Knives necessary in the outdoors?

[PayetteRucker]

Haha, thank God for neck knives...

 

[tonym]

Hi All,
I've been musing on whether a knife is really a necessity in the outdoors. First I think I should specify that I mean when day hiking or multi day backpacking.

Scenario1: I'm day hiking, stop for lunch, use my stove to make some tea, complete the walk with no problems. I always carry thermals/ fleece/ rain gear in a dry bag, plenty of water (up to 6L on a ridgetop walk) and esbit tabs/ stove.
Where's my need for a knife? If I couldn't get out that day, I'd be forced to put on my clothing, put on my rain gear, sit on my pack and wait out the night. If I was cold I'd stuff leaves in my jacket, find one of the innumerable caves on the side of the ridge protected from the wind. Or fire up the esbit.

That may get you through the night just fine in your area, but not mine or some of the other members here. And what if 1 night turns into several??? I have hiked hundreds of times with out using my first aid kit, should I just leave it at home???

Scenario 2: I'm on one of my multi day walks when I break a leg. I pull out my blue foam mat, hop in my sleeping bag and pull the tarp over the top if I can't set it up. If I'm solo with no mobile reception, I wait there till the TWO people I've told realise I'm overdue and alert the SES (State Emergency Service).
Use for a knife? Nada.

What if it windy, did you tie that tarp down? Did you have cordage?, why didn't you splint your leg? A knife would have come in handy for all those reasons and more.

I think the cliche and romantic notions of having to use your knife to build a little shelter, kill an animal and live off the land are fantasy.
A lot of serious multi week trip backpackers don't even take one. Or if they do, it's a SAK classic to trim toenails.

If you don't carry the ten essentials, in particular insulative clothing and rain gear then maybe you will have a need to build shelter and make a big fire. But any experienced walker does. Noone would consciously think "I don't need to bring my fleece jacket, I've got my axe".

A SAK is a knife, I am pretty sure thats what the K stands for.. I believe many more experienced hikers and outdoorsman will not consciously think "I don't need to bring my knife, I've got my fleece jacket.."

Consider the other much loved scenario of falling in a river and becoming soaked. Which is it easier to do, open a dry bag and put on your insulative clothing, or build a fire whilst shivering? If you're shivering, do you really want to be messing round with a knife anyway.

If you cut yourself due to poor fine motor skills, would you have the dexterity left to administer first aid to yourself?

Ok, take the possibility, that your dy bag failed and now is a wet bag. Or you have become seperated from your pack. (It happens) a knife will then be a handy tool to get a fire started. (taken you have the skill to do it)
Or even if you do change your clothes, into dry clothes. I bet you're still gonna want that fire if you're hurt, and to dry out your jacket and warmer more insulative clothing...

Last scenario: The classic losing your pack situation. If I'm doing a serious trip, I do it with companions who are also experienced. If I miraculously lose my pack in a river crossing, they've still got their packs full of gear. We'd all have to simultaneously lose our packs for us to end up in the "use a knife to build a hut and weave clothing situation".

And if you are not doing a serious trip??? Or what if you became seperated from your pack and your group???? There is so many more scenarios that call for you to have a knife than to not have a knife.. How hard is it carry a 4" little folding SAK, or even a 8" over all Fixed blade? Will a few ounces really ruin a trip???

Obviously some outdoor activities like hunting and fishing do require a knife, so no chest beating thanks. This is referring to hiking.
I do bring my knives, spoon knife and saw on trips where my focus is wood carving.

It'd be great to hear other people's take on this topic.

I hope you realize you typed in wwwdotbladeforumsdotcom. Then you came to the wilderness and survival skills subforum to post a statement on why you didn't need a knife in the woods..

Did you really expect people to not call you a troll

For what its worth, I hope you stick around and contribute some of your hiking adventures. I haver always wanted to explore Australia and its beautiful vast country side. When I do, it will be with a knife on my side though

Good day.

 

[ROCK6]

:thumbup:

I have to say though, that some of us can no longer hump 30 - 40 knives, and have to limit ourselves to 8 - 10.

Old age can be such a bummer.

The good news is I think we'll be importing some of those Bushman5 pack mules they have in Canada to us knife-nuts south of the border in the lower 48 They can pack up to 30-40 pounds in blade steel:thumbup:

So, I guess the Beef is right...why would I need to carry a knife when my B5 pack mule can carry multiple knives for me

ROCK6

 

[flipe8]

There's something about a fire, and woodworking, and bushcrafting and being down to earth that does alot more for your soul than cranking up a propane stove and boiling water to make dinner that you eat with your REI tiware spork...

