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Knifetests.com-whats YOUR opinion
- Thread starter snorkem
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IMHO Knifetests.com is right up there with Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and Religion -- you're either a believer or you are not and you probably can't be convinced otherwise.
Personally I like Knifetests.com because I've seen a few things on there that I never thought of such as how the Fallkniven blade lasted longer probably due to being laminated as well as the testing of hidden tang knives with their handles removed -- which blows away some of the theories that unless you're rocking a full tang with slab handles your knife will break.
Overall Knifetests.com provides information that can be used or dismissed by the consumer at will.
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I have discovered a knife made better than all others, it will destroy the knife tests, knife tests (someone should patent that) its name...this mighty blade.
a chisel.
Good Luck with that.
a chisel.
Good Luck with that.
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I'm happy for you...
Terrific. Enjoy your chisel
I hope you have nothing against other knife guys discovering their own mighty knives and doing their tests.
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You say they are not scientific, which means by definition that what you can conclude from them is just subjective.
I've repeatedly asked you and the other vociferous noss defenders to state what objective conclusions can be made from these videos.
I have explained how to measure strength, and that you cannot guage strength if you do not control the variables in the equation I linked to earlier. And no attempt is made to control these variables in the vids - so the stress that breaks one knife could be 4 times the stress that did not break another - and you cannot compare strength when you don't have a clue of the magnitude of the stress you are applying.
Tell me do you think that one can compare how strong a knife is from these videos? It is explicit in the threads that many think the answer is yes. I have pointed out the truth that a strength comparison cannot be made with any accuracy. Though I have received numerous replies full of criticisms, I have not seen any factual argument to the contrary.
You might be able to make a graph of the relative safety (or the relative risk of losing an eye), of flailing away in a random fashion an a particular knife. You can place those that don't break in the safest portion of the graph marked "very stupid", and place those that break in the high risk category labeled "extremely stupid".
To understand how accurate conclusions are made, and to be able to recognize the difference between science and opinion, goes to the basis of any arguments being made here. Many who like the videos realize the limitations of them, and have posted their opinions here without anyone posting against them. But the most vocal supporters of these videos have contributed little or no facts or theory towards how we can make an accurate objective conclusion based on the videos. They just offer opinions and criticism, with no facts to prove any point other than they disagree with science or something.
I got a kick out of the poll - let's figure out science the same way politicians do - let's make a poll that has questions that favor the result we want, then vote on it! If most agree, it must be true! I get the impression that you guys want the freedom to post a bunch of bad conclusions and overreaching analysis of a knife based on watching a video, without anyone else having the right to post how wrong your opinions are!
I'm sure you will pick apart my post, being careful not to quote any of the questions I ask you (that can easily be answered without any sample calculations), so fire away. Though it would be much more informative if you offered up your answer to my questionin the second paragraph above. Any accurate answer to that question will make it plainly apparent that they are video reviews, and that is it.
If you like them from that perspective, then good for you, and I've never disagreed with that. I personally find them to be silly, full of hype, & can see the testing started with little or no forethought or research.
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Agree, so what is in that so bad and worth 610 post worth thread and all that "let's ban him", he's corrupting n00bs, let's protect innocnets etc...
I repeatedly told you, a) I am defending, or more concerned with "freedom of tests, knife use etc" than Noss in particular. And I also told you, if later on, when you set up your site, or post your test results, if you get attacked in the manner Noss was, I'll be defending your right to test and post freely.
For the sake of argument, let's say you are right and they all are wrong. Still, that doesn't mean "knife testing police' here can go and hammer their ideas into the heads of those mistaken using their hammer of truth, vs. Noss' hammer which he uses exclusively on the knives.
You might laugh again, but that might be related to the way you post. And since you were arguing for more scientific and precise methods and data it would be logical to expect something factual from you.
Safety is of course important, but then again, there are very scientific tests involving considerable risks to the tester.
Not really. There are very few people who can say they see value in Noss' test, w/o being attacked by "non abusive testing police". Not every one here has the same reputation as Sal Glesser or Jerry Busse.
Was that ever anyone's goal here? Did someone try to force you to accept Noss' test results? Make you buy a knife based on his tests? Isn't that stuff for free, and final decision is always yours whether to visit that site, whether or not to watch the videos or how to buy the knife?
Absolutely not. But, forcing your "truth" into those mistaken heads isn't the best option either, especially when that truth isn't really well defined or formulated.
