Knife you could rely on for survival

[gadgetgeek]

Higgs, When I read the posts you quoted, I read them with knowing a bit of the personality of the posters, because I kinda know those guys, a little. I can tell who's probably gotten sarcastic at this point in the thread, I can also kinda guess what time of day it was when they left it. So those read to me as some gentle guidance, and a bit of fun sarcasm. No one is getting serious about calling you out, but lets say its not far off. I'm doing the best to read your posts as nicely as I can, and they read a little, grumpy at best. You don't need to debate your opinion, just support it, and be clear. But don't be mad if others question it, and try to understand it, we are all here to learn, and maybe to teach.
Yeah this thread has gotten a little strange, but that happens. You are entitled to your opinion, but be advised that broad sweeping statements are going to get jumped on. The Internet is for porn and pedantry, and you won't find much of the former here.
As I said, I was confused by your clarifying post.
You ask "are you going to carry a bunch of stuff to protect your knife if the weather gets bad?" then say you would be bringing a bunch of other stuff, I'm not sure if you meant those things were necessities as well.
Then you say corrosion resistance is important. To who? To you? To the pilot who's issued a knife that has been in storage in the cockpit of his aircraft for 12 months? Sure, those are all logical statements, but you just said it's important, as though its the only factor that matters. If that was the case, why not just have an H1 knife and be done with it?
Then you say "oh well" about your other post being rhetorical. Great! Let us know that's what you are doing, you've been here not that long, its hard to get a read on people over text. Maybe an emoji or some hashtags would help (being serious here, clear communication is key)

Then you list some store's rust tests. Cool story bro. Also you like 3V, great! Nothing ground breaking there, its great stuff.

My opinion! I'd take my LT Wright 3V Next Gen, but the sheath on my ESEE-3 is better. So what's going to be more important for survival? Having at least one of them.

 

[DracoKrys]

Mine doesn't have a coating and it's fairing pretty nicely outdoors, for a carbon steel blade. If it rusts, baton it through some hardwood, the rust will then be gone.

That's a very big knife.

 

[mqqn]

If I knew ahead of time I was going to need it, I would also bring a good saw and some sort of tool for splitting wood. With that mindset, I would want a nice, thin knife for cutting, carving, shaving and skinning that was easy to put an edge upon.

I would seriously consider taking the JK SKinny-MuK

best

mqqn

 

[Natlek]

My opinion! I'd take my LT Wright 3V Next Gen, but the sheath on my ESEE-3 is better. So what's going to be more important for survival? Having at least one of them.

Take the ESEE with sheath .......Then you can trade it to the natives who lives there to get proper survival tool

 

[oxman198]

Some beautiful knives in this thread! Out of my knives it would one of these.

 

[hexenjager]

Most people don't seem to be aware of how poorly "traditional" materials hold up when you are actually stuck out in the rain. For instance, they never mention how Randall's black dyed leather is about 50 X (yes, I meant that, fifty times) more water resistant than the regular brown sheaths: Could it be they don't know this because their owners never go out in the rain with those safe queens?

I seem to recall you wholeheartedly recommending a survival knife to a new member that had a brown stacked leather handle not so long ago. Apparently that fellow was just supposed to stay out of the rain with that one? Or have "traditional" materials gotten way worse in the last few months?

Also, I won't speak for others, but I for one would absolutely love to see you start a thread where you took us through the scientific testing in which you determined that black sheaths are 50x more water resistant than brown. This is groundbreaking stuff and we need to know the test methodology so we can build on your work and figure out the exact water resistance of light tan or even blue leather sheaths. We're certain this number couldn't possibly have merely been pulled from your hindquarters and we're counting on you to share your methods!

 

[Pilsner]

I seem to recall you wholeheartedly recommending a survival knife to a new member that had a brown stacked leather handle not so long ago. Apparently that fellow was just supposed to stay out of the rain with that one? Or have "traditional" materials gotten way worse in the last few months?

Also, I won't speak for others, but I for one would absolutely love to see you start a thread where you took us through the scientific testing in which you determined that black sheaths are 50x more water resistant than brown. This is groundbreaking stuff and we need to know the test methodology so we can build on your work and figure out the exact water resistance of light tan or even blue leather sheaths. We're certain this number couldn't possibly have merely been pulled from your hindquarters and we're counting on you to share your methods!

