knife snobbery?

[Pristerognathus]

Ignorance is bliss. :wink: People here have more knowledge that what is self-evident in everyday knife use in most people's lives. They know there are knives that are much better than the common kitchen knife and therefore their desires gets harder to satisfy and makes them willing to buy the above average stuff. I'm a little guilty too. I ordered a spyderco ladybug to have on my keychain just because it's made of vg10 steel. I could have bought a much cheaper folder and I won't do enough cutting to notice the difference I'm sure of. I'm even thinking about buying some s30v fixed blade in the future like the buck kalinga pro for ~$110.

 

[marcinek]

Cold Steel is expensive?!?

 

[aquaman67]

Why drive a Lexus when a Chevy will get you there?

Because you can.

 

[jackknife]

I've come to realize that about 90% of it is outright snobbery on our part. As knife knits, we take it way way out of proportion. Once in a while, one of my friends from another part of the world puts it in perspective for me. Ihave two friends that are old co-workers from before I retired. They are from Vietnam. We'll get together to go fishing, and they are amused, and sometimes aghast at what some knives cost. They of course, don't have our prejudice against knives made in China, so they have 9.99, if that, knives. I'll have something nice, but more costly. They don't understand. When we cut bait, or clean the fish, they use their 9.99 Chinese knives that they've sharpened on a rough old carborundum stone, and to be quite honest, they get it done just as well as my more expensive knife. They scale, gut, and butterfly the fish like a chef, with no problem. So would I used a 9.99 Chinese knife? Of course not, I like my Case and Hen and Rooster knife and I'm a knife knut. But the cheap Chinese knife in their hands did the job quite well. It takes a sharp knife to butterfly a fish.

It's all a matter of perspective. As knife knits, we're skewed in our perspective.

Carl.

 

[Bufford]

Certainly we are knife snobs when you observe how many of us spend hundreds on one knife and add it to collections worth thousands of dollars more. Then compare that to most of the world where they use nothing much more than scrap metal, with wooden handles to them and sharpen.

 

[Ankerson]

I've come to realize that about 90% of it is outright snobbery on our part. As knife knits, we take it way way out of proportion. Once in a while, one of my friends from another part of the world puts it in perspective for me. Ihave two friends that are old co-workers from before I retired. They are from Vietnam. We'll get together to go fishing, and they are amused, and sometimes aghast at what some knives cost. They of course, don't have our prejudice against knives made in China, so they have 9.99, if that, knives. I'll have something nice, but more costly. They don't understand. When we cut bait, or clean the fish, they use their 9.99 Chinese knives that they've sharpened on a rough old carborundum stone, and to be quite honest, they get it done just as well as my more expensive knife. They scale, gut, and butterfly the fish like a chef, with no problem. So would I used a 9.99 Chinese knife? Of course not, I like my Case and Hen and Rooster knife and I'm a knife knut. But the cheap Chinese knife in their hands did the job quite well. It takes a sharp knife to butterfly a fish.

It's all a matter of perspective. As knife knits, we're skewed in our perspective.

Carl.

Sometimes it's about getting a knife for the job at hand.

One can get a lot of things done with a cheap fillet knife or a kitchen knife in those uses, I know because I have some cheap knives for that stuff too. They are cheap so if they get lost, fall in the water etc it really doesn't matter because they are easy to replace.

Would I carry a expensive custom knife out fishing on a lake or river when the few fish I might have to deal with can be taken care of with a cheap kitchen knife?

Nope, I wouldn't.

Now if I had to deal with a lot of fish then I might, but that is a choice.

 

[goodeyesniper]

Certain parts snobbery, but certain parts hating junk... I have NEVER seen a Winchester branded modern knife that wasn't complete junk. Every linerlock I've handled from them has been horrible. My coworker carries one that literally does not lock up at all, he's the first to admit it's pure junk. But it cuts tape for him so he doesn't care. Basically i would stay away from companies that are popular for making things that are NOT knives, who then slap their name on knives. Because they generally get rubbish Chinese knives with no quality control and slap Winchester, or S&W, or Jeep, or Hummer, etc....

Meanwhile I might talk down on Gerber a bit, and have handled some crap ones. But have handled some that get the job done safely. Other coworker just got a little ugly Gerber, I immediately asked to inspect it as I don't really trust them, but it locked up solidly, had an okay detent, and shaved arm hair out of the box. A knife like that is just fine for a non knife guy.

 

[jimmo]

I really like (most) knives. From reading the list I do in fact have several from each maker.
Buck- Kalinga, 112,119,110,880,881.
Gerber- A Older Bowie, numerous LSTs, several MkIIs,Paul
Kershaw- sharp finger, sm. single lock blade,
Case- A couple Shark tooths, a lot of Case CV bladed folders- Hunters,toothpicks, several fixed blades with stacked leather handles. a lot of Copperlocks!Older
Schrade-Older PH1 & PH2.
Winchester- none
I not so much a snob. My wife calls me a hoarder!!!

