Knife Show Question

[Trent Rock]

If the knives are priced HIGH ENOUGH there will always be knives on the table.. Just thinking.
A customer might be willing to pay a premium to get a better selection, not just the only thing that is left after the stampede. So where's the happy medium? If maker knows he'll probably sell out quickly, doesnt this affect his thoughts on prices, to some degree? (or no)

On the lottery how common are "shill" buyers recruited? Standard operation with large volume dealers?

If a knife maker sells out before the show starts
He is pricing his knives too low
So why doesn't he raise his prices?
If he has 10 potential buyers at $1,000
He will have 8 potential buyers at $1,250
6 buyers at $1,500
(Or something along those lines)
Etc.

Seems simple to me.......
Why not raise the prices until there are only, say 1 or 2 buyers willing to pay the raised price?
I guess what I'm saying is, when demand exceeds supply
You raise prices...right?

You guys actually answered a question I had on regional knife buying preferences :thumbup:
Is a guy in rural Montana more likely to buy a forged bowie than a tactical folder?
Vice versa for the guy who lives in urban New York (or Chicago)

I don't see how too many shows hurts the knife consumer
More choices the better I always say

In classical economic theory it is a basic principle that expanding the choice set cannot make a consumer worse off (Benartzi & Thaler, 2001). From this perspective, the only reason why the full demand for variety on the side of the consumers will commonly not be supplied is because producers have to balance variety against the lower unit production costs of fewer variants (Lancaster, 1990). If production costs are the only factor that limits assortment size, the amount of variety should increase if production costs decrease. According to Anderson (2006), this is exactly what happens. As an example, he points to the fact that the number of options to choose from is commonly much higher on the Internet because there, the costs to produce and stock a variety of goods that appeal to consumers is commonly much lower than in regular stores.

n his 2004 book The Paradox of Choice, Barry Schwartz wrote: “As the number of choices grows further, the negatives escalate until we become overloaded. At this point, choice no longer liberates, but debilitates. It might even be said to tyrannize” (p. 2). On the other hand, Anderson (2006) as well as Postrel (2005) cherish the overabundance of choice as a liberating force that enables individuality and pluralism and that leads to more efficient markets. Also, the research on adaptive decision making provides strong evidence that people have a wide repertoire of choice strategies that they can employ depending on the situation. From this perspective, having many options to choose from does not automatically lead to choice overload. After all, people adapt to choice; they satisfice and they deliberately limit their choices all the time, for instance, by applying a filter, consulting an expert, or reading Consumer Reports. As noted by Schwartz (2004): “A small-town resident who visits Manhattan in overwhelmed by all that is going on. A New Yorker, thoroughly adapted to the city’s hyperstimulation, is oblivious to it.” This latter perspective on choice overload is in line with my empirical findings showing that the effect of too much choice is much less robust than previously thought.

The guy who wants a tactical folder will go to the Chicago show before a show where they sell mostly forged, bowie type , "traditional" knives
Give him the choice of attending a knife that caters to his personal preferences.....

@Tenn Knife Man==============>
The power of touch: An examination of the effect of duration of physical contact on the valuation of objects

"Even if you don't touch the item," says Rangel, "the fact that it is physically present seems to be enough. This Pavlovian response is more likely to be deployed when making contact with the stimulus is a possibility."

What does all this mean in the real world? At the very least, it suggests that your local bookstore—where you can reach out and ruffle a paperback's pages—may have more staying power than e-commerce experts might think.

Consumers will pay more for goods they can touch: research
There will always be acertian segment of buyers who want to handle the goods first
That is good news for the "future" of knife shows

It also gets tricky
Because, as I see it
Having a long waiting list is sort of a "stamp of approval"
If a guy has a 5 year waiting list===>
It sends the signal to the knife buyer that he is in demand and he only sells hi quality knives
Unfortunately, in today's instant buying power (as in the internet)
Some people are not willing to wait
They need a knife NOW
So they look elsewhere................