It's been my take that there's quite a difference between the typical backpacker/mountaineer and the typical bushcrafter and I don't think one's better than the other, just different. Reality is, there are times when "bushcraft" isn't the goal of the adventure at all. The skill-sets might have some crossover,but the two activities are quite different. Most, if not all my trips involve the "tiware spork" and whatnot, as it's simply better for the things I do. You don't get that sense of satisfaction from the fire you made or the shelter you erected, as more times than not, there's no fire at all, and nothing to chop down. I don't think you were trying to knock the "gear techies", but I think the two activites offer equal levels of satisfaction, just in different ways:thumbup:

 

[dawsonbob]

The good news is I think we'll be importing some of those Bushman5 pack mules they have in Canada to us knife-nuts south of the border in the lower 48 They can pack up to 30-40 pounds in blade steel:thumbup:

So, I guess the Beef is right...why would I need to carry a knife when my B5 pack mule can carry multiple knives for me

ROCK6

It is a thing devoutly to be wished for.

If we were to get said mules, I think I would want one to hump my sorry self around, too: I would be able to get out a lot more with a B5 mule than I can on my broken down self transport system (which the VA has been promising to fix, but hasn't).

ETA: I seem to remember a thread a while ago where someone said a knife was unnecessary, because they could always just borrow one from a passer by. That one sure stirred up a hornet's nest, too.

 

[PayetteRucker]

I really don't see stove camping as satisfactory at all. in my opinion it's like trying to bring a hotel room to the outdoors. I like being primative so I can be one with nature, live life differently for a few days out of my life, not try to live the same outside as I do in my apartment.

 

[ROCK6]

It is a thing devoutly to be wished for.

If we were to get said mules, I think I would want one to hump my sorry self

Uhh...I don't think that WSS is that kind of forum dawson

ROCK6

 

[flipe8]

I'm assuming we're all getting away to avoid the normal lives we live. If anyone has been above treeline in a tent with 100mile winds and -70 windchills, I wouldn't think that qualifies as "bringing a hotel room to the outdoors"

 

[dawsonbob]

Uhh...I don't think that WSS is that kind of forum dawson

ROCK6

ROFLMAO! Uhh... carry, Rock, I meant carry! I don't think W&SS is that kind of forum either. I've just never been attracted to mules, myself... although there was this cute little goat once who had the prettiest brown eyes...

 

[PayetteRucker]

I'm assuming we're all getting away to avoid the normal lives we live. If anyone has been above treeline in a tent with 100mile winds and -70 windchills, I wouldn't think that qualifies as "bringing a hotel room to the outdoors"

If you sit inside a tent all night boiling soup over a gas stove and sleep on a pad in a plush sleeping bag, what's the difference than doing the same thing in your house?

 

[PayetteRucker]

The good news is I think we'll be importing some of those Bushman5 pack mules they have in Canada to us knife-nuts south of the border in the lower 48 They can pack up to 30-40 pounds in blade steel:thumbup:

So, I guess the Beef is right...why would I need to carry a knife when my B5 pack mule can carry multiple knives for me

ROCK6

Heh, I'll pack for ya, up to 150 pounds limited to pack volume, you just gotta pay for the expenses to get me there

 

[Rotte]

I hope you realize you typed in wwwdotbladeforumsdotcom. Then you came to the wilderness and survival skills subforum to post a statement on why you didn't need a knife in the woods..

Did you really expect people to not call you a troll

Tony, I for one appreciated beef raising the issue and giving us something to debate this morning. I still think it's a fair question to pose as well. For guys who have been around the forum for a while and have picked up a few tips and tricks here, I bet we are better prepared to survive without a knife than your average man-off-the-street. I'd argue this decreases our need for a knife.

While I wouldn't want to wander out my back door without a blade, reading a lot of great material here in W&SS and practicing some important skills has definitely increased my confidence to survive without a knife. So the question of need becomes quite relative. Most of the responses in this thread have been that a knife is an important contingency item--in my mind that makes it more of a nice-to-have item than a necessity.

I can make fire, collect water, and construct shelter without a knife (in many environments). A knife makes those tasks easier, but that doesn't make a knife a necessity. With modern gear and camping techniques--knives are not needed, except as a back up tool.

IIRC, we had a thread addressing our top 3 survival items a while ago where several people put a metal pot or container at the top of their survival kit, followed by fire making gear, followed by a tarp or poncho. And these responses were collected on a knife website!

Fair question, let's keep it a civil fight. :thumbup:

 

[NeoClassic]

Wolves whipe out herds of sheep for sport and leave their corpses to rot.

Are you sure wolves get pleasure from killing herds of sheep? I thought they did it because they were rabid.

I agree with you on the hiking to isolate from humanity for a time. :thumbup:

 

[PayetteRucker]

As far as I know it's not rabies, there are so damn many I think they're all just pepped up from pack mentality, trying to show dominance maybe.

 

[NeoClassic]

Hi All,
I've been musing on whether a knife is really a necessity in the outdoors. First I think I should specify that I mean when day hiking or multi day backpacking.

