Knife steel and the everyday user.

I'm a self-confessed sucker for steel, and leaned heavily toward the first camp above for a long time, but eventually I had to come back down to earth on some things. Before that, I would consider myself the average knife user, having perused the BudK catalogs with interest and used primarily an old Buck 110 and Case Congress for my cutting needs. The Average user may never move past this point, but my journey past it has proven a few points to me.

First of all, I can see how going from 440c or AUS-8 to 154cm or S30V can leave some disappointed. The performance gain is really quite low, (there can even be some overlap) and the price gap can be very very wide. I do think that any average Joe would be able to tell the difference in how the steels behave if asked to, and most everyone who uses a knife daily would appreciate them. S30V to M4 or M390 is quite a bit more noticeable, but I still wouldn't say that these steels offer up an exceptional value for performance over S30V class steels. I think this would be the first step I would take away from no-name steel or AUS class alloys if I were to start over, but not for anyone but a real enthusiast.

Toughness is another matter, and my experience is with EDC folders and ~4" fixed blades. Anyone who relies on a large, tough knife could go with 5160 or L6 and have a knife that would take as much punishment as any, for a very low price. I've not tried INFI so I can't comment on the gains it offers, though I doubt they're worth the premium price.

I think many users' dislike of what some call "super steels" is attributable to the state of their sharpening setup. Using DMT stones, I don't really register an appreciable difference when moving from AUS-8 to S30V to M4 as far as total sharpening times. Trying an old Arkansas stone for laughs once, I am sure that some users could definitely be turned off by the effort required for higher-alloy steels if this is what they usually used to sharpen.

Of course, with my latest purchase of the K390 Mule, this has all changed. Whereas moving up from say AUS-8 to S30V was so close as to be equivalent (to me), and 154cm to M4 was definite but not drastic, M4 to K390 has so proved to be an actual leap forward in all areas. In testing, carving some cocobolo, prepping dinner for a few nights, and breaking down boxes, the Mule has gone through at least twice as much as M4 without sharpening, by my direct comparison, and I don't perceive any loss of sharpness at all at this point. Added to this, the K390 has proved to be chip-free so far at the same edge angle, not something I can say about M4. Unlike these other steels, I definitely noticed a difference as I thinned the angle down on the K390, taking about three times as long to do so.

Lastly, it's true that all of these steels have their place, and that overwhelming choice is the current enviable problem for knife enthusiasts. Different steels do well in different roles, and it is most critical to choose the right tool for the job when looking at any situation to optimize efficiency and enjoyment. My advice to the average knife user, and even enthusiasts here, is to try these different choices before passing judgment. I've been surprised by steels more than I've been confirmed in my beliefs. For my use, K390 is currently the top dog, but in another year, this could change completely.
 
You know, to the average user who actually uses knives, I've found them to be more picky about handle ergonomics than steel choice.
Which actually makes a good deal of sense; you can just keep sharpening that blade (once you learn how), but a crappy handle just remains crappy.
 
For me its the allure of a steel i haven't heard much about. Do i need it , no but its just so cool to have a new steel.
 
jdk1 said:
I think some of the steel specific threads are very educating and valuable. Others remind me of the AR15 forum guys who act like a barrel made of 4140 steel, vs. 4150, will explode if fired. Knife steels seem to really offer some specific virtues for different activities. 1095 and AUS8A seem capable of more than I could ask for, but I enjoy reading about other steels. I bought a HEST II in Sleipner and enjoyed reading about it, though the info was limited. In reality, it would probably last me forever if made from "Surgical Stainless Steel":D It mainly gives me some pride in ownership and extra mental comfort to know it's made with a really good steel.
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It amazes me how knowledgable people on here are, or sometimes how ignorant. I recently got a CRK Pacific in S35VN, being my first knife with that particular steel I decided to do a search. A lot of people aren't fans of S35VN, especially the way Chris Reeve heat treats it ( 55-57HRC). I was actually bummed that I bought this knife because of what I read rather than using it and forming my own opinion. I thought I had an inferior knife that retails for over $300 rather than realizing Chris Reeve probably knows what he's doing and giving the knife a chance.

