Knifetests.com-whats YOUR opinion

[WalterDavis]

You know, going with the car test analogy, I've got to say that I would be surprised if a random person started driving cars into brick walls, filming it, declaring a vehicle 'safe' or 'not safe' without being able to say how fast he was going, and DIDN'T get hit with a lawsuit or two And you know, I'd watch his videos too, but I sure wouldn't buy on his advice

 

[Gator97]

Sigh, again, we're talking about "sampling rate" not the methodology.

In other words, when Noss tests, whatever they are, get criticized for doing it only on 1 knife.
Auto makers crash test very few cars compared to the amount they sell.

BTW, car makers do not make claims their cars will withstand all sorts of abuse which knife makers DO MAKE. If they did, they'd be hit with lawsuits if that failed.

And for the record, cars unlike knives have dashboards indicating speed, RPM, temps and lots of other data, plus there are traffic laws that one must adhere, more or less. In other words it's a more controlled and precise experience.

What you will have to do at campsite, or especially, in an emergency situation is completely unpredictable.

 

[Phil Elmore]

What you will have to do at campsite, or especially, in an emergency situation is completely unpredictable.

Stop camping on alien planets, then. To mere terrans, wilderness scenarios, while highly variable, come in a finite combination of relatively predictable permutations. None of them involve cinderblocks.

 

[WalterDavis]

BTW, car makers do not make claims their cars will withstand all sorts of abuse which knife makers DO MAKE. If they did, they'd be hit with lawsuits if that failed.

Funny, I only know of one 'brand' that says it'll stand up for that kind of abuse-unless I missed the CR ad in Blade that said "go ahead and smack our knives with sledgehammers, they can handle it":foot:

 

[kycolonel]

Sigh, again, we're talking about "sampling rate" not the methodology.

In other words, when Noss tests, whatever they are, get criticized for doing it only on 1 knife.
Auto makers crash test very few cars compared to the amount they sell.

BTW, car makers do not make claims their cars will withstand all sorts of abuse which knife makers DO MAKE. If they did, they'd be hit with lawsuits if that failed.

And for the record, cars unlike knives have dashboards indicating speed, RPM, temps and lots of other data, plus there are traffic laws that one must adhere, more or less. In other words it's a more controlled and precise experience.

What you will have to do at campsite, or especially, in an emergency situation is completely unpredictable.

Hmmm- not to sure about the sampling claims here. In any event, the real question is the test itself. Carmakers do crash tests because cars do in fact frequently collide with other objects during the normal course of their use. By comparison if a knife user were looking to hack his way out of a prison block in Guatemala, then knifetest should be their primary source of information. For 99% of other knife applications, their test just doesn't apply. It's fun to watch though.

 

[gajinoz]

Well, this has been mildly entertaing diversion but I've become bored with it

It's essentially a religious argument and, for the most part, they are usually futile. The snake oil salesman and his loyal cult will continue to proclaim they are the defenders of the truth and the rest will argue the point until the end of time with no reolution possible. All that happens is that the argument become increasingly absurd.

For those who enjoy that sort of thing, good luck to you, but I'm moving on.

 

[Gator97]

...
For those who enjoy that sort of thing, good luck to you, but I'm moving on.

Thank you very much... I suspect that was exactly what a lot of people asked to begin with. If you don't like his testing and methods just leave it alone and move on.
The rest of the knife community can figure out themselves and they're not as naive and inexperienced as some of you fear.

 

[Guyon]

Statistical validity and quantitative testing has nothing to do with the exercises Noss does any more than it does when using a knife the first time at a campsite. It is a qualitative evaluation. His testing of knife performance are equivalent to what tractor pulls are to the fair evaluation of agricultural equipment. And sure, there may be a very few farmers out there who buy their tractor brand based on the winner at the county fair, but most watch just to see if the pistons will blow through the engine cover. It's this same entertainment value that keeps em' coming back to knifetest.

What make's Noss' testing controversial is the name of the site and the scoring system, which is based on series of destruction tests which are entirely arbitrary and skewed heavily in favor of the sharpened prybar class of knives.

Hey, someone gets it. I was about to post something similar for Gartor97.

 

[Guyon]

The rest of the knife community can figure out themselves and they're not as naive and inexperienced as some of you fear.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=695146

And a very recent post from a subforum to which I cannot link here...