It is really very simple. You take the result for the black leather sheath, multiply it by the square root of 1, subtract the original number, add 25 then multiply by 2.

Testing is rigorously controlled, with a steady drip of Evian water onto both sheaths, as the knives are tested by relentlessly chopping into hard wood, with a perfect wire edge on both. Simple.

 

[hexenjager]

It is really very simple. You take the result for the black leather sheath, multiply it by the square root of 1, subtract the original number, add 25 then multiply by 2.

Testing is rigorously controlled, with a steady drip of Evian water onto both sheaths, as the knives are tested by relentlessly chopping into hard wood, with a perfect wire edge on both. Simple.

I see. It is quite mathematically elegant.

 

[DracoKrys]

Is Gaston a troll?

 

[Pilsner]

Is Gaston a troll?

That is a perennial question...

But it is best for us in GKD to discuss the post and not the poster. However, it is a perfectly reasonable question for you to ask.

 

[jackknife]

I'll go with what ever the mountain men or the guys in Lewis and Clark's expedition carried. It worked for them.

 

[DracoKrys]

That is a perennial question...

But it is best for us in GKD to discuss the post and not the poster. However, it is a perfectly reasonable question for you to ask.

Terribly sorry I didn't want to start anything

I'm just confused about what he says and it sometimes see if he isn't being serious

 

[Pilsner]

Terribly sorry I didn't want to start anything

I'm just confused about what he says and it sometimes see if he isn't being serious

Many of us can relate to that.

 

[Cursum Perficio]

Maybe it is a non-issue if your knife is Cerakoated...

Most people don't seem to be aware of how poorly "traditional" materials hold up when you are actually stuck out in the rain. For instance, they never mention how Randall's black dyed leather is about 50 X (yes, I meant that, fifty times) more water resistant than the regular brown sheaths: Could it be they don't know this because their owners never go out in the rain with those safe queens? My brown Randall sheaths sucked water in like starving sponges, and, without immediate care and covering, would have lost their shape, permanently, within 30-40 minutes of exposure to very light rain. Randall's black leather sheaths were pretty much like plastics in comparisons...

The same goes with the Carbon steel versus Stainless debate. Most here go on about "patina" or oils (or for the brown sheaths, wax), which all essentially amounts to putting a lot crap on your blades, directly or indirectly, which is why Carbon steel for knives is banned by food safety inspectors from all professional kitchens. And patina is no real protection from rain either, or even from being sheathed with humid air around... My father's 1940s Sabatier Jeune Boy Scout knife had a great greyish patina, and in the field it rusted inside its sheath just like any other carbon steel, even when hidden from the rain... And now I have a stainless similar vintage version, which indeed cut poorly initially, but with a full re-grind it is a better knife (with a black leather sheath) than the Carbon version in a brown sheath ever was.

If people really experienced rain in nature, not from the shelter of a cabin or a car, but instead went on with no shelter at all for short periods in the woods, they would recommend one of the many amazingly tough blade coatings that can at least make Carbon steel practical far from home. These are the same people who discuss steels endlessly, but somehow they never discuss the latest available coatings... Instead they pontificate on a computer about how the West was won with traditional steels. Or, better yet, how constant use will keep rust off a blade, because their own blades are kept unsheathed in circulating air, meaning not actually carried (lying inside a car, porch or shed)... In reality, carried inside a sheath, without coating, and exposed to rain, rust will form on Carbon in minutes. Minutes... Oh yes, carrying constantly a bottle of oil will fix that. Right.

Cerakoating has been superceeded by better coatings by now, but you'd never know it from people who still think brown leather is no different from black...

Gaston

I used to go bush back in the day, camping, hunting, whatever I was up to. My trusty non-stainless Svord bush knife was always great to have around the camp site.

It has a brown sheath, and it's seen plenty of 'wet' over the about 25 years I've owned this knife.
The blade just got wiped down after use, oiled when I eventually got home, the sheath never got 'immediate care and covering', just dried out in the sun, or the hot water cupboard when I got home.

