Knifetests.com-whats YOUR opinion

[Gator97]

Where exactly did I waste a perfectly good knife?

And where exactly did Noss waste your perfect knife? His knives, his tests, his ratings, but your choice what yo make of them.

I am so glad that Gator97 finally agrees that TGHM's main value is as an entertainer.

Tsk tsk. Why would you misinterpret so badly. His main value is different for every viewer/reader. I merely pointed out he's better than you, in entertainment area.

Queue is empty for now...

 

[orthogonal1]

Someone who thinks everything is relative has a fairly absolute take on the world, does he not?

No.

Gator97 will have to define who "we" is. I just borrowed it from him.

If you "borrow" an idea, you should use it properly.

To "prove" anything about knife toughness, it would take considerable financial outlay--including machines, computers, multiple knives of the same type, etc. No individual in his right mind is going to put out that kind of money, so the challenge is silly in the first place.

And what do you have to do with an "individual in his right mind".

And, one wonders about a persons engineering background when they even suggest that computers are needed to determine basic emperical data. Gee, how did mankind get by for hundreds of years? As to cost, the highest cost is the outlay for the knives themselves - the "testing machines" can be fabricated cheaply from supplies found in any scrap metal facility.

No challenge has been put forth - either state why the conclusions of NOSS4 are incorrect or prove otherwise. Basic concepts in the Science community. The driveling concerning proper statistical analysis are quaint, but not persuasive nor even germane to the issue.

Most of this thread has been about how a sample of 1, treated imprecisely, teaches us little, if anything, about "toughness." Even an industry leader has chimed in on this sampling issue. With a sample of 1, you're pretty much wasting perfectly good knives, aren't you?

If one performs poorly, should one assume that all others do not? Should one assume that the one tested is the anomoly?

Stunts with a sample of 1 do, however, make the mommas and the babies go "Wow! Did you see that?!" Maybe that's the point...

And, as usual, you go off on another tangent of little import. What does the "ooh" factor have to do with the conclusions? Nothing.

 

[Guyon]

What does the "ooh" factor have to do with the conclusions? Nothing.

Precisely. All "ooh" and no conclusions of any real value. :thumbup:

 

[theonew]

Is it just me As far as I can tell THBL isn't actually entering into a discussion about TGHM, seems like he just keeps responding to points by reiterating his ignorant opinion along with awkward attempts at humor. So what is the point of continuing this? Anyone who decides to read this thread, will never get past the first few pages anyway. At this point we should just be posting pretty pictures to keep this thread alive

 

[Guyon]

I agree. :thumbup:

It's become a semantic game at this stage as Gator97 painstakingly twists every line into his perspective, as orthogonal1 issues the same silly challenge over and over, and as theonew continues to call me out rather than address points about TGHM.

I wanted to share favorite movies since TGHM is such a great filmmaker, but pretty pictures will do. Some time back, I noted correctly that this thread is an argument over aesthetics.

 

[theonew]

I totally missed the foliage season this year :grumpy:

But last year was great

It's become a semantic game at this stage as Gator97 painstakingly twists every line into his perspective

That's actually called having a discussion, the idea being that you do the same with your response. It's pretty demanding and not much fun though.

 

[Gator97]

It's become a semantic game at this stage as Gator97 painstakingly twists every line into his perspective,

Hmm, how? I painstakingly addressed every point(often very vague and irrelevant) in hopes of ... I dunno anymore what. You keep jumping from subject to subject, throw around false accusations, and the best argument you have is that Noss' aren't scientific while you can't define what is...
Sorry, but I really don't buy your version or agenda that you're concerned about the n00bs corrupted by evil Noss. You're not the first one to claim public's best interest in order to shut others up and push your agenda.

as orthogonal1 issues the same silly challenge over and over, and as theonew continues to call me out rather than address points about TGHM.

Which in theory is worth doing, since you have been caught on misinterpreting facts and posts, twisting them to fit your agenda, falsely accusing Noss to things he didn't do or didn't say.
Unfortunately, it's pointless, because doesn't matter how many times you'll get caught on that, you'll do exactly same in the next post 3 minutes later.

 

[Guyon]

Hmmm, I wasn't the one who claimed the Becker and the Cold Steel had different steels.

Or that Einstein failed math.

Or implied that his math teachers commented derisively on his spelling.

BTW, where's my $100?

Maybe Gator97 could point out all the places where I made false claims though.

Edited to add:

That's actually called having a discussion, the idea being that you do the same with your response. It's pretty demanding and not much fun though.

It's not very rewarding when nearly every counter-point is a misinterpretation. Just ask Broos. How many times has he commented that Gator is going in circles? After I saw the writing on the wall, it really was not worth the effort to do the line-by-line. In this particular case, that's called beating your head against a wall. Same with orthogonal1. I could post, "RED DAISIES!" and he'd respond by asking me to prove TGHM wrong.