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Trent,

I don't see how too many shows hurts the knife consumer More choices the better I always say

Too many shows hurt the amount of people who will attend any one show. Not the overall selection of knives. The amount custom knives for around the world at shows and on the Internet is greater than ever. As this number grows every year as more collectors take advantage of forums such as this to sell or trade their knives.

In 1986 when I went to my first guild show...400+ tables...The most important show in the world...bar none...Best Makers...All the top collectors and Dealers.

2010...100 + tables, Some world class makers, A couple of well known Dealers...Couple of well known collectors.

Some of the makers who were at the 1986 weren't at the 2010 show because they were in Chicago the weekend before....others weren't there because they will be in California for the Plaza show in a couple of weeks.

The makers will offer the same amount of knives....just with less people to look at them (They will actually have less of a "choice" of customers to sell to)

The collectors will have fewer makers and subsequently fewer knives to look at and potentially buy. So they will actually have less of a "choice" of knives to select from.

On the plus side for both the collectors and makers....they won't have to travel as far.

In 1986 you only had to travel to Orlando FL to see the best makers in the world...and a huge assortment of custom knives to look at. Now to see the same caliber of makers...you have to travel to at least 3 shows...possibly more.

If you were to travel to all 3 shows your knife budget would probably be eaten into (a least a little) by your travel expenses.

So while this may get you more choices...your ability to purchase as many choices as you like...may have to be curtailed due to the money now being spent on travel expenses...as opposed to knife choices.

If the answers were simple...there wouldn't be a thread like this one.

 

[NickWheeler]

If the answers were simple...there wouldn't be a thread like this one.

AND THERE IT IS!!!


I'm sure glad I took my Adderall so that I could stay focused all the way through Les's posts!

Lots of good AND interesting info in this thread.

As a maker, I appreciate reading all the input.

Don said it quite well about selling out quick. While I have stuck to my guns in recent years on not selling anything until the doors open... I surely am on the same page as Don about selling out.

There's no doubt that shows are a great time with friends!!! But the bottom line is you can't keep going to have that great time if you don't make enough money to at least get home and back to the shop

 

[RogerP]

Perfect show for a knifemaker: Bring a boat-load of knives and sell out within 5 minutes of the doors opening. In fact, have customers 10 deep at your table when the show opens, waving wads of $100 bills and practically throwing them at you to get your attention. Ultimately, you manage to have the EXACT knife that EVERY customer wants and they shower you with praise as they pay for their "grail" knife. Sit at your table for the rest of the weekend with the words "You're the MAN" echoing in your head.

Perfect show for a customer: Show up at any time during the weekend, walk right up to their favorite knifemaker's table and find six or more of every model he has ever offered, in a variety of finishes, handle materials, and prices. Spend an hour fondling the knives (There is no one else at the maker's table!) and ultimately purchase exactly the knife they want. Proceed to the next maker on their list and do the same thing. And so on.

TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE, of course........But, you get my point.

I get the point and stand in admiration at how well it was made.

Kevin, you never know until you ask. I wasn't always a "high profile collector"...was Average Joe for YEARS, even when I had my knife shop, and some people knew about it. IF you don't pick up the phone and ask the maker to deliver a knife at the show...you won't get a knife delivered at the show. Larry Fuegen delivered TWO knives to me at the AKI 18 months after I ordered them...that is right, 18 months

Exactly correct. There are those who like to grouse that only a precious annointed few can secure a knife before a show. This simply isn't true. All you have to do is ask. The answer may not always be "yes" in every instance from every maker - but it costs you nothng more than a little effort. Not everyone is willing to make that effort. The "perfect show for a customer" as RJ desribed it is not particularly realistic. As I said about a dozen pages ago, if getting a knife from a particular maker is central to your enjoyment of the show experience, then call them up in advance, see what they are bringing, see if you can secure one or at least find out what their show policy will be regarding sales.

Knowledge is power - and it's mostly free, plus tax (effort).

Roger

 

[Ed Fowler]

I have not read all the posts, but here is the way I feel a maker should approach a show. When it comes to Blade Show I start making knives and setting them back for the show in January. I feel that if I am going to a show it is exactly that, a show and it is my obligation to have enough knives on my table in order that the last person through the show on Sunday will be able to look at my knives should he wish.

