Knife Maker gives customer list to police.

I'm not a coroner nor forensics expert but do a lot of reading of crime stuff.Thomas Naguchi, John Douglas, etc. I believe they take a wax/parrafin impression of the wound and can get a good impression in SOME instances of a blade shape and size.
Again not arguing just sharing. Again, my bet is they left the knives there at the scene.
Also the punks at Columbine HS had fairly expensive stuff. Dad's credit card or large allowance, etc. Stolen CC, who knows.
John
 
IMO the manufacturer did the right thing. If the police need this information to catch murderers then they sould get it. Besides that, if the police get a court order, the manufacturer would have to give the list to them anyway.
I do not care if my name was on this list, I have done nothing wrong. I do not think that any law abiding person should think this was a bad thing.

Keith.
 
"If a stabbing victim has been stabbed multiple times, and assuming only one knife (or multiple knives with similar dimensions and characteristics) was used to inflict all of the wounds, it may be possible to arrive at an approximation of the length, width, thickness, and configuration (single vs. double-edged) of the weapon. A patterned skin abrasion or contusion may be produced by the guard of the knife contacting the skin if the weapon is driven into the body with great force." DiMaio and Dana, Handbook of Forensic Pathology, Landes Bioscience, 1998.
 
About a year ago here we had a person shoot a rural county Sheriff's Deputy as he was checking the welfare of a couple. the deputy was shot as he knocked on the door of the home and announced himself. The deputy was shot at least three times. ( Fortunatly for the deputy he was wearing his vest and was shot in the vest and the bad guy was using bird shot in the 12 gauge )
Well to make a long story short I am a FFL holder and i received a call from the Kansas CIty area ATF . I was aware of the situation. ( I am also an LEO) and they asked me if I had sold any firearms or ammunition to the subject who had shot the deputy and then had barricaded himself in the house ( I had not) Well I know I had done the right thing because law enforcement wanted to know what they may be up against. It turned out the shooter had also killed his parents who the deputy was checking on and then later set the hosue on fire and did himself in. I view this as a similar type situation . the cops are looking for two guys who have committed a very violent crime and want them off the streets. I do not see anything wrong with what the dealer/maker did

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I used to be disgusted .Now I am just amused....I feel much better now that I have given up all hope
 
I don't think the manufacturer should have given the police any info without a court order. The court order is one of our greatest protections against violations of the 5th amendment (unreasonable search and seizure). This law prevents police from becoming too powerful like the police of some other countries (like China). If the police had a need for the list then they should have taken their case before a Judge and obtained a warrant or court order. The judge is supposed to determine if the police really have a need to know. Also, the case might get thrown out of court if evidence was obtained in an improper manner.
The violation of privacy leads down a dark road (read Orwell's book 1984). We already have cameras popping up all over to monitor citizens. What's next, a federal registry of our DNA, a camera in our home, and a tracking device on our cars?
Remember, the Constitutional rights of US citizens should never be trampled, even to catch a killer.
 
Looks like the two suspects got caught. www.msnbc.com/news/532237.asp The latest AP story just says,
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"Orange County, Vt., Sheriff Dennis McClure said the boys became suspects in the Dartmouth case after authorities learned one had bought a military-style knife via the Internet."</font>
Click to expand...
Maybe there will be more info at a later date.



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Cerulean

"My good reason to carry a knife is that God gave me rather weak teeth and rudimentary claws in an evolutionary trade-off." - J.K.M.
 
Ahh... at least one mystery solved!
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Sources said the suspects had left the knife's sheath and other items at the bloody crime scene inside the Zantops' rural home and one of the suspects' fingerprints was matched to a print found on the sheath.</font>
Click to expand...
www.bostonherald.com/news/local_regional/dart02202001.htm

Geez. It's impossible to identify the specific knife model from the wounds it causes. However, it's relatively easy to tell the knife from the sheath it leaves behind!
rolleyes.gif
Another stupid criminal story.

I'm surprised no one here guessed that might be the case, although John came pretty close by speculating that they may have left the box the knife came in behind. I personally thought that the cops must have had the murder weapon the whole time and were just lying to the press to trick the suspects, but it seems I was wrong.

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Cerulean

"My good reason to carry a knife is that God gave me rather weak teeth and rudimentary claws in an evolutionary trade-off." - J.K.M.