 

[parkertelmo]

I want to be able to trust that my knife will out perform even me, and the only way to do that is to buy the best knives in the world forged by hard working Americans. Cheap ones are ok if you want to have a knife because it looks cool or you need to open letter but if you are going to really use it you will probably save money by buying 1 high end folder or fixed blade. Plus that price tag will only hurt once because they last forever. The crappier knives will hurt twice, when they let you down, and when you have to buy a new one.

 

[Ankerson]

I want to be able to trust that my knife will out perform even me, and the only way to do that is to buy the best knives in the world forged by hard working Americans. Cheap ones are ok if you want to have a knife because it looks cool or you need to open letter but if you are going to really use it you will probably save money by buying 1 high end folder or fixed blade. Plus that price tag will only hurt once because they last forever. The crappier knives will hurt twice, when they let you down, and when you have to buy a new one.

Depends on if one is a collector or not.

Some of us are both collectors and users so we have a variety of knives for different uses.

 

[t1mpani]

It's exactly the same reason that you don't see magazines on the shelf with lots and lots of pictures of ugly people, wearing poorly fitting clothes. Are they extremely common? Of course, but who wants to spend money for a publication about them? I mean, just imagine the cover of a magazine sitting next to Road and Track with a rusted Datsun being sat on by a 100-pound overweight gal squeezed into a bikini, surrounded by teasers for articles like, "WHO NEEDS POWER AND HANDLING?" AND "1/16TH MINIMUM TREAD DEPTH? FACT OR MYTH?" Somehow I don't imagine there'd be a wide readership.

It's like anything else, you don't TEND to join forums about a subject unless you're enthusiastic about it, and most enthusiasts tend to spend enthusiastically. You'll find that most audiophiles would never own any sound system that could be bought at Best Buy; that doesn't mean they couldn't listen to music on something like that, they just don't want to. Do they NEED the best? No, probably not, but it could not be less my business to tell them that. You'll also find that those of epicurean bent will not talk a lot about $4 box wine from gas stations. Do lots of people drink it? Sure, but not many jump onto sights and create thousands of posts about it.

Personally, I'm not actually put off by the notion of being a snob, as appreciation/understanding of quality are things that I think there is way too LITTLE of nowadays. All joking about fictitious magazines aside, so long as the snobbery is directed at products, and not people, I'm all for it. Between somebody trying to have a super-healthy bottom line, and somebody whose working to impress, I'll choose the latter every single time.

 

[wesessiah]

I appreciate knives of any price that are well made and reliable. Have a few cheaper CRKTs that are awesome, especially for the price. Most of the companies make at least SOME knives that are pretty good, but there is a very noticeable jump in quality from low to mid/high end knives.

Buck makes some good knives and so do CRKT, Case and Kershaw. I don't know about Schrade or Winchester since I have no interest in them, but I know Gerber's quality dropped of a cliff when they got bought be Fiskars and moved production to China.

I have a Gerber Gator I got in 1995 that is US made. I love that knife and it was my first no SAK that my dad gave me when I was like 11. However, I also have a Spyderco Economy from 10 years before. Spydie is about 1000 times tighter (granted, it didn't survive childhood with me, so odds are it had an easier life) It's pretty scratched up and the blade is definitely worn down. but lockup and operation make the Gerber look like a piece of crap.

Also have a Gerber I got for free some where that's a little framelock. The lock is absolutely terrible and very easy to fail. I would be PISSED if I spent money on it.

There's more than one Kershaw that's US made for under or around $40. Between those, the cheaper Spydies and SAKs, no reason to buy crap.

i would have posted almost the same as this...

crkt has been my go to for my edc knives for 10 years or better because the price is good for what you get, and i've never had a problem with blade play, or quality problems, just one broken tip from prying. my older gerbers are good, but i haven't picked a new one up in years now. i love kershaw because i think they cover a large segment. as far as folders go, i think i would be just fine if i could only buy crkt, kershaw, and buck. i think spyderco is another company that hits a large segment, and probably the best at covering the whole gap between something like crkt, and benchmade. i just don't particularly care for most of their knives, though i do like the endura, and how many different steels they use.

i'm a tightwad, so i'm even hesitant to use a kershaw blur s30v when i know it's probably going to take some good wear... when most people here probably see that as a beater knife. this being said, i'll probably never buy some high end knife like a hinderer because it would just sit around; and i'd rather spend that amount on a firearm or car. the realistic realm of the steals i'm going to use would be from 440 to 154, d2, and s30v (and others between.) i'll probably never have something in zdp-189, or m4.