I could care less about some folks perception of the value of my knives, today after 40 years of making kives I have 3 knives in stock. I love making knives, love talking knives and love shows, I could care less about selling out and would feel very obvious without knives on my table.
If clients comming to a show keep finding empty tables, they will quit shows, shows will will be a thing of the past and we all loose.

 

[PeterPHWS]

We can go hang out at some empty table and pretend we're at a knife show!

PB

.... by the time I had reached this post I was in dire need of a good laugh ....

Interesting thread .... my thoughts are with Mr Fowler on this topic .... I like his way of thinking on what an exhibitor should be doing at a show ....

 

[RJ Martin]

Mr. Fowlers approach is a good one. Unfortunately, the reality is that it is not possible for all of us makers to bring enough knives to a show so that we do not sell out.

From a maker's standpoint, my old adage "If you sell out at a show, you didn't bring enough knives" puts the ego in check and points to the business reality that you lose sales if you don't have anything to sell.

And, there is the reality that customers often react negatively to too many knives on the table. I have seen it many times! Some assume the maker is not in high demand. Some assume the knives are overpriced and not selling. Some assume you are "banging them out" and they must not be "good". Some simply pass right by, intending to come back later-"He has plenty of knives, I can wait". Often times, they spend their money elsewhere. They may come back later, but only to look.

For each show I attend, I have a good idea of how many knives I want to bring. There is a "sweet spot". Bring the right number of the right knives, and it's a great weekend. But, the more "in demand" you become, the harder it is to have enough knives, and you may have to start limiting sales. When a dealer wants to buy 10 of the 15 knives you have, and there are 3 other dealers who also want knives, and you want to have knives left for customers, well, you see the problem. I call this "Juggling Sales". It's not fun.

Theoretically, let's say that by some miracle, I could bring 100 knives to the BLADE Show. I could sell 60 knives to dealers and have 40 left, and that would leave me some knives on the table Sunday. I WOULDN'T DO IT! Why? Because the market for my knives would flatten out for several months. They'd be all over the internet, and there would be no urgency to buy one. Too much supply = Lessened demand. My dealers would be mad, as would my customers.

Lastly, when someone buys a knife early on at a show, and comes back later to a sold-out table, they have an internal satisfaction that they made the right choice. That's a priceless feeling!

 

[RogerP]

RJ - agreed on all points.

Roger

 

[Kevin Jones]

Kevin, you never know until you ask. I wasn't always a "high profile collector"...was Average Joe for YEARS, even when I had my knife shop, and some people knew about it. IF you don't pick up the phone and ask the maker to deliver a knife at the show...you won't get a knife delivered at the show. Larry Fuegen delivered TWO knives to me at the AKI 18 months after I ordered them...that is right, 18 months

I get the point and stand in admiration at how well it was made.

Exactly correct. There are those who like to grouse that only a precious annointed few can secure a knife before a show. This simply isn't true. All you have to do is ask. The answer may not always be "yes" in every instance from every maker - but it costs you nothng more than a little effort. Not everyone is willing to make that effort. The "perfect show for a customer" as RJ desribed it is not particularly realistic. As I said about a dozen pages ago, if getting a knife from a particular maker is central to your enjoyment of the show experience, then call them up in advance, see what they are bringing, see if you can secure one or at least find out what their show policy will be regarding sales.

Knowledge is power - and it's mostly free, plus tax (effort).

Roger

Exactly, however often it’s not just knowledge and communication, but one’s willingness to do whatever it takes to get the knife they want.

For example, a collector who is not making the effort or spending the money to attend a show but circumvents a maker’s rule of not selling to non-attendees by getting someone who is attending to purchase a specific knife for them.

Or arrange getting into shows before they open to beat collectors with less influence to the punch in getting the knives they want.

Yep, as some have pointed out, life’s not fair as some will find a way around the rules.

 

[RogerP]

Exactly, however often it’s not just knowledge and communication, but one’s willingness to do whatever it takes to get the knife they want.

For example, a collector who is not making the effort or spending the money to attend a show but circumvents a maker’s rule of not selling to non-attendees by getting someone who is attending to purchase a specific knife for them.