The sheath never 'lost its shape, permanently, within 30-40 minutes of exposure to very light rain'. Please don't point out that the sheath is flat and has no shaping, to do so would be to ignore the fact that this brown leather sheath that has been wet many times is still as functional as ever, aside from the broken leather strip for knife retention. And as you can see my old bush knife has nothing more than a good patina and signs of use.

At no point ever have I thought a coated blade would be better in any way.
Didn't you make the silly suggestion of 'painting' the blade of knives a while ago? That's as nonsensical as 'black leather is 50x more water resistant than brown leather'.

 

[Higgs Particle steel]

12345

 

[r8shell]

Carbon steel for knives is banned by food safety inspectors from all professional kitchens.

In what country? I've never heard of such laws in the United States, can you show me evidence to back this claim?

 

[gadgetgeek]

I took at as people basically just fanboying. I never did actually recommend any knife, just a style. I recommended against an overly large knife with a glassbreaker. I didnt saw a lot of cynicism based off what I feel is marketing and photographs attempting to provide an proof for carbon steels in an outdoor environment.

I was making an argument for using stainless steel and some reasons that it could be necessary. Ive gone on a handful of multi week treks in the Rockies and Ive seen a lot. Perhaps I was taking the OPs question too seriously.

Were the rust tests a bad idea? I ask because things like that arent entirely unhelpful but I thought it was kind of implied that they are mostly just for experimentation.

Using history as an example is great but at the same time we moved on from stone, wood, bronze, iron. I was saying, take a look into some modern stainless steel knives. Im not implying carbon steel blades will rust and disintegrate. Im not implying stainless knives are immune or impervious to any kind of corrosion, just weighing options.

I wasnt going to make a reasonable level headed post weighing this and that and explaining this and that after I felt was just being trolled with shitposting.

The first response to this thread I had typed out which I deleted was: "If I fell out of bed and into the wilderness Id hope to at least have any knife." Then I went with more cynicism. No emojis.

I read an article like a month ago about how emojis are basically necessary for not coming off insulting or argumentative.

I hope this clears the air a bit or at least explains a couple things at minimum.

Maybe I've just had a long day. I feel like I don't quite understand what you are saying because I don't feel like you are quite finishing any thoughts. There are a lot of things you seem to be leaving as a given, that maybe are not. Or maybe I'm just not comprehending right now. Either way, don't be grumpy about it, I'm certain there was nothing personal involved. I think maybe just a cultural misunderstanding.

 

[Dogpiss]

Carving when I need to survive ? What I will need to carving ? Whistle to call for help ............ ??? sorry I do not need a fork, I'll will eat with hands ......... if I find food naturally !

I'm no mountain man or pro, but I've spent enough time youtubing and scanning forums (rather than going out in the hills behind me to practice skills) to know I'm gonna wanna carve for feathersticking, making snares, and likely shelter, not to mention my cooking setup and anything else I wanna be creative with.
I'm not sure if you ever took woodshop, but a box with six flat panels will never be as strong as it could be if it had joints or channels.

 

[Dogpiss]

I used to go bush back in the day, camping, hunting, whatever I was up to. My trusty non-stainless Svord bush knife was always great to have around the camp site.

It has a brown sheath, and it's seen plenty of 'wet' over the about 25 years I've owned this knife.
The blade just got wiped down after use, oiled when I eventually got home, the sheath never got 'immediate care and covering', just dried out in the sun, or the hot water cupboard when I got home.

The sheath never 'lost its shape, permanently, within 30-40 minutes of exposure to very light rain'. Please don't point out that the sheath is flat and has no shaping, to do so would be to ignore the fact that this brown leather sheath that has been wet many times is still as functional as ever, aside from the broken leather strip for knife retention. And as you can see my old bush knife has nothing more than a good patina and signs of use.

At no point ever have I thought a coated blade would be better in any way.
Didn't you make the silly suggestion of 'painting' the blade of knives a while ago? That's as nonsensical as 'black leather is 50x more water resistant than brown leather'.

I wasn t here for it, but why is painting knives a no go?
I don't have strong feelings on the matter, but I am curious.

 

[oxman198]

More survival knives, less arguing about crap that doesn’t matter. It’s annoying having to scroll past all that text.