Knives necessary in the outdoors?

kgd said:
The downside to this is that in many circumstances it can be near impossible keeping your clothing functionally warm. Unanticipated dunks, heavy sweating under rain gear that leaves you as wet as the rain itself and wet snow can make cause failure in clothing that otherwise should easily meet the task of keeping you warm.
Click to expand...


This is a really good point, and reminds me of another issue I've dealt with during longer trips in very cold weather. If you are out for more than a week or so on consistently sub-zero temperatures with a down bag, you're going to get ice in your bag. It's just dang near impossible to prevent - you perspire during the night, the vapor passes through the bag, and freezes on the outside. As you spend more days below freezing, the ice will build up inside the down, and start to rob you of your warmth.

If the weather is consistently bad, and you can't use the sun to dry and thaw your bag, you can get into a heap of trouble if you don't have the ability to build a fire. Now, granted, most "hiking" doesn't involve extended alpine trekking or dog sledding in the arctic, but it drives home the extra challenges of cold weather, and how important fire can be in those environments, no matter how much fancy modern gear you have with you.
 
I have never had to use the fire extiguisher in my shop... in fact, I have never used a fire extinguisher, ever. I still keep one in several rooms of my house.

In a lifetime of camping, canoeing, hiking, biking, snowboarding, etc... I have never NEEDED my FAK.... statistically speaking, I should just leave it at home, right?

Everybody has their own idea of what they need and what they don't need... that goes for guns, knives, cellphones, gps, stove... the list is endless. I see the knife as a critical tool for camping... some don't and that's fine. I don't carry a firearm into the woods and many wouldn't be caught dead without one. To each, his own.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't step into the woods with someone who doesn't carry a knife. That said, I would also respect if someone didn't want me on their trek without a gun.

To start a thread like this on a KNIFE FORUM is akin to starting a "why you don't need prayer" thread on a religious site. It provokes thought and makes us question our beliefs... which is always good. It reaffirmed my stance on this issue.... guess which side of the fence I'm on?

Rick
 
I the OP, Beef said he see's no reason for a knife OTHER than his SAK, with that point, I completle agree. That would be for the one day hike. For a multiday hike, I could get by well with just the SAK but would be pretty likely to have a fixed blade as well, or at least a larger heavy duty folder.
 
Last edited:
My point of view is that a knife is a needed item in the woods. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but some day it will be needed. I carry an Espit stove or Liquid Fuel stove with me on longer hikes, my food is normally gluten free Ramon and dried veggies but how am I going to open up the Ramon with out a knife? Sure they have perferrated edges and pull tabs but what if the company didn't do it right on the noodles I grabbed? I will now need some kind of cutting implement IE a knife Be it a folder or Fixed blade to get into my food.

First aid stuff is carried with me where ever I go. These days tap is "Easy" to cut but what if it's not? What if Someone has a puncture wound and the sterile pad is to big? Of course I always have a pair of EMT Shears in my kit but a knife for backup is good. Whittling the tent peg you need because one of your broke is easier with a knife then with my EMT Shears.

I always have fresh fruit and veggies with me on Backpacking trips because I get tired of Freeze dried foods and Ramon after a while. My 3" Folder makes quick work of slicing and coring the apple so I can share it, or eat it my self. How else am I going to cut up the summer sausage and cheese I brought with me if I don't have a knife?

On a short hike or day hike, I'll have a folder and sometimes I'll even have a fixed blade. When I go backpacking I'll have a folder and some kind of Fixed blade on my pack or on my belt. When I used to backpack southern Utah in College I'd carry either my SOG Government (6" Bladed bowie) or a 15" HI Sirupati Khukri (10" blade). Never had to use either of them any time I went but it was nice to know that I have them just in case.

The knife on my SOG Powerlock got used 2 springs ago in Maple Canyon to pop a blister and then cut the pandages to wrap it. I'm sure the group I was with would have eventually found a way to do that but instead they spent the time chatting aroud the fire instead of looking for improvised cutting/poking tools.

I'm the Emergency Preperdness guy for my church/college group and every 72 hour list I've seen includes a knife/multi-tool in it. As others have said, I'd rather have it and not need to use it, then not have it and Die or be worse off because of it. As I've already mentioned earlier, I've used my folder on all my backpacking trips to open packages, cut medical supplies and what not. For me, It's a must have. Even if I forget my Folder when I leave the house(yeah it's happened a few times) I still have the knife blade on my Multi-tool.

So yes, a knife of some kind be it a folder, Fixed blade or Multi-tool is a must. Just like the First aid kit, extreme weather gear and fire kit.

Heber
 
You don't need any equipment at all for a hike. Until you do.
There is a simple reason the knife as a tool has persisted for millennia.
Human teeth and nails just don't cut it.

That is all.
 
MustardMan said:
This is a really good point, and reminds me of another issue I've dealt with during longer trips in very cold weather. If you are out for more than a week or so on consistently sub-zero temperatures with a down bag, you're going to get ice in your bag. It's just dang near impossible to prevent - you perspire during the night, the vapor passes through the bag, and freezes on the outside. As you spend more days below freezing, the ice will build up inside the down, and start to rob you of your warmth.
Click to expand...

Three words....vapor barrier liner. :)
 
Vapor barriers have their own issues in extreme cold weather. They are a potential fix for some problems, and can exacerbate others. I'd rather just build a fire.

And even with a vapor barrier, sleeping bags can still get ice in them. It just happens slower. About the only foolproof solution to totally prevent your bag from icing is to use one of those obscenely heavy and bulky specialized foam sleeping bags. You could take a dunk in a river in one of those, wring it out, and have a warm night.
 