 

[upnorth]

Check out the Knife Reviews forum. All inexpensive knives aren't junk, but the junk to square deal ratio gets higher as the price you pay gets lower.

 

[screened porch]

Nobody mentioned Kabar, did they? I have some Camillus and Westerns I love, but of course they're extinct. Utica Cutlery/Kutmaster is still alive and making some of their knives on Noyes St. in Utica.

I think people are less excited about the standard pattern work-horses. It would be like going into raptures over your bottle-opener. Speaking of which, the knife I always carry is the last one I'd brag about: a Victorinox Officer Suisse- much like my old Cub Scout knife.

 

[jackknife]

I want to be able to trust that my knife will out perform even me, and the only way to do that is to buy the best knives in the world forged by hard working Americans. Cheap ones are ok if you want to have a knife because it looks cool or you need to open letter but if you are going to really use it you will probably save money by buying 1 high end folder or fixed blade. Plus that price tag will only hurt once because they last forever. The crappier knives will hurt twice, when they let you down, and when you have to buy a new one.

I used to think like that, back when I was young and had total faith in my very upscale Randall collection. But when I had the experience of having a Randall 14 outperformed by a cut down Ontario machete, and a Randall number 5 hunter out performed by a 30 dollar Buck 102 woodsman, I started to look at reality. Sometimes, the high dollar does not mean your getting a higher quality object. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But too many people have the unshakable belief that the more they pay, the better the object, whatever it is. Is a 400 dollar knife gong to perform 4 or 5 times better than a Buck or Spyderco or Case? No. But it's going to give the owner a lot more comfort in his mind and ego than a knife you can walk out of Dicks Sporting Goods with.

Forged by hard working Americans?

I had a knife forged by a master knife smith of the American Bladesmith society. It wasn't worth half what I paid for it. It was okay, but so was my Mora number 1. In fact, the mora number 1 was a better knife. ONly good thing about the master smith knife was I could sell it because of the name on the blade and the hype that went with it. It was pretty to look at, but it wasn't the great user it was supposed to be. That same hype made it easy to sell off my Randall's and get my money back out of them.

The whole rest of the world gets by vey nicely with what most of you would call junk. I've had the good fortune to have had the chance to travel a lot when I was young and in the service, and I got to experience some of the world. I've used some crude cutlery in some crude parts of the world, and you know what? It did just fine. Cheap Chinese machete's in Vietnam, crude local made knivers in North Africa when serving at Wheelus Air Force base, some sodbuster type of Herters folders in Germany, and they all worked well at cutting things. Wern't pretty, but they got sharp.

I've got a friend who loves Rough Rider knives. He uses them hard, to the point of abuse. None of you would ever use your Spyderco's and Benchmades like this guy. He figures if it breaks, he'll go buy another one for 9.99. He see's things a bit different than us knife knits who worship the object to the point of obsession. We'll baby our pet knives while the other guy with the cheepie works the hell out of his.

Again, it's all perspective on where your coming from. In the end, the real value is in the eye of the beholder.

Carl.

 

[Shaggy]

I'm by no means a knife snob. I can't afford a Sbenza or Hinderer (and if I could I don't know if the premium price is really worth what you're getting). I own Benchmades and Spydercos, mostly because I like the designs and they're well made. I try to buy American-made knives to support our economy but I do own Japanese Spydercos. I don't have a problem with Kershaw's quality, I just don't like their designs (although some of the upcoming designs like the Echelon look interesting). I will be buying some Bucks in the future. I think most people want feel like they're buying a quality product for each hard-earned dollar spent. I know I do. I like to splurge once in a while but it all comes down to value. How well-built is the knife for what you pay? Do you like the design/materials? How is the customer service? Spyderco has some very high-quality knives being produced in Taiwan but in general Chinese-made knives from Gerber and some others are just plain cheap (as opposed to being inexpensive). Yeah, you can spend $20 for something that has a sharp blade brand-new but how long will it last, and does it make you feel happy/proud to own it?

 

[Ankerson]

I used to think like that, back when I was young and had total faith in my very upscale Randall collection. But when I had the experience of having a Randall 14 outperformed by a cut down Ontario machete, and a Randall number 5 hunter out performed by a 30 dollar Buck 102 woodsman, I started to look at reality. Sometimes, the high dollar does not mean your getting a higher quality object. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But too many people have the unshakable belief that the more they pay, the better the object, whatever it is. Is a 400 dollar knife gong to perform 4 or 5 times better than a Buck or Spyderco or Case? No. But it's going to give the owner a lot more comfort in his mind and ego than a knife you can walk out of Dicks Sporting Goods with.

Forged by hard working Americans?