Or arrange getting into shows before they open to beat collectors with less influence to the punch in getting the knives they want.

Yep, as some have pointed out, life’s not fair as some will find a way around the rules.

Wow - you seem to have very hard and inflexible concept of "rules". I don't know of many makers who see the issue in such black and white terms. And I have come across very few whose policy is "I will sell no knife to anyone who is not physically present standing before my table at the show!" I'm sure there are some, but it's far from a standard or even general practice. Though as I have had occasion to mention, no matter what a maker's selling policy, there will always be someone to grouse over it.

"Doing whatever it takes to get a knife." For me, that has never involved anything more than an e-mail or a phone call. It's more like willingness to make a small effort, versus making no effort and then complaining about preferential treatment.

A proxy purchase isn't quite the moral equivalent of covert espionage. I have had friends purchase knives for me at any number of shows over the years. I go to shows, but can't go to them all. I am grateful to them for taking the time and effort to do that for me. I bought three knives at Blade this year even though I didn't attend. And I have done the same for others. I don't think the makers are unhappy with the sales. I have also had dealers make purchases on my behalf. Les goes to a lot more shows than I do. I have asked in the past - "If you see a carbon steel bowie with ironwood, walnut or blackwood by maker X - grab it for me." If this is a bad thing, I can't see why.

And from what I heard about sales at San Antonio, I bet there are a number of makers there who wished there were more proxy buyers walking the floor and spending someone else's money in addition to their own.

"Arranging to get into shows before they open." Kevin - do you get an exhibitor's pass at Blade? I do. And I know about 30 other forumites here who do. We're not sneaking in carrying a box - we pay money for those badges. I think if more show promoters sold more expensive 'all access' passes that essentially gave collectors the same floor access as makers, they would make some pretty decent money.

And let's not forget the number of knives sold in the room or at the hotel bar the night before the show ever opens. You don't need any "arrangement" or "influence" for that. You just have to be there. The reality is that the knife show starts long before the doors open. Newer collectors would be better served by being informed of that reality, rather than being made to think that they have been somehow slighted or excluded. If you show up at the Pit on Thursday night you will have purchase opportunities that the guy lining up on Friday afternoon won't have. Just as he will have purchase opportunities that the guy showing up on Saturday morning won't. It might not be fair - but it is reality. And as far as I know, anyone is welcome in the Pit - not just "experienced" collectors.

And as ever, complaints about "rule" breaking, preferential treatment, pre-show sales and myriad other grousing points all tend to overlook one simple factor - nobody has ever forced a maker to sell a knife.

And it highlights another easily overlooked point: you can't please everyone.

Roger

 

[Marcel54]

"Doing whatever it takes to get a knife." For me, that has never involved anything more than an e-mail or a phone call. It's more like willingness to make a small effort, versus making no effort and then complaining about preferential treatment.

A proxy purchase isn't quite the moral equivalent of covert espionage. I have had friends purchase knives for me at any number of shows over the years. I go to shows, but can't go to them all. I am grateful to them for taking the time and effort to do that for me. I bought three knives at Blade this year even though I didn't attend. And I have done the same for others. I don't think the makers are unhappy with the sales. I have also had dealers make purchases on my behalf. Les goes to a lot more shows than I do. I have asked in the past - "If you see a carbon steel bowie with ironwood, walnut or blackwood by maker X - grab it for me." If this is a bad thing, I can't see why.

And from what I heard about sales at San Antonio, I bet there are a number of makers there who wished there were more proxy buyers walking the floor and spending someone else's money in addition to their own.

"Arranging to get into shows before they open." Kevin - do you get an exhibitor's pass at Blade? I do. And I know about 30 other forumites here who do. We're not sneaking in carrying a box - we pay money for those badges. I think if more show promoters sold more expensive 'all access' passes that essentially gave collectors the same floor access as makers, they would make some pretty decent money.

