Knife Maker gives customer list to police.

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AR15fan

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http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=3928

Channel2000.com - Internet Knife Purchases Led To Zantop Suspects

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Internet Knife Purchases Led To Zantop Suspects
Teens Allegedly Purchased Commando-Style Knives Before Murders
BOSTON, 10:29 a.m. EST February 19, 2001 -- The purchase of two,
commando-style knives over the Internet was what led investigators
to two teenage suspects in the brutal killings of popular Dartmouth
professors Half and Susanne Zantop.
According to WCVB-TV in Boston, investigators reportedly focused on
Robert Tulloch, 17, and James Parker, 16, because the teens
allegedly bought two unique, special forces commando-style knives
over the Internet, according to Vermont County Sheriff Dennis
McClure. The knives cost about $300.
Investigators checked with the manufacturers, who gave them a list
of customers who had recently purchased the knives and allegedly
Tulloch and Parker's names were on the list.


[This message has been edited by AR15fan (edited 02-19-2001).]
 
He may have been made "an offer he could not refuse".

Actually under those circumstances, I do not have a problem with it at all other than the fact that there might be law abiding owners that could catch grief.

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" The real art of living is to keep alive the longing in human beings to become greater versions of themselves." Laurens Van der Post in memory of James Mattis

[This message has been edited by Gus Kalanzis (edited 02-19-2001).]
 
The article doesnt say anything about a court order. It sounds like he gave up his customers at a simple request.
 
Something else was going on. All of us who buy knives over the internet don't get asked about local murders.
 
Yeah. If I were a knifemaker, asked about who purchased one of my knives that had been involved in a killing, I'd have held onto some "principle" and told the authorities to stuff it when asked if any had been sold in the immediate vicinity.
rolleyes.gif
On top of that, MA has particular laws about the types of weapons and implements that can be sold there. I'm sure that they could have made life quite difficult, had they wanted to. I'm glad he cooperated. This is going to make life more hostile for internet knife sales as it is.

Just like guns, explosives, paint, or even nuts and bolts, the more expensive and exclusive the products you carry and use are, the easier it is to track them back to you.
 
My concern is for the other peaple who have bought the same knife but never commited a crime. Their names are on the list the maker gave up too.

This is not a local knife shop or knife maker. This is a recognizable big name knife maker. Someone unique enought, and well known to the point the coroner was able to look at the wounds and conclude they were made by this one specific knife. Then the cops knew who makes/sells this knife and contacted him.

Who is well known,and makes LARGE fixed blade knives that a local small county coroner would recognize?
 
Well.......when I find out who the manufacturer is I will try NOT to buy anything from him/her.

Maybe he was pressured (probable), maybe police blackmailed him with threats (highly probable), maybe he knew details he should not have.(his fault not ours)

I just think our privacy and freedoms are going down the toilet. This was one small flush for this manufacturer but one giant flush for big-brother mankind.

One could safely say, the majority of knife owners/buyer are not criminals.

Trample on the rights of many to get to 2 bad apples....a steep and slippery slope I say.

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Baddogdave says "Life is
hard,so carry a good knife"
 
I'm a little suspicious of this story for a couple of reasons:

"the teens allegedly bought two unique, special forces commando-style knives
over the Internet, according to Vermont County Sheriff Dennis McClure. The knives cost about $300. Investigators checked with the manufacturers, who gave them a list
of customers who had recently purchased the knives and allegedly Tulloch and Parker's names were on the list."

The last time I checked, unique meant one of a kind. Also, notice how it says "manufacturers gave them a list". That would mean at least 2 manufacturers together gave one list. This story is so poorly written that I suspect the reporter did not get the facts straight.

Oh, and what is a "special forces commando style knife"? Is that anything like an "assault rifle"? Methinks someone has an agenda.
 
I just don't see the release of that information as a bad thing. It's really no different than the police contacting a shoe seller if they found a unique shoe imprint near a crime scene, that's just part of a good investigation. Sure they might have had to bother some people who bought the same knife that had done nothing wrong but that seems ok to me. If it was me or any other member of my family that had been murdered I'd like the police to do whatever they could to catch whoever did it.
 
I don't have any objection to a manufacturer in this situation giving out such information.

If I'm a manufacturer (guns, knives, horseshoes, whatever)and the police come to me with reasonable proof that I could provide information to help catch a couple of murderers, you're darn right I'll give them that information. It may tick off a few privacy advocates but, in my book, murder supercedes privacy.

If I'm a customer, I have no problem with them giving out my information. I'm a law-abiding citizen purchasing legal products. Let 'em look me over -- I've got nothing to hide.