.

 

[dl351]

I have to admit, some of my posts have been picked apart and misinterpreted. That's why I don't care to get into much detail here any more. I don't necessarily put the blame all on others. This is a written word forum, which makes it hard to communicate clearly at all times. However, some here seem to like arguing. Just my opinion.

 

[Guyon]

I have to admit, some of my posts have been picked apart and misinterpreted. That's why I don't care to get into much detail here any more. I don't necessarily put the blame all on others. This is a written word forum, which makes it hard to communicate clearly at all times. However, some here seem to like arguing. Just my opinion.

I agree about how your posts were treated. Same pattern of seemingly purposeful misinterpretation.

So exactly who is trying to run who off here? That's a great question, isn't it?

 

[skwurll]

In some recent threads I have posted there has been some controversy over Knifetests.com. I think everyone is aware that no one is going to be in a situation where they need to chop cinder blocks in half or have their knife withstand lateral impacts from a hammer. I agree that it is an unfair review to a knife, I have seen a lot of good knives get bad reviews. But isn't it nice to know that the knife you own can chop through a cinder block and withstand forces that you know would never occur? I think most people who buy Busses see it this way. Also I know without a doubt that any knife that did get a good rating from Knifetests.com is an excellent knife to withstand so much. What do you think about Knifetests.com?

I don't see a systematic method to the madness. Each knife is not tested equally nor of knife type and purpose.

 

[Guyon]

I don't see a systematic method to the madness. Each knife is not tested equally nor of knife type and purpose.

:thumbup:

While I totally agree, snorkem is long gone, my man. He laughed hysterically for about a week and then left out.

 

[Gator97]

Hmmm, I wasn't the one who claimed the Becker and the Cold Steel had different steels.

As it turned out, I was correct for the current versions of those knives, 1095 vs. Carbon V, right? Also, it was pretty clear from my post that I was making a statement that 1095 != Carbon V, which was also correct. And I admitted where I was wrong on my part, and how.

Or implied that his math teachers were commenting on his spelling.
BTW, where's my $100.

Hmm, go back to the post. Bet was that his teacher made a comment that no good would come out of him. Then read the page 1 of the link you posted yourself. You lost, and if you insist, be my guest, I can donate 100$ you send to Noss
BTW, unlike you and other "enlightened" here, I have no problem whatsoever admitting when I am mistaken or wrong. I don't believe in infallible people too. Which is why I am having argument with you and others.

Maybe Gator97 could point out all the places where I made false claims though.

99% of your posts in this thread, save for those which consist of single phrase like "one more enlightened" or "excellent post" + thumbsup.

though. Just ask Broos. How many times has he commented that Gator is going in circles?

Ohh. Since Broos said so
a) I felt the same thing and said so. Although, I strongly suspect I'm not the only one responsible for the circles.
b) I asked Broos quite a few questions, and the best I got out of him was an assignment to go study a bit of materials science to determine the effect of the increased thickness and length on the steel bar strength. It's rather surprising, considering that I wasn't the one objecting to those test results, but I'll try.

So exactly who is trying to run who off here?

You and your comrades are. Since believe you know better what n00bs should read/see and what not, and what an individual can do with is property and what not.

 

[Guyon]

I'm still not seeing where I laid down any falsities, unlike some. Now, I've expressed opinions that might have hurt some tender feelings, but show me a false fact, and if it's wrong, I'll gladly and graciously rescind it.

Seriously, I doubt Broos wants to jump through someone else's hoops and spend time on a bunch of calculations, just so someone can come back and argue that the premise must be wrong in the first place.

 

[Gator97]

Seriously, I doubt Broos wants to jump through someone else's hoops and spend time on a bunch of calculations

Considering the "premise" was science, and scientific approach, it would only be logical to augment the premise with some factual data, and scientific formulas which you guys cite so often.
Last time I checked the scientific approach, it was like that, the side trying to prove a point would bring data, formulas, etc.
You want it the other way, the side which is just fine with Noss' tests, has to do the calculations to prove themselves wrong?
Alternatively, just take your word and vague references to science follow you?
You guys aren't high priests U know Not that I'd follow any of them anyway.

 

[theonew]

It's not very rewarding when nearly every counterpoint is a misinterpretation.

Yep, it sucks, quite a bother, forget I mentioned it, my bad

Memo to Gator: THBL will never engage in an actual discussion about TGHM, it would be infra dig.

Anyone ever see an oyster shell melted on a rock?

 

[Guyon]

You and your comrades are. Since believe you know better what n00bs should read/see and what not, and what an individual can do with is property and what not.

Interesting how this thread has slowly gotten moved from an argument about stunts v. tests to an argument about political freedom.

Viva El Noss!