I don't do multiday hiking so can't comment there. I do go on dayhikes and I have to say the only item I NEED is a water bottle. Yet I like being prepared so I carry survival items just in case and that includes a knife, and a hatchet for bad weather. Everyone should have the skills to survive without a knife but those that have those skills generally carry a knife anyway. There's just a lot of tasks that become easier and faster when you have knife.
 
I hike very often and while I don't need a knife everytime my life is always made easier having a knife with me be it a folder or a fixed blade
 
IMO a knife is basic equipment for planet earth. I EDC a Spyderco Endura and every once in a while my hand relexively goes to the pocket to pluck off the knife and... its not there. Its a disaster and that's here in my semi-urban life. In the bush here in Brazil you have to have a machete. If I have my machete whatever other knife I have sees little use. An axe here is dead weight. I don't mind carrying a small fixed blade such as my NRGS necker or a Mora, its just not enough of a load to bother leaving it behind and they sure make many tasks easier than using the machete.

Since I was 12 I haven't been knifeless on purpose unless I was flying commercial aviation.

Mac
 
tonym said:
Hey Rotte,

I was being civil. I never called Beef a troll, I just stated why people may see his OP as trollish.
A thread on how we would survive with out a knife is a great idea.
Click to expand...

Ah, sorry Tony, I mixed two ideas together in my post there. Sloppy writing on my part. Never meant to imply that you weren't being civil; I always value your input. Just fighting with you there. :D

Cheers Brother.:thumbup:
 
In reality, is food a "necessity" on a multi-day hike? I'm sure folks have walked as far without eating. If you can make it without a knife, then, that time, it was not a necessity.
 
I skipped about 3 pages in the middle because of redundancy, so I may just be adding to it. But I hope not

I think the ultimate answer to your question is this: "to each is there own" - not sure who said it first but its widely used

If you don't feel you need a knife on a day hike other than your SAK, then lose the weight.

However the one time your in the woods, and find yourself saying "man I wish I had a bigger knife" - Id be willing to bet you never went out with out one, from that point on.

Me personally, I take a couple of knives, and a firearm; basically because, I can. Do I need them? Absolutely, there are millions of "what if" scenarios out there, a few of which have already been pointed out.

as an aside but still on topic: Some people have asked why I spend so much time and money on equipment.

My answer is this: you cant take either of them with you when your gone, however I can enjoy the heck out of my equipment while I am still here!

Have fun, and be safe; knife or not...
 
Really too bad skammer's no longer around.

I for myself have also noticed that I rarely NEED to draw my blade while in the outdoors.

My default setup contains some beefy small fixed (fallkniven/Skookum...) and a small light fixed blade (mora)-back up, weights nothing.
On the top of that I generally carry some big blade or axe, but that's mostly for fun.
I've gone into lightweight backpacking... mostly so I can save weight to carry more knives.

I think it is all about how much you plan to use natural ressources.

On one hand it is perfectly possible to hike inside a "techno bubble" using gas stove, enclosed silnylon tent and heating dry frozen meals.
On the other hand it is also possible (although requiring a lot more skills) to hike into the wilderness with nothing than a few essentials (knife, pot, waterproof basha), and procure what you need from nature.
Technically one could do with even less, knaping his blades out of stone, carving his bowls out of wood or clay, making shelter out of bark.
American natives and many other cultures did lives centuries with out mastering iron or even any metal.

Line is quite blurry. Most of the people on this board lie somewhere between those two extremes. Beginners are doing something like "car camping with knives" while even the most seasoned members use a fair share of technical stuff while being out (even Ray Mears or Kochanski probably light more fires using a good'o' lighter or matches than bow drill).

"Techno bubble hiking" does work, and it is generally the most straight forward way to "get the job done". It has its drawbacks but also contains its own "contingency plans".

"Natural ressources hiking" has its shot too. It requires more commitment and skills and is maybe more rewarding. It maybe more rustic but the "foraging hiker" calling the "techno hiker" black because "if your titanium stove breaks down you're screwed" is arguable from someone who will spend a lot of time handling potentially dangerous sharp blades.

Please also note the fact that if "foraging hiking" REQUIRES more skills, "techno hikers" are necessarly incompetent. Yes techno hiking is more foregiving so you are more likely to meet "techno hiker" with little skills but it doesn't mean you can't have both the techs and skills. Because you can read a map and orientate doesn't mean you can't have a GPS. Those who are out by trade or by duty and are result-oriented (military, forest surveyors, SAR teams...) will generally have both.

Native from the past/aborigenes would probably have called our trappers and mountain men "techno hiker", explaining them "yeah your so-called gun thingy is very nice but when SHTF and it breaks down or you loose it you can't make another while I can carve a new bow out of a piece of wood", on the other hand they were quick to adopt steel or horses.
 
beef said:
Thanks for the response Loosearrow, but I'm not a woman on a short walk in the woods. I'm a man who regularly does multi day offtrack walks. As for experience, I have been walking this way for more than 10 of my adult years. I am not a novice.

Hi ac1d0v3r1d3, I too like carrying and using knives outdoors. And as I stated in the OP, I carry knives not because I deem them essential, but because I like them.

Can I ask how many people in this thread have read the original post? The OP does not just consist of the title. I can draw pictures if the reading is proving too troublesome...
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are very well prepared and have skills. Since you will probably not be out for a very long time, you probably will do just fine without a knife. It's what is in your head that counts the most.
 
Deleted, as I completely got the wrong end of the stick. Very confused.
 
Last edited:
I think knives are fun. Even if not needed I almost always do somethoing with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top