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Knife Test?: I called BS on this.
- Thread starter singularity35
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No, not really....
To a point it will make a difference, but it's not the only factor, that is when the blades are close that is, nothing crazy like comparing a razor blade to a 1/2" thick blade.
You can't get away from harder steel cuts softer steel, there is just no way around that.
If the testing continued until one was cut in half, the one that is harder would win in the end, edge profile wouldn't matter a bit as the hardness would completely take over.
That's like saying a marshmallow with cut a diamond if one had the thinner edge profile.
If you're going to go to that extreme, then it is worth noting that a thread cutting test has been observed to damage razor blades.
If you stay in the context of these 2 blades, geometry is the deciding factor, unless the Busse or the Dragon has a faulty heat treatment. Yes harder steel cuts softer steel, and yes geometry makes a huge difference, and each can overshadow the other. However, with these 2 blades, its a safe bet that geometry is the deciding factor. The way to tell is to measure the thickness at the bottom of the "cuts" in each blade. As I said on KT.C, I'll bet they are very close to the same thickness.
Arakiel, what makes you think either doesn't know about modern QC testing?
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Hardness isnt the most important factor in an edged weapon. You need a combination of hardness, toughness, malleability to have a superior steel. Tamahagane vs high carbon steel, which would win if you smashed them against each other? This is why Japanese katana dominated their European counterparts. Not to mention the steel folding process which allowed the blades to have a very hard core along with a softer outer core so that it could withstand impact. This test was kind of lukewarm and needed to be kicked up a notch to see which blade would shatter first. That would prove which was stronger in my opinion.
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No, not really....
To a point it will make a difference, but it's not the only factor, that is when the blades are close that is, nothing crazy like comparing a razor blade to a 1/2" thick blade.
You can't get away from harder steel cuts softer steel, there is just no way around that.
If the testing continued until one was cut in half, the one that is harder would win in the end, edge profile wouldn't matter a bit as the hardness would completely take over.
That's like saying a marshmallow with cut a diamond if one had the thinner edge profile.
Now you are just being obtuse. It is the only factor that matters when hitting two pieces of tempered steel together which are at most a couple points of hardness apart. If they had the exact same edge geometry then hardness would make a difference.
Ankerson
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Hardness will always make a difference.
1 or 2 Points in hardness can and does make a difference.
Tempering also makes a difference.
Edge geometry won't make any difference at all once you get past the edges on the blades... Like I said cutting them in half.
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In the Phillipine shop, aside from a section of rail and a vise, both of indeterminate mechanical properties (although one can make an educated assumption), and a mallet, what other testing apparatus was evident to you guys? Anyone know what testing method they use at the Busse shop? Enlighten me, please!
Ankerson
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I was trying to keep it simple for topic sake.
Yeah you can go in as deep as you would want throwing in all kinds of different variables.
Ankerson
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I am sure back 2000 or 3000 years ago they weren't that scientific or had what we would call labs today or even standard testing. Without all of that the Swords still worked.
They likely just beat the thing on a rock or an anvil to see of it was tough enough or not. They didn't have a bunch of people running around in lab coats carrying clipboards around if you know what I mean.
If nothing else, I've learned that the myth of the katana's superiority over western blades is still alive and well.
Arakiel, that is my point. The smith's shop is very simple and I wouldn't expect to see any testing equipment that you or I might recognize. Heaven knows what Busse uses, and your statement is pure speculation with regard to their knowledge of standardized testing.
Arakiel, that is my point. The smith's shop is very simple and I wouldn't expect to see any testing equipment that you or I might recognize. Heaven knows what Busse uses, and your statement is pure speculation with regard to their knowledge of standardized testing.
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high carbon steel, holding other variables to be the same
I haven't read through the whole thread, yet, so excuse me if this has been mentioned:
Jerry Busse posted some edge on edge "tests" of his knives, a few years back, and explained (as I recall) that this test only really tells you which edge is thicker and which is thinner. The thicker edge always "wins" this "test.
Edited to add: Here is a link to that post:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136448&highlight=edge+test
Jerry Busse posted some edge on edge "tests" of his knives, a few years back, and explained (as I recall) that this test only really tells you which edge is thicker and which is thinner. The thicker edge always "wins" this "test.
Edited to add: Here is a link to that post:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136448&highlight=edge+test
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Ankerson
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That would be a given, same Steel at the same RC.
Actually, no. Read the link. Different steels. Different hardnesses.
Ankerson
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Actually, no. Read the link. Different steels. Different hardnesses.
I like this posted by Jerry.
Taking into count that D2 is more Brittle than INFI.
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My Murray Carter Neck Knife would most likely lose out to my Izula on a test like this even though it has a higher rockwell hardness, because the edge geometry is so thin. For an EDC necker like that, I don't think success in a test like this is important at all. Because after EDC'ing both the Izula and the Murray Carter for months, I can tell you that my Murray Carter will outperform my Izula in EVERY "cutting" test that I can possible throw at it. It's just a better slicer, a better cutter, and in general, just better at what an EDC knife is designed to do...
That being said, taking a knife to the bush or to a hostile environment is a completely different story. The Izula's thicker edge geometry would give me much greater piece of mind AND capabilities than my Murray Carter would, and I would easily take the Izula over my Murray Carter in this instance.
Even with those two items set aside, you still have to keep in mind that both of these knives were different in size, shape, and edge geometry, which means that the test's results should be void due to the fact that the test did not have controlled variables. If they were two knives of the same dimensions, just different steel, the results would be conclusive.
I am able to conclude nothing about these knives from these tests, although I'd be interested to see more of these Dragon Blades.
That being said, taking a knife to the bush or to a hostile environment is a completely different story. The Izula's thicker edge geometry would give me much greater piece of mind AND capabilities than my Murray Carter would, and I would easily take the Izula over my Murray Carter in this instance.
Even with those two items set aside, you still have to keep in mind that both of these knives were different in size, shape, and edge geometry, which means that the test's results should be void due to the fact that the test did not have controlled variables. If they were two knives of the same dimensions, just different steel, the results would be conclusive.
I am able to conclude nothing about these knives from these tests, although I'd be interested to see more of these Dragon Blades.
all of these sorts of tests need to be taken with a grain (or thousand) of salt. kind of useful info on things you shouldn't willingly do to a knife.
i think the tester deserves some kudos to risking his Busse in that manner.
Ankerson
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