I can't wait to try something in 110v, 10v, k390 or the like. I was highly impressed by CPM M4 and would like to see what these steels can do.
 
I believe it will come down to how and how often the knives are really used and what is usually cut with them.

Also it depends on what the persons budget is and or what they are willing to spend.

And if they can sharpen a knife or not and or if they have the right tools to sharpen them with as the steels increase in wear resistance.

That will vary greatly from person to person in general and why we tend to have so many choices.

I would say that it's likely 80% or more would be more than fine with an SAK.
 
My choices are motivated by cheapness. I don't like to spend more that $30 on a knife; all my sharpening 'systems' are under $10. So, no fancy steels for me, just Carbon, 420HC, or Inox. They work fine for the occasional cutting task. It seems like the overhead for owning and maintaining super steels grows exponentially.
 
I prefer to keep my EDC with 8cr or better blades. I just need something that will maintain a semblance of an edge even though a hard day or use, but be able to be sharpened when I get home. Sure the latest and greatest steels sound cool, and they hold edges pretty well, but they arealso a pain in the rear to sharpen. I prefer something I can strop back to shaving in a few minutes, not something I will have to work at for a while if it gets dull. Cheap steels also usually keep the price of the knife way down, which is an added bonus.
 
I am not happy with 420HC from past experience. There are times when 1095 is just what is needed. However, much of the time, steels like 154cm or VG10 are fine. The only times when steels with better edge holding have been helpful have been when moving. M4 steel got me through 6 weeks of packing and unpacking boxes, when sharpening gear was not available. Perhaps ZDP189 would have done as well, but I won't know. I do know that 154CM wouldn't have made it through all that rope. I generally use a boxcutter for this work, but there are times and places when a knife is just what is in my pocket.
Normally, AUS8 will do fine, since I don't use my knives much. It is for the occasional move that Something like M4 is useful.
 
I love my high carbide steels, I can cut fir ages and barely sharpen, but high carbide dulls via edge fracture and damage in my use. I happily sacrifice insane wear for toughness. I carry 3v/pd1/zwear now because in My (ab)use, toughness lasts longer :)
 
dogstar said:
It seems like the overhead for owning and maintaining super steels grows exponentially.
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I think that's a pretty fair statement. Supersteels are for those who really do require the performance for their work, or for those of us who are hobbyists and enthusiasts. The average person really has no need for it.

That said, my girlfriend carries a Delica4 with VG-10 steel, which I consider to be an exceptionally good steel for cutlery, a "supersteel", if you will. I'm certain there are those who disagree. :) But, I like her having a really good knife with excellent steel that will keep a good edge all through the day, no matter what she's doing (as a veterinary tech, she cuts a lot of stuff and some of it, like cotton bandages, will wear down an edge quickly). My job is to make sure it gets sharpened as needed. Since I use the Edge Pro, it takes maybe ten minutes to put a hair-popping edge back on it, counting setup time.

It's been a lot less work since I got her some small dykes to cut the zip ties with. Those things are hell on a decent blade, even one made of "supersteel".
 
Thalestin said:
Funny how as you learn you often find your collection getting smaller :)
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The more you know, the less you need. I have a Spyderco Szabo and an Ulize sitting right here on my desk. I have a Spyderco UKPK in my pocket, though.
 
I dunno if I'm a typical user, but my current EDC lineup has a few of the better steels (CPM S110V, CPM M4, ZDP-189) and some of the older steels (AUS-6, AUS-8) and honestly, both are good for my daily purposes. I like how easy the AUS class steels sharpen up, seriously only takes a few swipes on the brown sharpmakers stones and they're back up to shaving sharpness. The other steels take a bit more to touch up but hold it for a lot longer so I don't mind, they are all great steels for me. I can understand if other people need more wear resistant steels but for my purposes I can get by with "lesser" steels.
 