[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 02-20-2001).]
 
It would be a difficult decision to make, so the good people from the justice dept. in some of Australia's southern states have decided to make it law that knifemakers keep records of the sale of certain knives, and have them available to police at any given time. It is alright up here in the north though,the Northern Territoy doesn't even have speeding laws yet.

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Steve Filicietti
Custom Knives
AUSTRALIA
http://www.unitedbladeworx.com.au
 
It's fairly standard detective work, I think, to try to trace back any item left at the crime scene, attempting to narrow down the list of potential suspects; I don't really have a problem with that (as others have mentioned, they'd do the same with a shoe or whatever).

I think the big question is what is done with the rest of the data afterwards: if they just stick the list in a file drawer and ignore it unless and until they have similar hard evidence of another crime being committed with the same model of knife, that's fine, too. The concern would be if someone in the police department (or mayor's office, or a local reporter, or "concerned citizen's" group) gets the "bright idea" that they should start investigating everyone else on the list, figuring that the rest of them must be a bunch of shady characters too (leading us back into the whole push of "people don't do bad things, inanimate objects do"
frown.gif
).

After all, "everyone" knows that only a bad, dangerous, person would own a "commando" knife, or an expensive knife, or a pocket knife, or ... a kitchen knife, or a screwdriver, or a stick, or a blunt object of any kind, or a car, or ...

The average Joe Sixpack, with a long history of getting their information misquoted to them from the average TV reporter, won't think along our lines of "what a terribly dreadful use of such a nice knife"; instead they'll be "terrified and angered to learn that evil companies are making vicious weapons of mass destruction specifically tailored to the needs of felons" ("and we alerted you to this danger first, Film At 11").

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Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921 /\/\/\ San Diego, California

Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
 
Bummer! That's exactly the kind of article I didn't want to see. I wonder if there will be talk about closing the "internet knife dealer loophole" now.

Thanks for the heads-up though, Brad.

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Cerulean

"My good reason to carry a knife is that God gave me rather weak teeth and rudimentary claws in an evolutionary trade-off." - J.K.M.

[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 02-20-2001).]
 
Just a couple of points to make.

allenC, reread the 5th Amendment. Then read the 4th Amendment.

If they had fingerprints of one of the suspects, did they need ALL the records from the internet dealer? I am all for catching the BG, but I would have asked for a warrant on 'general principles'.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kaos:
Just a couple of points to make.

allenC, reread the 5th Amendment. Then read the 4th Amendment.

</font>
Click to expand...

Don't forget the 2nd. Knives are constitutionaly protected arms too. A Manufacturer giving up his customer list is de facto registration.
 
matched a fingerprint?

apparently one of them had his fingerprints in the system.

{edited to add the following info} newspaper story says the teens were (voluntarily) fingerprinted last Thursday when they were questioned about the crime. No mention of why they were being questioned.

[This message has been edited by amalgam (edited 02-20-2001).]
 
No speculation, just the facts. 5 years ago the New Jersey state police contacted me. They asked specifically if I had sold an axe to a specific person. This axe had been used in a homicicide case. I told them that in fact I had sold this person such an axe. I was asked for no list of sales, I was not pressured in any fashion. I did admit to selling this individual the axe. End of story. If you feel free to use a tool I sell to you for a crime, I feel free to turn you in!

Ted Frizzell
Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works
 
Thanks Mr. Frizzell!
Twas the only right thing to do.
Who we should be mad at are the criminals!
Luckily most are stupid.
Cerulean thanks for the credit, but, I hadn't even thought of a sheath! duh!
John Row
colobbfan

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A day without Spydies is like a day without ... WELL, Spydies!!!
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ted Frizzell:
No speculation, just the facts. 5 years ago the New Jersey state police contacted me. They asked specifically if I had sold an axe to a specific person. This axe had been used in a homicicide case. I told them that in fact I had sold this person such an axe. I was asked for no list of sales, I was not pressured in any fashion. I did admit to selling this individual the axe. End of story. If you feel free to use a tool I sell to you for a crime, I feel free to turn you in!

Ted Frizzell
Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works</font>
Click to expand...


cool. so the police asked you about a customer purchase, and you rolled over? was the customer automatically a violent criminal just because the police *asked* a specific question? automatically guilty? is that all it takes for you to cough up the info?

no pressure. no problem. here's the info.

 
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