False. Nobody objected to criticism, and pretty much everyone agrees those videos have subjective/personal value, aren't very scientific, etc, etc... Objections were to namecalling, personal insults, let's ban/burn Noss, n00bs donno any better we have to protect them and such.
I think I answered your question. But the problem is you don't want to accept the fact, let alone my answer. They are video reviews and that's it. You can't prohibit people to watch it, or to like it. You can offer your opinion, but again, offering opinion can be done in different ways.
In other words, when you start a dialogue with a person and from the start you make it clear you consider him/her inferior, stupid, and look down, there is a very little chance you will convince that person in anything, no matter how right and you are.
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Ya know Broos I can understand your insistence on the supremacy of tightly controlled scientific testing, though as Mr. Glesser pointed out, it doesn't always translate into "real world" results when human or other imprecise factors are added. Just the simple notion that lab testing isn't always a perfect indicator of performance in the hands of people, implies that both are necessary to get an accurate assessment. Almost every day on Bladeforums we see people use the word test to describe less than scientifically controlled testing, heck I've seen some threads with the word test in their title that are nothing more than pictures of various people chopping on trees 
One common test that is referenced is how many deer I was able to process before my knife went dull. Yep, that's accurate 
But people who share these findings aren't usually jumped on for pushing inaccurate conclusions upon unsuspecting and gullible members, even when they use it in a comparative way. Why is that?
In the absence of a controlled lab environment, I don't see what is all that bad about using task specific goals as measurement guidelines. Hammer knife through wood, hammer knife through cinder block, stab tip in metal. It is to a large degree quite repeatable. Noss could easily add precision to his tests, e.g. make sure he is using the same materials for each test, my sure the temperature in the workshop is the same. Doing this would be beneficial IMO. What I don't understand in your position is why does it have to be all or nothing? Before the scientific method was firmly established and math developed to model the world and tools built to accurately measure forces, man was still learning and improving.
As far as what I've learned from these tests, well, I have more "experience" than I did before regarding the behavior of various production knives used in extreme ways. Is all the information 100% accurate, nope, it never could be, even with scientific testing, inaccuracies and false conclusions are always a possibility. So let's start another thread here and try to come up with some more scientific approaches to A) defining knife toughness and B) implementing a scientific test for it. Whaddya say?
One common test that is referenced is how many deer I was able to process before my knife went dull. Yep, that's accurate But people who share these findings aren't usually jumped on for pushing inaccurate conclusions upon unsuspecting and gullible members, even when they use it in a comparative way. Why is that? In the absence of a controlled lab environment, I don't see what is all that bad about using task specific goals as measurement guidelines. Hammer knife through wood, hammer knife through cinder block, stab tip in metal. It is to a large degree quite repeatable. Noss could easily add precision to his tests, e.g. make sure he is using the same materials for each test, my sure the temperature in the workshop is the same. Doing this would be beneficial IMO. What I don't understand in your position is why does it have to be all or nothing? Before the scientific method was firmly established and math developed to model the world and tools built to accurately measure forces, man was still learning and improving.
As far as what I've learned from these tests, well, I have more "experience" than I did before regarding the behavior of various production knives used in extreme ways. Is all the information 100% accurate, nope, it never could be, even with scientific testing, inaccuracies and false conclusions are always a possibility. So let's start another thread here and try to come up with some more scientific approaches to A) defining knife toughness and B) implementing a scientific test for it. Whaddya say?
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You mean, they don't use blanks and controls?
I've never watched and from reading here, I don't intend to. I can go out and test my own knives to see which I want to depend on.
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31 pages?!
::Applauding::
Way to go, Noss. Way to go.
:thumbup:
::Applauding::
Way to go, Noss. Way to go.
:thumbup:
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Wrong, wrong, wrong.
If you do something in a scientific way, you do it carefully and thoroughly, using experiments or tests. All "scientific testing" are subjective to the method used.
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Well then it certainly doesn't belong in THIS thread
LOL...I agree...I don't know Noss but I have watched a few of his videos...but if the man wants to spend his time and money trying to decipher what makes a knife "tough". Then by all means go for it.
Who knows Lynn Thompson might hire him to do the next Proof DVD...that would toast a lot of forumites cheese sandwich.
Hell, LT might even make Noss wear a pair of his own trademark spandex shorts. That would definitely cause Guyon to have a stroke... Sounds like a good idea there, it would probably be a good match. They both have sites that appeal to mall/survival ninja's and It really couldnt hurt either of their reps or make them any more rediculous.Who knows Lynn Thompson might hire him to do the next Proof DVD...that would toast a lot of forumites cheese sandwich.
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