As far as an "agenda" goes, it just seems to me that the reporter (no knife knut, obviously) is just using descriptive terminology that the average lay person is going to understand. Yeah, those of us who read about knives, study knives, dream about knives and drool over knives know this isn't the proper description. But put those words in front of my wife and she immediately knows the guy's not talking about a whittler.

Okay, end of sermon.

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"I can't believe you stabbed me with this cheap piece of mail-order sh*t"
James Caan in 'Eraser'
 
I am not upset at all that the names were given. The police could have gotten the same info through a court order but that takes a little more time and paperwork. And it gives the average non knifeknut person the impression that the manufacturers have something to hide.

Rich
 
OK i give up !
i´m guilty !
off buying knives! Often!
So what?
I give the OK to every maker (sadly none) or seller (more than one), to tell the police what, when and how much i bought, if this will help to brighten / clarify ANY crime!
Thats it!

WE are not the criminals!!

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*so is life : hard but unfair - BE PREPARED*

[This message has been edited by bigbore.45 (edited 02-19-2001).]
 
Hope I didn't come off as too nuts of a knife knut in my previous post. I have no problem with providing information to law enforcement. My objection is to biased reporting.

I just got done watching the reporting of this story by the three network news shows (ABC, CBS, NBC). They just said that one of the boys got a "military style knife" on the Internet. That's all they said about the knife (no paranoia or bias that I could see). Compare that to what is quoted in the original post. I think the reporter was misinformed and biased (just my opinion).

The last thing I think any of us would want to see is a knife being used to commit a crime, especially murder!
 
I'm just seeing this as a police detective following viable leads. If it helped catch these suspects, great. Law Enforcement have samples of bullets & shells that show which make is most likely to have been used. Same with paint samples from vehicles. Shoe prints, tire tread, etc. Certainly experienced pathologists who may be knife afficionados would begin compiling and keeping wound info caused by sharp objects. Chances are MOST of us on the Forum could give fairly good conclusions in the morgue as regards knife wounds.
As was said, we are NOT the criminals and may be (not saying WE ARE, just that it may be) being paranoid that our names and purchasing habits are now in the hand of Big Brother.
Someone sometime ago started some dumbass thread about "Best Tactics to Use Against an LEO" here. He was quickly and justly closed down, not just by Mr Turber & Spark but by the forumites ourselves.
The police are not the enemy. Nor was/were the "manufacturer(s)" not named. The enemy are the scum who murdered professors Half and Susanne Zantop.

Again NOT flaming.
John
colobbfan


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A day without Spydies is like a day without ... WELL, Spydies!!!
 
I'm not sure I believe that the reporting in this incident is all that factual, call me a sceptic, but I want to know how these two idiots cpould afford two good knives and also know what two good knives were. I'm also suspicious when the media use terms like"commando" etc. It may be true, but I'll reserve my right to suspect otherwise.

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Buck Collectors Club Member # 572
Dedicated ELU
Knifeknut(just ask my wife)
 
Tough position to be in.

I'm a pretty conservative person. That conservative philosophy would urge me to respect the right-to-privacy of those who favored my company with their purchase.

I'm also a moral person. Morally, how do you justify withholding information that would, or even might, lead to the capture of a killer or killers?

Philosophy vs. morals.

I think I'd give up the list.
 
These nitwits could have even left the knives, boxes at the crime scene, but took their receipt with them.
John

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A day without Spydies is like a day without ... WELL, Spydies!!!
 
Hmm... weird. The reporting in this story is terrible. I'm going to search around for another version of the story that's hopefully a bit more coherent.

I find it hard to believe that a teenage punk would own a $300 knife, not to mention use it for a murder. Plus, when was the last time you saw a $300 "commando" knife? I associate that style with dirt cheap '80s knives. It sounds very unusual to say the least.

The story doesn't even mention how they knew what kind of knife was involved. However, there's no way in Hades that a coroner can look at a wound and tell you specifically what knife made it. In fact, they frequently can't even give you a general idea of what the knife looked like. For instance: they usually can't tell if the knife that made the wound was serrated or not and they can't even conclude what the blade length is. About all they can figure out from looking at the wound is the width of the blade, and sometimes they can tell if the blade is double edged.


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Cerulean

"My good reason to carry a knife is that God gave me rather weak teeth and rudimentary claws in an evolutionary trade-off." - J.K.M.
 
Exactly, good point(no pun intended)Cerulean

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Buck Collectors Club Member # 572
Dedicated ELU
Knifeknut(just ask my wife)
 
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