I had a knife forged by a master knife smith of the American Bladesmith society. It wasn't worth half what I paid for it. It was okay, but so was my Mora number 1. In fact, the mora number 1 was a better knife. ONly good thing about the master smith knife was I could sell it because of the name on the blade and the hype that went with it. It was pretty to look at, but it wasn't the great user it was supposed to be. That same hype made it easy to sell off my Randall's and get my money back out of them.

The whole rest of the world gets by vey nicely with what most of you would call junk. I've had the good fortune to have had the chance to travel a lot when I was young and in the service, and I got to experience some of the world. I've used some crude cutlery in some crude parts of the world, and you know what? It did just fine. Cheap Chinese machete's in Vietnam, crude local made knivers in North Africa when serving at Wheelus Air Force base, some sodbuster type of Herters folders in Germany, and they all worked well at cutting things. Wern't pretty, but they got sharp.

I've got a friend who loves Rough Rider knives. He uses them hard, to the point of abuse. None of you would ever use your Spyderco's and Benchmades like this guy. He figures if it breaks, he'll go buy another one for 9.99. He see's things a bit different than us knife knits who worship the object to the point of obsession. We'll baby our pet knives while the other guy with the cheepie works the hell out of his.

Again, it's all perspective on where your coming from. In the end, the real value is in the eye of the beholder.

Carl.

That's why research is good.

Talking to more knowledgeable people about certain things can really help, ones that aren't trying to sell you something or bragging about what they have.....

Sometimes things cost a lot because of what they are, you found that out with your Randalls, they are highly collectible items so they tend to cost more. Looking deeper into what they are meaning the steel used in them and then comparing that to what else is available on the market would have been good if one was going to be using them. Are they good knives, yes they are and there is nothing wrong with them, but for that kind of money one could get a custom in a high performance steel that would blow them away and it would cost less. Or as you said those production blades for even less money.

Other times the cost is directly related to performance.

1095 on it's best day HTed and worked up by the best knife maker in the world won't even be on the same planet with a high performance steel like CPM 10V when it comes to pure performance, it just won't happen because the alloy content just isn't there in 1095. It's the same with 420HC, it will never match CPM 110V no matter what, anyone who tells you different is delusional at best.

Cost is directly related to performance and materials there...

Those are extreme examples just to make a point that cost does make a huge difference sometimes.

When I was a kid I got by just fine with my Imperial Stockmans and Barlows, but needs change as do tastes in what we like.

 

[CWL]

Cold Steel is expensive?!?

Yeah, that got me as well. Seeing "cold steel" put next to "Sebenza" (CRK) seems rather silly and uninformed. Especially when other fine brands/knives such as Kershaw, Buck, etc. have been lumped in the cheap grouping.

 

[Gator97]

I've come to realize that about 90% of it is outright snobbery on our part. As knife knits, we take it way way out of proportion.

I don't have exact numbers but I believe 50% o that 90% you mention is plain ignorance. There is no point in having high end steel knife with top notch HT and matching price to have it with the same thick edge as 9$ knives you mention. Most of the people who post here about snobbery and/or how good 100 year old steels perform, never used a knife really optimized for cutting, or can't sharpen it correctly. Based on the numbers I see in posts, 15 per side is already "crazy thin edge" and super high cutting ability, which is really not the case. 18-20 per side is much more widespread and thicker edges are nothing unusual. Factory edges are not even worth mentioning in most of the cases.

None of those budget knives OP listed can hold really thin edge, nor match the performance of high end steels. There is nothing wrong basing your next purchase on the budget constraints. However, that is no base to label the rest of the knives as unnecessary or snobish.

So, the way I see it, it's much easier to call someone else a snob than say - I can't sharpen, dunno how to use etc... Not that there is no snobbery either.

I have plenty of knives that will outcut those 9.99$ knives 5-10 times, and outlast them with that high performance edge by the same margin(and some even more). Yeah, the cost more than 10X, but then again, how do you do the math. 10x performance and 10x longevity, do I multiply them? Then high end knife is quite a bargain, as it's less than 999$ Otherwise, even if you just compare one of those parameters, still, I have to sharpen that high end steel 5-10 times less frequently. My time is valuable to me, and even though I do enjoy sharpening, I'd rather not have to sharpen the same knife over and over again on daily bases.

I dunno about snobbery but tales of 1095 and 420HC outperforming high end steels(especially for the type of cutting those high end steels were designed) are laughable at best.

 

[Sonnydaze]

My post got lost in the quagmire of the web, so this one is much shorter. Snobbery plays a part of this game, but so does self-pride. Pride in the blade-steel, frame and scale materials, type of lock, edge-holding ability, ease of blade manipulation, style.
Would you prefer driving a Lexus instead of a Ford Escort? Money plays a part, too, of course; that's the snobbery part. But then, I want to buy the best folding knife that I can afford...pride of ownership. Hlee says: This is a site dedicated to those who love cutlery!
Sonny