And let's not forget the number of knives sold in the room or at the hotel bar the night before the show ever opens. You don't need any "arrangement" or "influence" for that. You just have to be there. The reality is that the knife show starts long before the doors open. Newer collectors would be better served by being informed of that reality, rather than being made to think that they have been somehow slighted or excluded. If you show up at the Pit on Thursday night you will have purchase opportunities that the guy lining up on Friday afternoon won't have. Just as he will have purchase opportunities that the guy showing up on Saturday morning won't. It might not be fair - but it is reality. And as far as I know, anyone is welcome in the Pit - not just "experienced" collectors.

And as ever, complaints about "rule" breaking, preferential treatment, pre-show sales and myriad other grousing points all tend to overlook one simple factor - nobody has ever forced a maker to sell a knife.

And it highlights another easily overlooked point: you can't please everyone.

Roger

Amen brother :thumbup:

Marcel

 

[tom mayo]

A lot of interesting information here.................

I have a philosophy, and it will probably be shot down by a few of you, but when I go to a show........I am quite sure that most of the customers who show up are just like me........they work hard, save up some money, sell a knife or two, and position themselves to get something new that they want more than what they just sold........So they are on a mission, from the get go...........and by the time the front door has been open for an hour the next day, I would wager that a lot of them dont have any money left.

Of course this doesnt include the wealthy buyers or the purveyors, but I am very interested in getting retail at the shows I go to..........I do have a long way to travel.

 

[Kohai999]

A proxy purchase isn't quite the moral equivalent of covert espionage. I have had friends purchase knives for me at any number of shows over the years.

And from what I heard about sales at San Antonio, I bet there are a number of makers there who wished there were more proxy buyers walking the floor and spending someone else's money in addition to their own.

"Arranging to get into shows before they open." Kevin - do you get an exhibitor's pass at Blade? I do. And I know about 30 other forumites here who do. We're not sneaking in carrying a box - we pay money for those badges. I think if more show promoters sold more expensive 'all access' passes that essentially gave collectors the same floor access as makers, they would make some pretty decent money.

And let's not forget the number of knives sold in the room or at the hotel bar the night before the show ever opens. You don't need any "arrangement" or "influence" for that. You just have to be there. The reality is that the knife show starts long before the doors open. Newer collectors would be better served by being informed of that reality, rather than being made to think that they have been somehow slighted or excluded.

And as ever, complaints about "rule" breaking, preferential treatment, pre-show sales and myriad other grousing points all tend to overlook one simple factor - nobody has ever forced a maker to sell a knife.

And it highlights another easily overlooked point: you can't please everyone.

Roger

Surely we cannot be so myopic as to not realize that the sum total of these practices can turn off new, or even experienced collectors.

This thread was not started by a disgruntled maker....but a collector, and an experienced collector with a solid beef about some of these practices.

I personally do what I need to do in order to get the knives I desire(without apologies to anyone).

In the case of a Harvey Dean El Diablo at the ABS Reno Expo a few years ago, this included calling Harvey before the show to find out what he was bringing, securing the cash for this knife, getting into the room with an exhibitor's badge provided by a sympathetic maker(and getting thrown out 1/2 hour later by a Show Co-ordinator) standing at the front of the line to get in after being thrown out(one of the first 3 on line) waiting in front of Harvey's table for about an hour....and having Chuck Bybee clutch that knife in his meaty paw, holding it aloft for about 15 minutes. There were about 10 other collectors and dealers that wanted that knife, it was highly sought after.

Now I can understand that other collectors would be turned off to this sort of behavior, but all I can say is that if you wanted that specific knife, this is the sort of thing that you would have HAD to do to get it.

There are many, many other makers out there that don't have this sort of following, and you don't have to compete that hard to get one of their knives. It doesn't get any easier at a top flight show like the Art Knife Invitational either. The competition to get a Michael Walker knife right now is at an all time high, and simply having the expendable $50,000 is absolutely no guarantee of being able to get one.

Does this make sense? I'm not saying it's right or fair...but you have to know that this is the way it is.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[RJ Martin]

I have a philosophy, and it will probably be shot down by a few of you, but when I go to a show........I am quite sure that most of the customers who show up are just like me........they work hard, save up some money, sell a knife or two, and position themselves to get something new that they want more than what they just sold........So they are on a mission, from the get go...........and by the time the front door has been open for an hour the next day, I would wager that a lot of them dont have any money left.