Heck I have a knives in S110V, M390, S90V, ect. Like them for what they are, and understand their limitations.

I am still having a hard time finding a Nick Wheeler straight knife in 1084 steel though :D. I just like trying and experimenting with different steels.
 
I classify m4 as a super steel and the same $15 SIC stone that eats AUS8 also eats M4 for lunch. The costs of sharpening don't really go up, sharpening is a hobby in its own right, same as tinkering with reloading for better accuracy.

It's a deep dark hole. :)
 
Yeah, I've recently gotten pretty darn decent at freehand sharpening and it's definitely made me appreciate the "differences" in steels. With some very aggressive DMT diamond stones, everything can be made wicked sharp... but the super steels are a bit more of a pain.

If I needed a knife for work purposes like I used to, then I would be much more appreciative of steels with extreme wear resistance. As it is, though, they all seem to get about as wickedly sharp to me once they finally are sharpened -- from my M4/S30V/VG-10 to my 420HC and Sandvik 12C27... they all can make confetti from a phonebook or split hairs, so, I focus more on the knife itself than the steel nowadays -- at least until I need a knife for hard work again.

But, hey, the fancy steel debate really feels silly when I remember that my $12 Opinel can out slice any $400 super steel ultra knife.
 
It's soooo true that most people who carry a knife could not care less. I personally agree with an above comment that ergos are of more importance. Build quality is even above that for me. At the same time I personally don't really dig sharpening very often. S30V/S35VN are the perfect steels for me. They hold a great edge and an even better "working" edge and are not a huge pain to touch up. I also greatly prefer stainless steel for ease of maint. and just plain ol' "what if" random gunky or wet situations.

Damn I wanted this post to be short. There are really too many facets to this hobby to really be able to justify them all. Its like convincing someone that prefers brunettes that blondes are better. I, for one, would have to write an essay. I've played with more steels than I can list. The one major standout has been S90V. Yes I did find it to be an upgrade to S30V. As a material all pros certainly outweigh any cons. It could be tougher. It could be easier to sharpen. It could be less expensive. Personally I would take an S30V SnG @ $400 over an SnG w/ S90V for $5/600. In all other aspects it's the design, materials and build quality that win me over or don't. I have never bought a knife solely based upon the steel but I certainly get stoked when a particular combo involves getting to test (play with) new materials!
 
benthughes said:
Rather than rant any more , what do you guys ( and gals) thing about blade steels for the average user? Is it overhyped? Do people make a way bigger deal out of it than it really is? Do you think people realize what they're in for when it comes to sharpening a "super steel" for the average user?

Thanks BF!
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I do think many people make a bigger deal out of it than is generally called for. then again, there are those of us who use our knives for much more demanding tasks than you described, day in and day out, who might just notice a big difference in how different steels, blade profiles, grinds and thickness come into play.

I'll be the first to admit I could get by with just my opinel, which probably has the least wear resistance of my good knives. however at the end of my typical work day it will be as dull as a butter knife. from there I definitely notice the wear resistance going up in increments. 1095, CV, 8cr13, ats 55 all being a noticeable step up, vg10 being a couple steps up, s30v being several steps up, and cpm m4 being above and beyond all the rest.

do I NEED cpm m4? absolutely not. but sometimes it's nice to have a knife that will keep a working edge for weeks of use, when even my good vg10 blades will be near useless after only two days.

I definitely am with you on hard use fascination though. it seems utter pointless and pushed mostly by a crowd which only need light use for actual tasks. I prefer to call them "YouTube use" instead of hard use, as most of their working life is spent being fondled in webcam reviews, being flicked open and shut repeatedly on the couch, being described as stronger only because they are heavy and do not cut well, and then being randomly flailed around into hard objects to prove their hard use for 3 minutes before the user is winded from so much activity, etc...
 
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