Knifetests.com-whats YOUR opinion

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What i don't get is in noss4's latest video, he insults broos all the while proclaiming that hammering doesnt break knives and in the end he snaps the blade off with the hammer, right where he had been hitting it to baton it thru various things. :foot:

If you read back, broos predicted this and it looks like he was right. :cool: Hammering does create stresses in the steel that may lead to failure and make noss's "testing" results inherently flawed and inconclusive.

I think someone owes someone an apology. :rolleyes:


Broos said:
It is often not easy reading, but anyone with a little technical acumen can do some searching & reading into just how little is learned by randomly hitting a small piece of really hard steel with larger piece of work-hardened and irregularly shaped steel (I recall they make no attempt to ever face the hammer or regulate the blows or the impact locations) until the small piece breaks. Hardened steel on hardened steel impacts leads to immense local stresses due to the resistance of the hard steel to deformation and the small area of impact.
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orthogonal1 said:
Actually, it is grade school stuff (at least when I graduated, but perhaps your education was to a lower standard :)).
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I didnt realize you went to Yokohama U. Maybe you can give us a lecture on what you found out about inhomogeneities in steel and how they can affect toughness. And you can probably whip out a weibull distribution analysis in your sleep. :D Seriously, you do not know what you are talking about.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119259159/abstract
 
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Karda said:
What i don't get is in noss4's latest video, he insults broos all the while proclaiming that hammering doesnt break knives and in the end he snaps the blade off with the hammer, right where he had been hitting it to baton it thru various things.
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I must have missed the part where he claimed that hammering doesn't break knives. Clearly he broke the knife with a hammer.

I do think the insults were totally uncalled for and not very classy, but that's a separate issue.

Where did he say hammering doesn't break knives?
 
Broos said:
Science already knows how to make a test repeatable. They already know how to use sample size & statistics to prove something. The information is out there on the WWW for all to see at any time. The problem is a poor understanding by many of what is true, and what is not true.
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Science does't show the true, it show utopia in progressive state=evolution?
Science is progressive and evolutionary...Which means that every day brings new truth....and then when comparing yesterday scientific test with today scientific test You will see, that the test of yesterday was wrong and the test of to day your are not sure!!??

Anyway the MOB looking forward for your test.
'Be ready for the same butterfly effect that Noss 's receiving.
 
ishiyumisan said:
Science does't show the true, it show utopia in progressive state=evolution?
Science is progressive and evolutionary...Which means that every day brings new truth....and then when comparing yesterday scientific test with today scientific test You will see, that the test of yesterday was wrong and the test of to day your are not sure!!??

Anyway the MOB looking forward for your test.
'Be ready for the same butterfly effect that Noss 's receiving.
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What a bunch of new age liberal arts crazy talk that is. That is what those people want you to think, so they can fill your head full of BS & convince you to call it good science. Seriously, tell me of any scientific test in the history of the world that was once right, but is now wrong. Just because some people came up with bad science and convinced a lot of sheep to believe them doesn't mean their science was good then or now. The number of people who believe in something has nothing to do with natural science.

When people are debating a scientific truth, and can't agree on it, there is always one of them that is right, and one that is wrong. If you are the one who is wrong, and do not have enough knowledge to even debate the issue, then one response is that you simply refuse to discuss it.

Now they could actually start reading and researching, then actually use the knowledge to either make improvements or make better arguments.

But just feeling insulted and wronged, combined with an inability to defend their methods or conclusions, is just a sign that there is no science going on.

Science is not about first taking videos of semi random actions, then trying to figure out what they actually can tell you. That is called making a video then scratching your head.

The last time I used that method and called it scientific was in 5th grade when me and my brothers shot a little froggie up in an estes rocket. Poor fella didn't make it. Maybe nossy is willing to do a similar test - he can shoot himself, and a $15 CS PRC special up into near orbit. Then you could measure how far they both penetrate the ground when they fall back to earth, and figure out which is denser - noss4 or the knife steel. We'll call it the noss density test. I want to know that my knife is even denser than noss. Who will survive??? It certainly passes his litmus test in that it would get a lot of hits! (and it won't tell anyone very much about nothing) :D
 
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Here is the procedure detailing the standard for measuring uncertainty in a charpy test - this is the test that is used to measure toughness in steels.

Pretty simple, just like orthogonal has claimed, as you can see. :foot:

And if you are familiar with the charpy machine, even after noss4 solves 96% of the problems with his semi-randomly smashing a knife with a steel hammer, he'll only have a list of 12 possible issues to deal with and these simple uncertainty calculations to perform before coming up with any measurement as accurate or precise as the toughness value given for the steel.

http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/SP9602-18Final-2.pdf
 
knarfeng said:
I think Broos' point is that the impacts could be standardized to be repeatable, but are not by Noss. And it looks like you agree.
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I think you could make all his "tests" repeatable, but I don't think the conclusions would be substantially different.
 
orthogonal1 said:
I think you could make all his "tests" repeatable, but I don't think the conclusions would be substantially different.
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What are the conclusions that you are referring to? The only conclusions I've ever seen associated with noss4 videos are posted in the threads by 14 year old ninjas. "Man, that knife is weak" is not a conclusion that tells anyone much.

If it is that steel A is tougher than steel B, then let's look up some toughness numbers and we'll see if you are right. Because once you make that test repeatable, you will be doing a charpy test and some strength tests. All information we have already from the steel mfgs.

Or maybe you refuse to comment further on how simple you think it is to measure and understand toughness.
 
they r fun to watch, i guess the real value in these videos he post is what knife to use when you try to cut through a car door? btw he also does some field test.
 
I will usually watch the tests up until the point he brings the hammer out. Peeling an apple, chopping, batoning, digging with the tip, etc... I can live with.
 
It never ceases to amuse me how often and how lengthy the arguments become over this noss clown and his stunts. It has virtually been elevated to the heights of passion and stupidity that normally attach to religious arguments. Noss is the cult leader with his fanboy band of true believers who, despite all argument of logic and reason, will continue to believe his nonsense and assert his status as the true prophet of knife "testing". On the other hand, we have a bunch of people who don't seem to realise the true futility of trying to reason with the zealots.

The whole thing is a comedy show.
 
ishiyumisan said:
Science does't show the true, it show utopia in progressive state=evolution?
Science is progressive and evolutionary...Which means that every day brings new truth....and then when comparing yesterday scientific test with today scientific test You will see, that the test of yesterday was wrong and the test of to day your are not sure!!??

Anyway the MOB looking forward for your test.
'Be ready for the same butterfly effect that Noss 's receiving.
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Where did you "learn" that? Certainly not in an engineering or science course. What a pile of pious, wishful thinking, new age euphemisms.
 
gajinoz said:
It never ceases to amuse me how often and how lengthy the arguments become over this noss clown and his stunts. It has virtually been elevated to the heights of passion and stupidity that normally attach to religious arguments. Noss is the cult leader with his fanboy band of true believers who, despite all argument of logic and reason, will continue to believe his nonsense and assert his status as the true prophet of knife "testing". On the other hand, we have a bunch of people who don't seem to realise the true futility of trying to reason with the zealots.

The whole thing is a comedy show.
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Oh, there's no reasoning with the nossites. (There's a better word for the group, but I'm not sure I can post it here.)

One can only keep repeating the mantra, "Stunts, not tests," in hopes that a few of the new guys will see the light.
 
Guyon said:
One can only keep repeating the mantra, "Stunts, not tests," in hopes that a few of the new guys will see the light.
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It's good to see you've finally recognized the dogma in your own position. But there's really no need to be so religious about all this.
 
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