Knife Clones - What is your beef (if any)?

their is a difference between knife clones, fakes, and those that seem to be "inspired from another design", but to me, they are all crap, regardless of quality. if sanrenmu can produce a good enough quality knife for seven dollars, why cant they do so on their own design? the days of getting good quality knives from china and overseas elsewhere for cheap arent new, neither is design ripoff, nothing about it can be called progress, competition.

people mention buck 110 clones all the time...is their a reputable company that actually produces a similar size clone? all the knockoffs ive ever seen were from pakistan or china. im actually curious on that.
 
Making a more affordable, licensed copy of a popular top shelf knife seems like a smart busyness tactic.
Making an unlicensed copyright breaching imitation of the same is just illegal.

Hmmm, first response to the the thread and right on target. I need read no further. This sums it up pretty well:thumbup:
 
my biggest gripe is the blurring of the average user's understanding of the difference between a $5 knife and a $1-200.

while i'm not personally disposed to buy high end knifes, a cheap imitation is often no more than a sharpened piece of metal impersonating a knife.

if a maker wants to emulate the style, but not out right identity of another maker, they do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
 
there will always be clones or imitations of better known quality products.
unlicensed knock-offs, bootleg copies right down to the duplication of trademarks and packaging is what that makes it an illegal trade.
it is viewed as cheating the unsuspecting buyer and original manufacturer.
similar looking products with minor design omissions or feature additions to distinguish it from an original simply means that other makers are capitalizing on the popularity or particular fad.
it may be an unethical commercial or trade practice but,
one has to understand that the fundamental way forward for human civilization is through the process of emulating novel ideas.
so bad as it sounds, "monkey see, monkey do" or imitation is the key component that somehow propels the overall growth of human civilization.
the world is not made equal to everyone; but viewed some other way,
bootleggers have created a means of access to those masses who otherwise could have never benefit from technological advancements.
quality is what that makes all the difference in life.
when given the choice everyone prefers the best; and that means having an original.
 
Out of all the blah, blah, blah, that you posted, this is the one thing that I had to read twice and then roll my eyes at. What improvements does the CRK lineup need? I'm really eager to hear this.

If CRK is losing sales to Sanrenmu, I can think of one huge area where they might compete better. Can you?

Of course, the whole point of trying to claim loss of sales was just an excuse in an attempt to shore up the argument against copying. CRK doesn't lose sales to Sanrenmu. They serve completely different ends of the spectrum.

By the way, competition isn't stealing someone else's design. Competition is coming up with a design that can be as good or better than the design that you want to compete with.

You cannot steal something if it doesn't actually belong to someone else in the first place. Competition is also coming up with a cheaper good.
 
a lot of the clones that i have seen side by side (like a SRM 710 and CRK 21) look similar but are very different...some groups of knife owners/collectors get worked up very easily by these clones and I dont see the hype, each of the originals have their niche and people buying from them. Just as these clone makers have as well.

I agree with shecky.
 
If somebody painted a picture, in impressionistic style, of a man on a dock by water against a red sky, with his hands to his face and mouth agape, and called it "The Shriek", nobody on the planet would argue that it's not a copy of Edvard Munch's "The Scream".

Copying somebody else's work and presenting it as your is wrong. It doesn't matter if it's a knife, a painting, a watch, a designer handbag, a microprocessor, test answers from the smart guy sitting next to you in class, etc. It's wrong. If your moral compass can't tell you that, then you're already heading in the wrong direction.

Certainly there will technologies that will eventually be copied. Somebody originally came up with the backlock, and now countless companies use it. Countless makers use Michael Walker's linerlock, which Chris Reeve adapted into his integral framelock, which countless makers also now use. Eventually the AXIS lock patent will run out and other companies will start using it.

That's not the same thing. We're talking about copying another knife's design and presenting it as your own. Whether it's a Sanmenru 710* that looks quite a bit like a Sebenza, or an MTech balisong that looks exactly like a Darrell Ralph design, it's still a copy. And that's wrong.

It doesn't matter if it's a "victimless crime". Granted, I will not argue that Sanmenru is taking money from CRK by offering a very similar looking product at a fraction of the cost. But that still doesn't make it not wrong. They're taking someone else's design and profiting from it. Without permission, without giving credit, without royalties. That's wrong. Some people will try to give justification to it, but that statement in itself shows that it's wrong. If it was "right", it wouldn't need justification.

You cannot steal something if it doesn't actually belong to someone else in the first place. Competition is also coming up with a cheaper good.
A design belongs to the designer. Copying a design is stealing from the designer. If you've ever had an original thought of your own, you might someday balk at somebody stealing it for their own use. But you've never shown any evidence that you're intelligent enough to come up with something of your own, so unfortunately that point is moot.




