Knife in a gun fight.

[razorsdescent]

Im a Libertarian for the most part, And this kinda stuff does my heart good. Dont group all liberals together.


Politics aside. I think that he couldnt really have done much of a better job. My only regret is that only one of them was killed, it should have been more.

 

[mnblade]

It's amazing how much conflict has occurred in a thread where, as far as I can tell, everyone here AGREES! Everyone here, even a tree-hugging pinko liberal type like me, agrees that: A) this ex-Marine guy has balls of stone B) that he did the right thing C) that the gene pool is better off without those BGs and so forth.

Meanwhile, I did follow those links out to some of the local news stories and video clips. I love how everyone latched on to that chick being "two weeks pregnant." As a father of two young kids (meaning: I've been through this pregnancy/birthing thing a lot lately ) trust me on this: It would be very very rare for a woman who is "two weeks pregant" to even know she's pregant yet. Just laughable how the media today (Fox News as much or more than anyone) really adhere to the the "if the legend is better than the story, print the legend" edict. No wonder I'm not longer in that racket. :jerkit:

Edited to add: After reading the post above mine, I second what razorsdescent said about not grouping all liberals together.

 

[mnblade]

CNN did a pretty reasonable bit which they link to here.

 

[Gryffin]

It's amazing how much conflict has occurred in a thread where, as far as I can tell, everyone here AGREES!

Good point!!! Enough with the accusations of liberal/racist/whatever, already. Sheesh.

If you want to really get your dander up about something worthy, ponder this: our brave Marine will probably spend the next year or two defending himself from a civil "wrongful death" suit by the deceased female scumbag's family, and likely lose his house, car, and life savings whether he wins or loses.

 

[meshmdz]

Good point!!! Enough with the accusations of liberal/racist/whatever, already. Sheesh.

If you want to really get your dander up about something worthy, ponder this: our brave Marine will probably spend the next year or two defending himself from a civil "wrongful death" suit by the deceased female scumbag's family, and likely lose his house, car, and life savings whether he wins or loses.

very good point. its very saddening to learn this too... you are right. even though he was not charged as a criminal, he will be hounded civilly by the dirtbags family...

 

[kel_aa]

I think it is a tragedy of the human condition. The fact is that someone ended up dying for the money in a wallet. It might as well been another story we are reading: the Marine resists and counteracts, and the muggers get a shot off and kill him. What then? Do we call him stupid for dying for to protect his wallet? I am not critizing Mr Autrey. If he did not resist, he might still end up beat up, maimed, kidnapped, or dead.

PS: I am not taking any "moral equivilance" stance. Just a remark.

 

[razorsdescent]

Yeah that is complete BS. Think they should sue the parents for doing such a shit poor job on raisiing those kids. He deserves a medal not a lwasuit.

 

[Rat-30]

I think it is a tragedy of the human condition. The fact is that someone ended up dying for the money in a wallet. .It might as well been another story we are reading: the Marine resists and counteracts, and the muggers get a shot off and kill him. What then? Do we call him stupid for dying for to protect his wallet? I am not critizing Mr Autrey. If he did not resist, he might still end up beat up, maimed, kidnapped, or dead.

PS: I am not taking any "moral equivilance" stance. Just a remark.

Hello, Kel -

I agree with your point that this is the tragedy of the human condition - but I view it another way...

There is evil in this world.

The criminal died for money in a wallet, this time. Not the target.

If the Marine resists and counteracts, and the muggers get a shot off and kill him - I would not call him stupid - I would refer to him as righteous.

It is his right to defend himself from evil, some, including me, would say it's his Duty.

The situation dictates the response, and I think Marine Autry responded well enough.

I hope Georgia law protects him civily, and that a jury of his peers finds no basis for the frivolous lawsuits that may await him in the future. May he find Peace.

Best regards,

John

 

[Cougar Allen]

...our brave Marine will probably spend the next year or two defending himself from a civil "wrongful death" suit by the deceased female scumbag's family, and likely lose his house, car, and life savings whether he wins or loses.

Some people will believe anything if they read it in the gun magazines and on the net often enough.... Here's a clue for anyone who believes that: go to the nearest lawyer's office and tell him you want to sue a waiter for everything he owns, and you want him to take the case on commission.

 

[kel_aa]

Hello John-

I see it as a tougher call than that. It is horrible to threaten the safety of someone [as the muggers did, especially a pregnant woman?]. But I fault the society that allows this to happen as well. That makes people this desperate/crazyed for thrill/mentally dead or whatever reason. Didn't we fail to prevent them and fail the people they harmed/potentially harmed?

For the sake of discussion, if you had a crystal ball and could see two futures: one where you gave up whatever you had on you (watch, camera, cell phone, wallet...) and both walked away (of course you have to cancel credit cards, get new drivers license, social security card, bus transfer...) and another where you resist and end up killing the mugger, which would you choose? Of course we actually do the things we do without knowing the outcome. But I can say that there is nothing that fits in my pockets or hangs around my neck that is worth a human life, as low as it may sink to.

