But I definitely started with the Ospreys and worked my way into lighter options as I learned more.

Yeah, being limited to mail order is a hassle. Just a note, if you choose to try ULA, they are very good about returns and such for sizing purposes. I've even heard stories about people ordering two sizes, only being charged for one, and shipping back the one that didn't fit when they received the packs and were able to load them up and try them out. The nice thing about going light if you're inclined, as you are: it's possible to use whatever gear is readily available or doable on a tight budget to get down to a low weight. The bulk of going light is how you approach it before even buying more gear; replacing with lighter gear just helps if you want to get to rock bottom weights for some reason.

I see all kinds of people on the trail and in the backcountry: heavy, light, inexpensive, expensive. I don't judge a book by the cover anymore - I've met/seen great outdoorsmen in all kinds of gear whom I respect. The main thing is that they're getting out there, enjoying themselves, and not putting anyone else at risk or inconvenience :thumbup:

You probably already know this, but just in case, make sure you make use of the pillows as well as the sandbags in REI. I've heard/read, and it's been my experience, that packs carry much better when the volume is filled to capacity. I don't stuff my quilt/bag; I just stick it in the bottom of my liner and use my other gear to compress as much as needed. This fills the pack better and makes for more efficient use of space.

Anyway, best of luck on your search :thumbup: I have a habit of derailing threads too :o, so this will be my last post here. We can carry on in email or visitor messages if you need to :thumbup: If you have any questions about the Exos line, OwenM is your man. He's used both the 46 and 58 extensively and can probably share some solid experience with you. That guy gets out and puts his sh!t to use :thumbup:
 
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I should say I've broadened my mind a lot since then. Some guys with very good gear are experts, some beginners. Also some guys have been doing this forever, but still buy everything at Wally World (my father). My mother hiked for years and years with her hiking club, but refused to buy anything at REI. "Too expensive!" :rolleyes:

Thanks for the help :thumbup:

I hear ya :thumbup:

I have an older colleague whom I respect greatly, he's the same way. The last time I did a trip with him, his tent fly had de-laminated from having loaned it out to a niece who put it away wet, which he unwittingly stored that way for a good number of years. I told him he could probably get a replacement that was around the right size and shape, but he said "nah, some cheap shower curtains outta do the trick". Sure enough, on the trip he busts out a couple of cheap shower curtains and some plastic clothespins to pin it to the poles :D Did the job well enough, though I kept ribbing him that we were lucky it wasn't a very windy/stormy trip :D I learned from him the trick of not letting your pack sit in the dirt when stopping for a break by using your hiking stick or trekking pole to prop it up. Small thing, sure, but was new to me nonetheless. I'm sure I'll learn something new this July when we do the Canyon of the Tuolumne together, him with his old external and old gear or new inexpensive gear replacements from wally world, and me with my modern crap... :) I did convince him to adopt the pop can stove though :D

No prob, Joe, I learn from you as well :thumbup:
 
I have a sheath that has a drop-loop. It folds behind the sheath when I want to wear it normally, or when employed, drops it just below my packs' waistbelts. When I'm in the woods, I feel best if my knife, my compass, my map and fire stuff is on my person, rather than in my pack.

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
If you are talking about the picture of me, I assure you that pack is perfectly sized for my torso. I stated this in the other posts I made in this thread, but a pack hipbelt should ride centered or on the top of your iliac crest if you expect any load transfer. I wear my pants lower than where my hip belt rides. The pants/belt buckle ends up a few inches below my belly button and stomach. When properly sized, a hip belt rides such that the buckle ends up over my belly button or thereabouts on my waist, over my hips. Let me reiterate, the top of your iliac crest is NOT where the average guy wears his pants. Your hip belt should NOT ride where your pants belt normally rides, unless you like wearing your pants high for some reason. Your hipbelt should be above your pants belt.

Furthermore, when properly fitted, you should be carrying next to no weight on your shoulders; I'd put it closer to 5-10% or under if I had to put a number on it, not 30%.

I stress, again, the importance of getting fitted by someone competent.


So let me get this straight your hips are a above your belly button? Wow that's weird mine are below it. And I got my pack fitted by a very competent person. You may have heard of mark synott? He's a close friend and a world known mountaineer with multiple sponsorships. He was with me at EMS helping me find my pack and stood there when the guy did it. He sai that would work perfect. You can wear yours however you would like to. You can show everyone you hips above your belly button at P Diddys white party
 
I'm actually a bit baffled that someone who claims to be a guide doesn't know or recognize something so fundamental in this regard... YMMV and HYOH. I mean, you even basically say the same thing yourself, so I guess I'm just confused by your comments, let alone the ridiculing tone...[/QUOTE]

Your baffled because your wrong. Find any competent hiker and you'll see his hip belt is around his HIPS not his lower rib cage. There's plenty of guys on this site saying the same exact thing. Think whatever you want, I spend quite a bit of time in the woods and have done many trails and mountain peaks including Rainer, the AT, & PCT. I have a completely full guide schedule before the year even starts and it's all by word of mouth because I do know what I'm talking about. Sorry I don't hike wearing all white and crocks so maybe I'm missing out on a style thing. But I'll gladly go to an REI or EMS and bet you that if you show them how you wear your they will say your wrong. But you know and everyone else is obviously way behind your skill and knowledge level
 
So let me get this straight your hips are a above your belly button? Wow that's weird mine are below it. And I got my pack fitted by a very competent person. You may have heard of mark synott? He's a close friend and a world known mountaineer with multiple sponsorships. He was with me at EMS helping me find my pack and stood there when the guy did it. He sai that would work perfect. You can wear yours however you would like to. You can show everyone you hips above your belly button at P Diddys white party

Your baffled because your wrong. Find any competent hiker and you'll see his hip belt is around his HIPS not his lower rib cage. There's plenty of guys on this site saying the same exact thing. Think whatever you want, I spend quite a bit of time in the woods and have done many trails and mountain peaks including Rainer, the AT, & PCT. I have a completely full guide schedule before the year even starts and it's all by word of mouth because I do know what I'm talking about. Sorry I don't hike wearing all white and crocks so maybe I'm missing out on a style thing. But I'll gladly go to an REI or EMS and bet you that if you show them how you wear your they will say your wrong. But you know and everyone else is obviously way behind your skill and knowledge level



Hahahah, Riiiight. :rolleyes: I have no need to argue with or convince you. Do what you're going to do, more power to ya.
 
An exert from The Backpackers Handbook by Chris Townsend. Great book.
The key measurement for finding the right size is the distance from the base of your neck to your upper hipbone, technically from the seventh cervical vertebra (a clearly felt knob) to the top of the iliac crest, which you can find by digging your thumbs into your sides.
The hipbelt should ride with its upper edge about an inch above your hipbone, so that the weight is borne by the broadest, strongest part of your hips. The top of the frame, if there is one, should then be 2 to 4 inches above your shoulders so that the load-lifter straps rise at an angle of about 45 degrees.
 
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Exactly, and whilst trolls may well have short squat little bodies and long knuckle dragging arms it is quite apparent from the position of HikingMano's elbow relative to everything else that he is on target. An unsavoury fixation on Billy Goats Gruff clothing could probably blind one to that though as he transcends.
 
Exactly, and whilst trolls may well have short squat little bodies and long knuckle dragging arms it is quite apparent from the position of HikingMano's elbow relative to everything else that he is on target. An unsavoury fixation on Billy Goats Gruff clothing could probably blind one to that though as he transcends.

Yeah, the picture is a bit deceiving, because he is a sagger :)
 
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