The "destruction test" and or "chopping stupid stuff test" is alive and well over here in Tawian as well as China.
The guys here seem to just be trying to out do each other by ****ing up a more expensive knife than the last guy.

I often get the lets test this "bla bla bla" against one of your Busses. While they pull out the 1" rebar, bricks and cans.

That knifetests site has a fair bit to answer for IMO

 

[Gator97]

Hmmm- not to sure about the sampling claims here.

On last page and in earlier threads, one of the objections to his tests were the number of knives testes and that whatever he does applies to only a single knife. Which can be applied to pretty much every single knife review posted on BF as well.

In any event, the real question is the test itself.

Methodology? Yeah, but some of the critics invalidate the whole thing based on the sample number. To find a design flaw 1 knife is enough btw.

Carmakers do crash tests because cars do in fact frequently collide with other objects during the normal course of their use.

By the way, those collisions are nothing planed(save for demolition derby) or part of the operating course. yet car makers to crash test them because it can happen. I don't see same guys ridiculing automakers for those.

By comparison if a knife user were looking to hack his way out of a prison block in Guatemala, then knifetest should be their primary source of information. For 99% of other knife applications, their test just doesn't apply. It's fun to watch though.

Well, to each his own. You can hit the same cinder block by accident. You may be forced to use the stone for batoning. You may have to use your knife for prying... I do consider all that to be an abuse, but there can be a situation when you 'have to"...
Otherwise we all know, axes chop better, prybars pry better and so on. Unlikely that you will have all those handy in every situation...

 

[Gator97]

Hey, someone gets it. I was about to post something similar for Gartor97.

Strange... That was you who brought up statistics and sample numbers at first place. So, now it's somehow me?

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=695146

So? What did you want me to see there? How Sharp Phil is lecturing Jerry Hossom?

Some guy whacked the knife into the steel pipe? For one, as far as I can tell from the photo it's real easy to restore. Second, kudos to Jerry Hossom and CPM 3V steel. I have Jerry's knives and I know how thin they can be. If it withstood that abuse, it's very impressive. I never chopped steel pipes with my 3V Hossoms, but that test does provide some extra info. Why some people are so upset...

 

[Guyon]

On last page and in earlier threads, one of the objections to his tests were the number of knives testes and that whatever he does applies to only a single knife. Which can be applied to pretty much every single knife review posted on BF as well.

The point about sampling is that noss4 is NOT conducting scientific tests. By any stretch of the imagination. Apparently, my implicit point was somehow lost on you.

The Great Hockey Mask is doing subjective reviews and dressing them up with a fancier term. He's also rating knives on some as-yet-undetermined scale that affects how viewers value and buy knives. To wit...

I am very glad that someone else is testing knives to the limit because I would like to know how far a knife can be taken.

 

[Guyon]

So? What did you want me to see there? How Sharp Phil is lecturing Jerry Hossom?

I don't think I'll respond to you anymore as you apparently have trouble reading and comprehending between the lines...

Candidly, it put a little knot in my belly when I first saw these pix. I confess I hadn't planned on that application when I made the knife.

Nor should you have. That's gross abuse of a finely made knife never designed nor intended for such an act.

Perhaps you can get someone to explain to you how Phil is supporting Jerry's aversion to knife abuse.

 

[Gator97]

The point about sampling is that noss4 is NOT conducting scientific tests. By any stretch of the imagination. Apparently, my implicit point was somehow lost on you.

It's not scientific, but what's your point about sampling then? More samples would make it more scientific even if the methodology is flawed? Your own review of Horton was based on 1 knife, you posted it on public forum. How is that different?

The Great Hockey Mask is doing subjective reviews and

Which is how you make your reviews too. And I do mine. It's all subjective.

He's also rating knives on some as-yet-undetermined scale that affects how viewers value and buy knives.

But you know all that? So, if that is not good enough for you you ignore his ratings. You can watch the videos and get some info from it, then it's still good. If it's all nonsense to you , then simply skip it.

Perhaps you can get someone to explain to you how Phil is supporting Jerry's aversion to knife abuse.

Ah Oh... For one, Jerry is far more constrained expressing his "aversion" that most of the Noss critics. So, forgive me if I missed that... As for the Phil's agenda, I have no idea what it is, but clearly not support of anyone.

