Knifetests.com-whats YOUR opinion

[Guyon]

Oh, "we" (I love pronouns) seem to be having trouble with metaphors, so some explication might be in order...

lawnmower = TGHM's stunts
Cadillac = the notion that said stunts have inherent value beyond the OMG factor

 

[Guyon]

Why not? Let's do some more comparative work.

While very rarely would anyone's life depend solely upon a knife, I'll grant that said scenario could happen and does happen from time to time. But why don't we turn to a scenario where people's lives actually hang in the balance every single day?

Next time you pop a pill in your mouth, ask yourself... am I glad that this medicine had to pass through multiple clinical trials with random sampling, control groups, test groups, etc.? In other words, am I glad that some actual methodology stands behind its recommendation?

Or are you in the camp that prefers staking a life on conclusions reached by one relatively literate individual who simply offered up a random number of pills to a single person, watched whether he improved/declined/died, and then assigned some fairly arbitrary Caducei of Doom?

Your pick.

After all, these are survival knives (well, most of them, I guess), and we need to know if they will save us in the big pinch.


.

 

[orthogonal1]

...

Next time you pop a pill in your mouth, ask yourself... am I glad that this medicine had to pass through multiple clinical trials with random sampling, control groups, test groups, etc.? In other words, am I glad that some actual methodology stands behind its recommendation?

You imply that knife makers regularly do this. I have yet to read about any "blind tests", etc. being performed on production knives.

Until then, I guess we'll just have to get by on knife users testing their own knives.

Or are you in the camp that prefers staking a life on conclusions reached by one relatively literate individual who simply offered up pills to a single person, watched whether he improved/declined/died, and then assigned some fairly arbitrary Caducei of Doom?

Sorta like the medicine industry does to determine if a new treatment works, wouldn't you say. "Try these, they may cure you".


Haven't seen any legislation requiring mandatory tests on knives to determine suitability for various uses. Perhaps you should go to Kalifornia and suggest some such legislation. I'm sure they'd love it. But beware, they might actually require that you do something instead of merely writting how things "should be". Perhaps your paper of proof will involve actually proving the conclusions of NOSS4 are incorrect.

We waite with baited breath.

 

[Guyon]

We waite with baited breath.

"Waite" for it.

Illumination is but one more broken knife away.

 

[orthogonal1]

"Waite" for it.

Illumination is but one more broken knife away.

Ah, so now you agree that NOSS4 has made correct conclusions.

 

[Guyon]

Well no, I meant "illumination" for you.

 

[orthogonal1]

Well no, I meant "illumination" for you.

Covering, covering.

 

[Ankerson]

Why not? Let's do some more comparative work.

While very rarely would anyone's life depend solely upon a knife, I'll grant that said scenario could happen and does happen from time to time. But why don't we turn to a scenario where people's lives actually hang in the balance every single day?

Next time you pop a pill in your mouth, ask yourself... am I glad that this medicine had to pass through multiple clinical trials with random sampling, control groups, test groups, etc.? In other words, am I glad that some actual methodology stands behind its recommendation?

Or are you in the camp that prefers staking a life on conclusions reached by one relatively literate individual who simply offered up a random number of pills to a single person, watched whether he improved/declined/died, and then assigned some fairly arbitrary Caducei of Doom?

Your pick.

After all, these are survival knives (well, most of them, I guess), and we need to know if they will save us in the big pinch.


.

Yeah, but I wonder how a lot of them ever get approved with the side effects being worse than the problems they are supposed to solve.

It's like this will work for X.

But has the following side effects:

a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,v,w,y,z.

 

[Guyon]

Good point! Spoken like a man who's had an erection lasting more than four hours!

 

[Ankerson]

Good point! Spoken like a man who's had an erection lasting more than four hours!

Oh you are funny.....

 

[Gator97]

lawnmower = TGHM's stunts
Cadillac = the notion that said stunts have inherent value beyond the OMG factor

Using that logic, me and quite a few others are the salesman of the said Cadillac, not Noss. Therefore you accuse me and all others (same as we, us) who think Noss' tests have some merit, of being fraudsters?

Next time you pop a pill in your mouth, ask yourself... am I glad that this medicine had to pass through multiple clinical trials with random sampling, control groups, test groups, etc.? In other words, am I glad that some actual methodology stands behind its recommendation?

Yes I am However, let's start with the fact that you mentioned the word "random", which is exactly the opposite of "repeatable".
Second, let's not forget that those trails are not often safe - contrary to the argument that knife tests or all other tests have to be safe in order to learn anything from them. That besides the sad fact that very often medication that allegedly passes all those tests is later found to be doing more harm than good.
Also, there is specific body, called FDA right? Isn't it in place to control the statements made by those manufacturers and their tests?
And finally, where are the specific guidelines and scientific tests for the knife testing analogous to the above?

Or are you in the camp that prefers staking a life on conclusions reached by ...

I am in the camp who doesn't want You & Co. to define how the medicine(knives in our case) should be tested and bash all other testers and declare their opinions to be the last word in the testing methodology. Especially that, you do not even provide anything but empty words to back those claims up.

 

[Guyon]

Question: Does Gator97 destroy any of the knives he reviews? If not, then does he have more than words to demonstrate that noss4's efforts are valuable beyond their entertainment factor?

Oh you are funny.....

It was an amicable joke. I hope you didn't take that one the wrong way.