Kelvin (thanks for bringing it to a personal level)

 

[meshmdz]

Yeah that is complete BS. Think they should sue the parents for doing such a shit poor job on raisiing those kids. He deserves a medal not a lwasuit.

if i were God, i would have these parents' asses canned.. but thats me and i am "racist" :jerkit: JUST KIDDING!!!! i wont say anything else about it. i swear. interesting thought though kel_aa... you think analytically often dont you sir?:thumbup:

 

[Rat-30]

Hello John-

I see it as a tougher call than that. It is horrible to threaten the safety of someone [as the muggers did, especially a pregnant woman?]. But I fault the society that allows this to happen as well. That makes people this desperate/crazyed for thrill/mentally dead or whatever reason. Didn't we fail to prevent them and fail the people they harmed/potentially harmed?

For the sake of discussion, if you had a crystal ball and could see two futures: one where you gave up whatever you had on you (snip...) and both walked away (Snip)and another where you resist and end up killing the mugger, which would you choose? Of course we actually do the things we do without knowing the outcome. But I can say that there is nothing that fits in my pockets or hangs around my neck that is worth a human life, as low as it may sink to.

Kelvin (thanks for bringing it to a personal level)

Howdy, Kelvin -

I appreciate your position.

I am a very spiritual person, myself. I believe that we are all experiencing this life together. I also believe that there are people in the world who do not believe as I do. And I am reminded of that daily, and I accept that - it keeps me centered. I believe that I am responsible for my actions. And that I am responsible for helping others as I and my beliefs allow.

And I believe that I am not responsible for the decisions others make in their path through life - no more than I hold another responsible for my decisions. I offer guidance if asked, support if needed, but I am not their external conscience.

I will offer that 'Society' implies civilized coexistance for a common good. With society comes understood and implied social behavior and norms. When someone violates these acceptable behaviors, they are acting in an anti-social and / or uncivilized manner. Whether that is a concious or subconsious decision on the anti-social's part, I did not make that decision for them. Perhaps I could/can influence that decision, however, ultimately, I cannot make that decision for them. I am human as well.

I disagree that society causes people to mentally ill. That we'll have to reserve for another conversation.

I'll sum up by saying that I want to be altruistic and for everyone to get along. Unfortunately, before I got here on Earth, somebody tossed an apple in the punchbowl, and things haven't been the same since...

PS - The deceased attacker was not pregnant, the autopsy showed... perhaps a publicity stunt, or simple mistake on the poor family's part.

PPS - I carry few things in my pocket worth a human life. There are people that travel with me at times, however, that my life is worth. So, I guess the short answer is 'Yes' - it is a tough decision, truly one that I don't get to make on my own... But a decision that I prepare for just the same.

Respectfully,

John

 

[kel_aa]

I disagree that society causes people to mentally ill. That we'll have to reserve for another conversation.

Just to clarify, I said "mentally dead." If they are mentally ill, then they are mentally ill. They should be confined or be taken care of by their family. But it is highly unlikely that five mentally ill people banded together. What I meant by mentally dead is lacking humanity. On a side note, one of the things that really bother me is when people yell crude/racist (I'll lump in sexist too, but I don't see much of that) things at strangers just to look cool in front of their friends. And this happens with suburban middle school kids...

It has been a good conversation.

Kelvin

 

[Rat-30]

Just to clarify, I said "mentally dead." If they are mentally ill, then they are mentally ill. They should be confined to be taken care of by their family. But it is highly unlikely that five mentally ill people banded together. What I meant by mentally dead is lacking humanity. On a side note, one of the things that really bother me is when people yell crude/racist (I'll lump in sexist too, but I don't see much of that) things at strangers just to look cool in front of their friends. And this happens with suburban middle school kids...

Howdy Kelvin -

Thanks for the clarification - and I like your definition -
Mentally dead = lacking humanity

I like that. I'll give you credit the first three times I use it, then it's mine!

suburban kids same here... lack of respect for each other. I do my best to teach mine respect, and practice it the best I can.

Best regards,
John

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Key word here is "SURVIVOR" -- a person who will fight to defend himself, instead of whining that the police are there to do that and we should all just sit there and dial a phone when the crap hits the fan -- or worse, "Give them what they want and hope they leave you alone." :jerkit:

Good on this dude. I'm glad he did what he did, and I'm glad he's more or less unscathed.

More people need to follow his example. Let's make criminals extinct by either killing them of or making their vocation far too dangerous to even bother attempting.

-Jeffrey

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

very good point. its very saddening to learn this too... you are right. even though he was not charged as a criminal, he will be hounded civilly by the dirtbags family...

Does Georgia yet have a "Stand-Your-Ground" law like Florida and a growing number of states?

In Florida at least, if you defend yourself with lethal force and it is deemed legal and justified, you are protected from civil action.