 

[Lycosa]

Man... it's smoky in here.

 

[Guyon]

It's not scientific, but what's your point about sampling then? More samples would make it more scientific even if the methodology is flawed? Your own review of Horton was based on 1 knife, you posted it on public forum. How is that different?

Okay, despite my better judgment, once more...

My point about samples is that TGHM doesn't use them.

I didn't proclaim my review to be a test. And I didn't rate the knife on some scale that is an entire mystery, but apparently has something to do with when it breaks.

 

[Guyon]

So, if that is not good enough for you you ignore his ratings. You can watch the videos and get some info from it, then it's still good. If it's all nonsense to you , then simply skip it.

By the same token, I could say...

You know my subjective opinion about knifetests.com If you can read my posts and get some information from them, then it's still good. If my opinions are all nonsense to you, then simply skip them.

But you can't, can you? Do you have some allegiance here that is, like TGHM's rating system, "as-yet-undetermined" ?

 

[Gator97]

My point about samples is that TGHM doesn't use them.

Hmm, ok then I think I got your complaint right at first place and the argument that to find design flaw 1 knife is enough is still valid. And other arguments as well.

And I didn't rate the knife on some scale that is an entire mystery, but apparently has something to do with when it breaks.

I'm not quite sure what's the big problem with his ratings. There is a specific page dedicated to ratings on his site, you can't miss it. But just in case you did, there he clearly, in bold red states:
"The ratings provided by Knife Tests.com are based on our chosen use for the knife. Your use may be different and may or may not reflect our rating".

So, he clearly states it's his own ratings, doesn't claim science or universal acceptance for his ratings and in the second sentence he's telling that your use and ratings can be different, so what's your beef with that?
His ratings are different than yours? That someone might like his ratings or methodology?
Doesn't he clearly state on the same page that toughness and strength are primary criteria for his knife tests?
Basically you know what they're gonna do and how they're gonna rate it.
There is nothing mysterious or hidden. If it's not your criteria then you ignore it. Other readers will figure what's what themselves.

You know my subjective opinion about knifetests.com

I do, however... You and a few others official agenda is concern and care about knife community and how Noss damages knife community, is dangerous to n00bs and such. Implying that you know a lot more and care a lot more about said n00bs and knife community in general.

If you can read my posts and get some information from them, then it's still good.

I tried that too. However, I am not reading your posts for information, there is very little if any in those, no offence.

If my opinions are all nonsense to you, then simply skip them. But you can't, can you?

I can't huh? First you teach us how dangerous Noss is, now I can't skip your msgs... What's up with this super inflated egos anyway.

Do you have some allegiance here that is, like TGHM's rating system, "as-yet-undetermined" ?

Pretty much none. Freedom of speech(as opposed to smear campaigns) and no to censorship. Those would be my primary allegiances.

 

[phaserrifle]

I fail to see the point in the Noss tests, outside of entertainment.
you can put most knives through all sorts of rough treatment before they break. you can break everything eventually, it just takes time (and the appropriate number of sledgehammer blows)
add to that the factor that half of the "destruction testing" he's doing isn't something you'd do with a knife anyway, and you end with something that might be a better test of a chisel than a knife. if we where talking a scientific test, with reproduceable, repeateable results, (so everything is done in exactly the same way) and producing quantitative data, rather than qualitative ("it broke after X pounds of pressure where applied", not "it broke when I tried to hammer it through the third cinder block") then it might have more use, as you could draw up a table comparing strength, weight, edge holding ect, to enable easier comparison of different knives to assist in the decision process. rather than this, which if you really wanted to, could be bent out of shape through how you interpret it, and doesn't include factors such as edge holding anyway.

and as a mora fanboy, yes, he probably has destroyed my favorite knife, but there you go, it doesn't supprise me that it didn't hold up as well as, say, a busse. but then I payed £10 for it rather than £200, so what do I expect.

 

[Guyon]

Seriously, Gator97, you're preaching this "live and let live" philosophy.

Why is it you can't seem to live with the fact that some folks think The Great Hockey Mask performs dumb stunts to the detriment of the knife community?

No one here is censoring him. Just expressing how stupid his stunts are. Can you not exist peaceably with such an opinion out there in the world?