Of course this doesnt include the wealthy buyers or the purveyors, but I am very interested in getting retail at the shows I go to..........I do have a long way to travel.

Hi Tom: Can't argue with that scenario. I agree that many customers at a show are looking to get one or two knives out of (maybe) five or six they want. Nothing to explain about wanting retail sales, either. Shows are both expensive and time consuming. I try not to think about the 4 days out of the shop when I am at a show.

 

[RogerP]

Surely we cannot be so myopic as to not realize that the sum total of these practices can turn off new, or even experienced collectors.

What I find myopic is perpetuating the notion for newer collectors that they should a) expect a full table of knives in front of every maker at the opening bell, and that b) they should feel somehow cheated if that should prove not to be the case and further that c) if an "experienced" collector got a piece early, it was due to preferential treatment denied to them.

I certainly can understand that those practices can be off-putting to a newer collector who doesn't know the score. But those practices are a reality of almost every show. What's the answer - alter reality, or clue them in on the score?

I have had newer collectors ask me for advice before going to their first Blade show. One of the things I tell them is "Try to swing an exhibitor's pass if you can, and if you can't, let me know and I'll try to help." I tell them about the Pit and invite them to any "mini shows" late Thursday night that I am going to. I have received nothing but sincere thanks for doing so.

Those collectors certainly were not fussing and feeling miffed. Why? They realized there was stuff they didn't know and actually made the effort to ask someone who did. Much as I have done over the years and continue to do - like how I recently went to you for the lowdown on the AKI and like I would probably do with Kevin if I were ever attending Jerry's microshow.

Spinning a tale of an idealistic reality that doesn't exist and creating false expectations that are sure to go unfulfilled is not the way to keep newer collectors in the fold, IMHO.

Roger

 

[Bobby Branton]

As a long time collector, I believe for the die hard collector it is about "The Thrill of The Hunt" that matters most. With that comes the relationships, strategies and the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.
BB

 

[2knife]

If someone is driving a great distance and has a target on what he's trying to buy it stands to reason he may be willing to pay more for a product.. I'm of the opinion that makers who sell out fast, and purposefully do so for economics and for the "safer bet" - are they possibly shortchanging themselves? Or how do your show prices compare with waiting list prices, if different?
I guess it would take someone of better intellect to "read" both the business aspect and the psychology of it, interesting. "Sold out" does give an aire of prestige.

Makers, why not charge $100, $200,.. more, for everything? (if in great demand) . People driving or flying from many miles away to see your work might not mind a surcharge, just getting the opportunity.

Question for Don Hanson, if you'll oblige the curiosity: When was the last show you actually took home knives from, and why do you figure?

 

[2knife]

Sorry if i missed some of earlier posts, such as Trent's. Please disregard my questions if repeats.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Wow - you seem to have very hard and inflexible concept of "rules". I don't know of many makers who see the issue in such black and white terms. And I have come across very few whose policy is "I will sell no knife to anyone who is not physically present standing before my table at the show!" I'm sure there are some, but it's far from a standard or even general practice. Though as I have had occasion to mention, no matter what a maker's selling policy, there will always be someone to grouse over it.

"Doing whatever it takes to get a knife." For me, that has never involved anything more than an e-mail or a phone call. It's more like willingness to make a small effort, versus making no effort and then complaining about preferential treatment.

A proxy purchase isn't quite the moral equivalent of covert espionage. I have had friends purchase knives for me at any number of shows over the years. I go to shows, but can't go to them all. I am grateful to them for taking the time and effort to do that for me. I bought three knives at Blade this year even though I didn't attend. And I have done the same for others. I don't think the makers are unhappy with the sales. I have also had dealers make purchases on my behalf. Les goes to a lot more shows than I do. I have asked in the past - "If you see a carbon steel bowie with ironwood, walnut or blackwood by maker X - grab it for me." If this is a bad thing, I can't see why.