*I wonder why they chose to call it the 710. Pretty random number. Why not a 709 or a 711? It just "happens" to be a copy of an iconic folder with the same name of another iconic folder? Odd...
 
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Eventually the AXIS lock patent will run out and other companies will start using it.

A friend of mine has designed a few tattoo guns, of which are popular world wide now (with many Chinese companies making fakes) and a patent is all well and good...but its only as good as how much money you have protecting the patent, Chinese companies have a history of stealing patents by having more money then the patent owner quite often.
 
A friend of mine has designed a few tattoo guns, of which are popular world wide now (with many Chinese companies making fakes) and a patent is all well and good...but its only as good as how much money you have protecting the patent, Chinese companies have a history of stealing patents by having more money then the patent owner quite often.

So? What's your point?
 
So? What's your point?

why spend your entire day (and all your money) defending a patent when you could be making knives and still turning the good profit, people soon realize which is the inferior product and if they don't they were not who your product targeted.

I'd rather have say $30,000 in pocket then spend $30,000 defending a piece of paper.
 
I still don't get your point. Does the fact that they'd win a legal battle because they've got more money or they're in a country that won't cooperate with international laws make it right for them to copy stuff? Do you see a self-employed knifemaker (such as Gustavo T. Cecchini) or even a full-sized company as giving the copycats "permission" to steal their designs simply because they cannot afford to or choose not to seek legal action against them?

I know they can't be stopped. I know knockoffs are and always will be produced. If something is valuable or desirable, there will always be cheap copies of it. It's a fact of life.

But that still doesn't make it right.
 
people mention buck 110 clones all the time...is their a reputable company that actually produces a similar size clone? all the knockoffs ive ever seen were from pakistan or china. im actually curious on that.

I don't know where it's made now, or if you can still buy the LB7. But, I remember we had one like this that was made in the USA and it was bought back in the 80's. There isn't any difference in size or design, from the Buck 110. (my Dad gave it away to a friend that never had a decent knife to gut deer)

lb7S.jpg
 
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I still don't get your point. Does the fact that they'd win a legal battle because they've got more money or they're in a country that won't cooperate with international laws make it right for them to copy stuff? Do you see a self-employed knifemaker (such as Gustavo T. Cecchini) or even a full-sized company as giving the copycats "permission" to steal their designs simply because they cannot afford to or choose not to seek legal action against them?

I know they can't be stopped. I know knockoffs are and always will be produced. If something is valuable or desirable, there will always be cheap copies of it. It's a fact of life.

But that still doesn't make it right.

I wouldn't give it a second thought, I'd focus on my own business and getting my sales from the niche who is already making purchases and recommending to others...I work in an industry where you get a lot of imitation components from china (car components), and I just focus on my product rather then their inferior goods. Informed customers will put their money where it counts, chances are the demographic of the people buying the fakes cannot and likely will not pay what you are asking for your goods.

such is industry.
 
To me it just sucks when people can't come up with their own ideas. It's just stupid boring. It just shows that you either have a lack of imagination or are too much of a coward to experiment.
 
To me it just sucks when people can't come up with their own ideas. It's just stupid boring. It just shows that you either have a lack of imagination or are too much of a coward to experiment.

Do you buy any generic goods? Or does this thought only apply to knives?
 
y'ever seen them spinner hubcaps? not the spinner rims, the HUBCAPS. well, that's how i feel about knockoffs.

i couldn't care less about the working conditions/labor laws in Jakcrapistan. nor could i care less about some million dollar company getting their precious little patent stolen. but i do care about whether i feel like a pimp or a putz and knockoff's tend to generate the second scenario :D
 
or an MTech balisong that looks exactly like a Darrell Ralph design, it's still a copy. And that's wrong.

Good points from everyone.

In the case of the Twist Darrel Ralph gets royalties from the design and
they have his permission to use the design.

If this is the case does it still bother you (planterz, as well as all forum
members)?

I can't lie. I'll buy a clone here and there just for fun and to beat on it,
though I always prefer the real thing. This is really limited to balisongs though.
Though funny enough all the ones I own are legitimately produced.
I can't really see myself doing it for a regular knife. Well, that Sanmenru 710
does look pretty tempting...

I do get a little bothered by the knock off just cause usually they are
done so poorly and it's just a turn off
 
when I am selling at the orlando fl gun show I ask the customers what are you looking for. I have good, cheap and junk for sale.
 
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