However, I and others here at Bladeforums have every right to complain when the sorely misinformed regularly invade BFC with their fanboy antics and copycat destruction tests. When I speak of community, that's exactly what I mean. In my opinion, there exists an obligation to teach people that these so-called tests amount to nothing more than stunts. Hush tactics and consistent misinterpretations aren't going to quiet such objections.

As an aside here, I've given more thought to theonew's criticism about the Busse attitude. And I've got to give some ground. He's right that there exists a "Beat It" mentality fairly common among that crowd. But here's an important consideration... they extend this mentality only to Busse knives. And if Jerry Busse himself encourages it and takes care of his customers when they screw up, well that's just more evidence of Jerry's marketing savvy.

While I don't see Busse fans telling people to go out and beat on their other brands, an unfortunate translation may occur. That is, a problem arises when folks take the Busse mentality out into the greater knife-using community. So what should we do? Well, teaching them better respect for their tools is a start. I'm all for that. I have a lot of Busse knives, and my "abuse" extends about as far as hitting their spines with a baton log.

The stunt mentality has gotten to the point that a well-respected survivalist recently issued a fairly dramatic statement aimed directly at such idiocy. This is someone who really has used knives in remote conditions where survival was an issue.

Please DO NOT buy our knives....
...if you do not understand how to maintain a simple hand tool or understand the basics of using a sharp hand tool. We are not looking for new customers! We build our knives for people who actually use and understand tools, and for those truly interested in learning outdoor skills, thus in need of a working knife. We DO NOT want to sell any knife to someone simply because it's something cool-looking to impress your friends with. Please, please, please consider other knife companies before you buy a RAT product!

...

I would also like to address another issue that concerns the "Don't buy our knives" sticky. I have gotten several emails from members asking why we would post such a thing, and if we meant it. WE DO, IN FACT, MEAN IT!!!! Our knives are tools made to be used by people who have at least a basic understanding and respect for hand tools, their use, and the maintenance associated with them. We pride ourselves in the fact that our customer base probably has more common sense and survivability than 90 percent of the folks walking around. Maybe that sounds "elitist" but the common sense Invidualist is indeed our target market. We want customers who use knives and appreciate tools for what they are. If this hurts anyone's feelings, so be it - DONT BUY OUR STUFF!

RAT has always been about a no-bullshit philosophy of Individualism, Survivalism, Common Sense and Reason. We are NOT interested in catering to any other mindset. That does not mean that we don't welcome newcomers to this philosophy of common sense, Individualism and Survivalism. In fact, we love to see new folks come on board and learn. All we're saying is if you want to get out and run through the woods like an idiot, throw knives, beat on them with hammers or intentionally abuse shit just becasue you can, and then not understand how to maintain it after all of that, then buy someone else's stuff. ...

 

[Guyon]

Yep, it sucks, quite a bother, forget I mentioned it, my bad

Memo to Gator: THBL will never engage in an actual discussion about TGHM, it would be infra dig.

Anyone ever seen an oyster shell melted on a rock?

Who's the comedian? Remind me again.

Oh yeah, it's TNYD. :thumbup:

Mexican jumping beans, man! All I've done here is discuss TGHM.

.

 

[theonew]

Weird and interesting, I saw that Guyon responded with:

Who's the comedian? Remind me again

And while I was contemplating its profundity and browsing around I came back to this:

Who's the comedian? Remind me again

Christ on a sidecar, man! All I've done here is discuss TGHM.

Hmmmm, a work in progress. Another F5 and we had this:

Who's the comedian? Remind me again

Oh yeah, it's TOWKA.

Mullet on a sidecar, man! All I've done here is discuss TGHM.

Brilliant addition but this is where it gets interesting, another F5:

Who's the comedian? Remind me again

Oh yeah, it's TDLN

Mexican jumping beans, man! All I've done here is discuss TGHM.

And the final version, not my favorite, but excellent nonetheless:

Who's the comedian? Remind me again.

Oh yeah, it's TNYD. :thumbup:

Mexican jumping beans, man! All I've done here is discuss TGHM.

.

Sorry for the hijack, I just didn't know that people took their heckling so seriously. If it was up to me I would have stuck with the 'Mullet on a sidecar' version, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Guyon]

Well, Christ on a sidecar seemed disrespectful after I'd already hit POST REPLY, and I figured it was going to bother Gator, who already invoked faith somewhere about six or seven pages back. I went with "Mullet" after that, which I thought was pretty funny, but then I realized that Christ could be interpreted as having a mullet. Best not to go there. Afterwards, I played around with my acronym, and while TOWKA really was a stroke of genius, TDLN better fit the four-letter precedent that has long been established in this thread. Who am I to buck convention? :thumbup: TDLN was a weak first effort, however, and I finally gave it up for TNYD, which was a more solid choice.

I am interested in your fascination with my writing and editing process, however. If you'd like, we could discuss great books instead of posting pretty pictures.

And you're right. Sometime you can overedit. "Mullet" probably was the better choice.