And from what I heard about sales at San Antonio, I bet there are a number of makers there who wished there were more proxy buyers walking the floor and spending someone else's money in addition to their own.

"Arranging to get into shows before they open." Kevin - do you get an exhibitor's pass at Blade? I do. And I know about 30 other forumites here who do. We're not sneaking in carrying a box - we pay money for those badges. I think if more show promoters sold more expensive 'all access' passes that essentially gave collectors the same floor access as makers, they would make some pretty decent money.

And let's not forget the number of knives sold in the room or at the hotel bar the night before the show ever opens. You don't need any "arrangement" or "influence" for that. You just have to be there. The reality is that the knife show starts long before the doors open. Newer collectors would be better served by being informed of that reality, rather than being made to think that they have been somehow slighted or excluded. If you show up at the Pit on Thursday night you will have purchase opportunities that the guy lining up on Friday afternoon won't have. Just as he will have purchase opportunities that the guy showing up on Saturday morning won't. It might not be fair - but it is reality. And as far as I know, anyone is welcome in the Pit - not just "experienced" collectors.

And as ever, complaints about "rule" breaking, preferential treatment, pre-show sales and myriad other grousing points all tend to overlook one simple factor - nobody has ever forced a maker to sell a knife.

And it highlights another easily overlooked point: you can't please everyone.

Roger

First don't shoot the messenger, though I think sometimes you would like too.

Per the opening post, this thread is about collector's getting turned off to knife shows.

And what I have tried to do here is identify issues for discussion, as I feel we all realize how important shows are to the future of custom knives.
I believe the poor economy isn't the only reason we are seeing 30 collectors rather than 300 attending some shows which may have 60 or more exhibitors.

First;
If a maker has a policy against selling non show attendees and a non-attending collector arranges for someone else to purchase a specific knife for them, that's braking the maker's rule. Not gray, but black & white.

I have purchased show knives on the behaft of a few productive collectors residing outside the USA as I feel they are at the disadvantage of being isolated from much of the "knife action" which occurs here. I do ask them to communicate and initiate the sale with the maker in advance.

I feel the best policy is when the knifemaker limits sales to only show attendees for the first 2 hours then opens it up to anyone.

Second;
If a show organizer sets the schedule for show entry and sales to begin @ 10:00am and a collector gains early entry and purchases knives at 9:45 that's breaking a rule. Again not gray, but black and white.
And yes, I do get Exhibitors passes and love the freedom that comes along with such, however don't think I have ever used one to gain advantage in purchasing a knife. I feel it in the best interest of the show if only exhibitors have exhibitors passes. Makers should award their best customers with "VIP" pases.

I'm certainly not saying a collector who does either of the above is a dirtbag , just that it's something else that pisses collectors off who make the effort and spend the money to attend shows.

By the way, I have never said that collectors should be greeted by every table being full of knives at show start, just feel that if shows are to continue to survive we need to work towards all collects who attend getting a fair shake.

 

[RogerP]

First don't shoot the messenger, though I think sometimes you would like too. .

I don't want to shoot anybody - not even Mike Lovett.

Hey, if nobody is supposed to get in until 10 and someone is sneaking in early, then that is breaking the rules and it should be taken up with the show organizer.

If someone secures a legitimate means of getting into a show early and someone else who didn't figure out how is whining about it after the fact, that is another matter.

If someone buys the knife at the hotel bar the night before and scoops both the guy who got in fifteen minutes early and the guy who stood in line until 10 then they both need to take it up with the maker. Or else, y'know, in the future do less whining and more Thursday night drinking in the Pit.

I really don't know of any makers who have a strict policy of not selling to anyone who isn't physically present at the show. Nor do I believe this to be a widely instituted practice. I'm sure it happens in isolated instances, but as an example, it has all the markings of a red herring.

I DO know that when someone is making a proxy purchase ON MY BEHALF, the maker knows the proxy is buying the piece for me. The maker is happy to make the sale. I am happy to make the purchase, and the proxy is happy to facilitate it. If someone external to the transaction wants to get their panties righteously wadded over it, I won't engage in the hypocrisy of pretending to care.

Roger