 

[orthogonal1]

Question: Does Gator97 destroy any of the knives he reviews? If not, then does he have more than words to demonstrate that noss4's efforts are valuable beyond their entertainment factor?

...

What does that have to do with the question of whether or not the activities of NOSS4 have some value? People test with different objectives.

And it is you that has issues with gaining some information from the activities of NOSS4, notably alleging the conclusions are invalid, and it is you who have yet to disprove those conclusions.

 

[Guyon]

Earlier, the value was some measure of toughness.

Now, the value seems to be whatever "we" want to make it.

"We can make noss4's 'tests' whatever we want!"

Is that where "we" are now?

The most stringent form of absolutism is relativism.

I'm still waiting for someone else to break some knives and prove old noss right.

 

[orthogonal1]

Earlier, the value was some measure of toughness.

Now, the value seems to be whatever "we" want to make it.

"We can make noss4's 'tests' whatever we want!"

Is that where "we" are now?

The most stringent form of absolutism is relativism.

I'm still waiting for someone else to break some knives and prove old noss right.

I still don't know who this "we" is. Who are they?

Nor do I recall anyone stating to the affect that the value is whatever they choose it to be.

By definition, "relativism" cannot be "absolutism" and why are you yet again changing the topic?

And I'm waiting for you to "break some knives and prove old noss" wrong.

 

[Gator97]

Question: Does Gator97 destroy any of the knives he reviews? If not, then does he have more than words to demonstrate that noss4's efforts are valuable beyond their entertainment factor?

What you don't get is that we(as in all of us) absolutely don't have to do the same thing and be the same. And it is ok to test in a different manner, for different objectives or even the same objectives.

Besides, I am not trying to "demonstrate" that noss' tests have value beyond this and that.
Unlike you, I don't consider my reviews and tests to be the absolute truth and I don't get upset when others test differently or disagree with my conclusions.

I'm still waiting for someone else to break some knives and prove old noss right.

Why exactly would someone else do the job for you anyway? So far you are the one concerned with proving him wrong, whoever sees the value in his tests that's enough for them, you on the other hand stated more than once that you want to convince n00bs not to trust his tests. Consequently, any n00b can ask you to provide some evidence.
Does anyone ask you to buy Noss' video? Or send him your knives? Why does anyone has to bother proving him wrong, when all that stuff is available for YOUR evaluation, you can't make use of it, fine, so be it.

BTW, on the related note, do You believe in God? Knowing you, I guess I have to add upfront, no I do not assume Noss is divine.

 

[Guyon]

Someone who thinks everything is relative has a fairly absolute take on the world, does he not?

Gator97 will have to define who "we" is. I just borrowed it from him.

To "prove" anything about knife toughness, it would take considerable financial outlay--including machines, computers, multiple knives of the same type, etc. No individual in his right mind is going to put out that kind of money, so the challenge is silly in the first place.

Most of this thread has been about how a sample of 1, treated imprecisely, teaches us little, if anything, about "toughness." Even an industry leader has chimed in on this sampling issue. With a sample of 1, you're pretty much wasting perfectly good knives, aren't you?

Oh snap! Maybe TGHM should have thought of that!

Stunts with a sample of 1 do, however, make the mommas and the babies go "Wow! Did you see that?!" Maybe that's the point...

All along, I've said that TGHM is an entertainer. No quibbles there. Would anyone like to compare favorite movies now?

 

[dl351]

If you want to do a test of strength, one of the first criteria is that you test using equal moments (or torques). If the force and the moment distance are both unmeasured, you won't be able to make any comparisons regarding strength either.

Yeah, I know. I could do some calculations to make approximate comparisons of the Becker BK9 and Cold Steel SRK, but just finishing up with finals week has made more calculations seem less than exciting for me right now. Maybe later when the "joy" of final exams has worn off, I'll think about it more.

Oh, and whoever said that a knife that was highly rated on knifetests.com is more than likely a good knife must have different criteria than myself, which is fine. Some of those knives (the Cold Steel GI Tanto and Schrade Extreme Survival) are made of lower carbon steel at a lower hardness (a spring temper) than knives that got lower ratings. If your criteria for a good knife is simply toughness, well, they might be good for you. For me, I'd rather have a knife that has a higher hardness, even if it might more "easily" break.

 

[Gator97]

Gator97 will have to define who "we" is.

I can't speak for you, but I'll be happy to clarify my use of of the term. We as used in my earlier post was referring to the BF members who think that everyone here is equally free to test/destruct their knives and use them in the manner they see fit. And who also happen to think that they're good enough to make conclusions themselves, without guidance form the selected few, which BTW are very "self appointed" selected few, but somehow feel compelled to tell others what to think, what to do, how to use/test knives and etc... Actually I take that back, you guys don't really tell how to test. Just general hysterical reaction to knife abuse.

With a sample of 1, you're pretty much wasting perfectly good knives, aren't you?

Then your own review is just as meaningless, and using yours, Slim's and others logic one could accuse you of massive fraud, snake oil sales and whatever else...

Stunts with a sample of 1 do, however, make the mommas and the babies go "Wow! Did you see that?!"

And your problem is?

All along, I've said that TGHM is an entertainer.

Much better than you

 

[Guyon]

Where exactly did I waste a perfectly good knife?

Those damnable blackouts...

I am so glad that Gator97 finally agrees that TGHM's main value is as an entertainer. :thumbup:

Gator97, I'll show you my Netflix queue if you'll show me yours.