Anyway, I think "being attacked" is truly grounds for summary judgment against any plaintiff who would sue the victim of the attack who successfully defended himself, with all court costs and attorneys' fees to be paid by the plaintiff. This girl who attacked him, she made her choice, and her family should have the grace and nobility to recognize that this man is not the true cause of her death, and the circumstances of her being killed were not criminal (in the sense that the man who killed her was defending himself from her unlawful attack). They should demur from any attempt to sue, and every legal entity should emphatically discourage them from even considering doing so.


-Jeffrey

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

But I fault the society that allows this to happen as well. That makes people this desperate/crazyed for thrill/mentally dead or whatever reason. Didn't we fail to prevent them and fail the people they harmed/potentially harmed?

Hogwash, in my view. No one is owed a living, owed entertainment, owed the good life by "society." I personally never bore responsibility for making sure these no-goods were kept entertained and paid, so no, neither I nor society in general (wayyy to ambiguous a thing to even try to quantify) are responsible for "creating" such monsters.

For the sake of discussion, if you had a crystal ball and could see two futures: one where you gave up whatever you had on you (watch, camera, cell phone, wallet...) and both walked away (of course you have to cancel credit cards, get new drivers license, social security card, bus transfer...) and another where you resist and end up killing the mugger, which would you choose?

I'd choose to kill the scumbag criminal. Why? Because I do NOT share the view that all human life, no matter how a given life has debased itself through wanton criminal enterprise, is equal in value. A good, kind, loving, friendly, charitable person is worth ten thousand (or more) scumbag greedy vicious criminals, even IF we could save the lives of those criminals simply by giving up the money in our wallets when they confront us, threaten us, and demand it of us.

There is NOTHING POSITIVE GAINED BY LETTING SUCH A PERSON LIVE. Really, what good is it to let live the kind of person who would threaten harm to another in order to obtain illegitimately what material goods that other possesses? He lives to rob another day -- and to possible push the limit too far and hurt or kill the next victim. And I let him go, appeasing him with my wallet's contents, just because I have some b.s. compunction about snuffing out his worthless life? Hardly. I'd kill him if it were necessary to end the threat he poses to me and I would have no regret.

Of course we actually do the things we do without knowing the outcome. But I can say that there is nothing that fits in my pockets or hangs around my neck that is worth a human life, as low as it may sink to.

You will never know whether all he plans to take are the things in your pockets and around your neck, will you. Not at the time he's robbing you, anyway. And I think you should answer the question, "What overall good is served by NOT taking this miscreant out of society if it is something you are capable of doing?" Please tell us WHY it's such a pity and a shame to kill this kind of violent criminal. I myself can think of no reason.


-Jeffrey

 

[Andrew Taylor]

There is another interview with Mr Autry here. He is black himself BTW and sounds like a really nice guy with a family.

http://www.11alive.com/video/player.aspx?aid=53497&sid=80494&bw=&cid=3

I thought I just heard in this interview he had a boxcutter in his pocket. He ran first and then realised he was going to have to fight. He only had $8 in his pocket. The 5 attackers were armed with a handgun, a shotgun and brass knuckles. Similar robberies had ocurred recently. In a twist of fate, Autry's partner's daughter knew the attackers from school.

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

I think it is a tragedy of the human condition. The fact is that someone ended up dying for the money in a wallet. It might as well been another story we are reading: the Marine resists and counteracts, and the muggers get a shot off and kill him. What then? Do we call him stupid for dying for to protect his wallet? I am not critizing Mr Autrey. If he did not resist, he might still end up beat up, maimed, kidnapped, or dead.

PS: I am not taking any "moral equivilance" stance. Just a remark.

Now if ANYTHING said in this thread qualifies for the epithet "liberal bulls***," it's "someone ended up dying for the money in a wallet."

This scumbag bitch died because she presented a credible lethal threat to an innocent victim, and the victim was not willing to gamble his life on the idea that all she (along with three other armed people) was going to do was take his material wealth and leave him unscathed.

You sound RIDICULOUS when you try to make it seem that this guy weighed her life against his wallet's contents and said, "I value a few bucks over the life of a human woman." He was faced with DEATH at the hands of four criminals, are you crazy?!

When someone threatens you, unless you are a pussy, you fight back! Over here in Florida just last week a poor guy working in a convenience store was shot and killed by a robber after he had given him the cash register contents with no resistance. The shooting was witnessed by a customer hiding in the store, and that person said the clerk had not resisted.

That's what your absurd compassion will get you.

In case you can't tell, I wouldn't give a rat's diseased turd for the life of a person like this girl or her cohorts. I wish all four had been killed, not just her. Humanity simply does not need them. What we need is people who can coexist peacefully with their fellows. Every person who can't do that, who dies, brings us a step closer to a peaceful world.


-Jeffrey

 

[kel_aa]

If he did not resist, he might still end up beat up, maimed, kidnapped, or dead.

I said that was a possibility in my first post.

I don't think having a gun is the same as being a violent. A gun (as any object) is the threat of force, not force itself.

The rest is is simply my personal view.

I do however sympatheize with Mr Autrey in the aftermath. I hope his character and love of life grows and is not burdened too much by the event.