Scenario1: I'm day hiking, stop for lunch, use my stove to make some tea, complete the walk with no problems. I always carry thermals/ fleece/ rain gear in a dry bag, plenty of water (up to 6L on a ridgetop walk) and esbit tabs/ stove.
Where's my need for a knife? If I couldn't get out that day, I'd be forced to put on my clothing, put on my rain gear, sit on my pack and wait out the night. If I was cold I'd stuff leaves in my jacket, find one of the innumerable caves on the side of the ridge protected from the wind. Or fire up the esbit.

Scenario 2: I'm on one of my multi day walks when I break a leg. I pull out my blue foam mat, hop in my sleeping bag and pull the tarp over the top if I can't set it up. If I'm solo with no mobile reception, I wait there till the TWO people I've told realise I'm overdue and alert the SES (State Emergency Service).
Use for a knife? Nada.

I think the cliche and romantic notions of having to use your knife to build a little shelter, kill an animal and live off the land are fantasy.
A lot of serious multi week trip backpackers don't even take one. Or if they do, it's a SAK classic to trim toenails.

If you don't carry the ten essentials, in particular insulative clothing and rain gear then maybe you will have a need to build shelter and make a big fire. But any experienced walker does. Noone would consciously think "I don't need to bring my fleece jacket, I've got my axe".

Consider the other much loved scenario of falling in a river and becoming soaked. Which is it easier to do, open a dry bag and put on your insulative clothing, or build a fire whilst shivering? If you're shivering, do you really want to be messing round with a knife anyway.

If you cut yourself due to poor fine motor skills, would you have the dexterity left to administer first aid to yourself?

Last scenario: The classic losing your pack situation. If I'm doing a serious trip, I do it with companions who are also experienced. If I miraculously lose my pack in a river crossing, they've still got their packs full of gear. We'd all have to simultaneously lose our packs for us to end up in the "use a knife to build a hut and weave clothing situation".

I love knives as much as anyone else on here. But I can't justify bringing one on a trip, other than my SAK with the scissors (useful) and tweezers (very useful for ticks and splinters).
But luckily I don't have to justify bringing my toys, I can pack whatever I want.

Obviously some outdoor activities like hunting and fishing do require a knife, so no chest beating thanks. This is referring to hiking.
I do bring my knives, spoon knife and saw on trips where my focus is wood carving.

It'd be great to hear other people's take on this topic.

As someone who has just started build a knife collection and explore the outdoors in any depth, I've thought about the question you pose many times and appreciate the fact that you took the time to post it.

The more I learn about knives, the more I realize I'm probably never going to use a 7" Kabar for what I choose to do in the outdoors.

But I'm probably one of those that would pack a Mora 510 b/c it's so light, it gives me pleasure to use and peace of mind. That could change, depending on whether I ever were to get into the ultra-light fetish. But then again, I think if I did, I'd probably look at the knife as a weight saver as some others have mentioned already, rather than dead weight.

All of that said, the knife I most often carry every day is a Vic Bantam Alox.

 

[udtjim]

I will get thrown from the WSS. I have to have the SAK for the can opener. If I am going to take the whole house, gotta have a can opener.

Many places where i have camped, I could have made a flint knife in a matter of minutes. I too, think it is important to learn how to get by without a knife, or after having lost a knife or broke it by batoning with a rock.

 

[Rotte]

I too, think it is important to learn how to get by without a knife, or after having lost a knife or broke it by batoning with a rock.

OK, that was too funny. Time to clean off the keyboard...

 

[mdauben]

Use for a knife? Nada.

It's easy enough to come up with an emergency scenario where you don't need a knife. For ever one you come up with, I'm sure I can come up with one based on the same starting point that does require a knife. IMO just becuase there is a chance you can get buy without a knife is no reason to feel they are totally un-needed.

I think the cliche and romantic notions of having to use your knife to build a little shelter, kill an animal and live off the land are fantasy.

Many times this is true, but its not a fantasy often enough for me to think having a knife is worthwhile.

A lot of serious multi week trip backpackers don't even take one. Or if they do, it's a SAK classic to trim toenails.

And I would argue a lot of "serious" backpackers are seriously underequipped. As long as things go well, they can get along with the bare-bones, minimalist kit they bring along. Once things start to go wrong, though, the short comings of their gear selection can start to show.

If you don't carry the ten essentials, in particular insulative clothing and rain gear then maybe you will have a need to build shelter and make a big fire.

Personally, I consider my knife just part of my essential gear. There are times when the fleece pullover, or the poncho, or the paracord or the map and compass are what is going to save the day. Just becuase its not always the answer does not mean it will never be the answer.

Now, I think many people here sometimes take much more in the way of edged tools than they really need, but then so do I. Is 2-3 knives of various sizes, and axe and a full set of sharpening stones needed for a day hike, or even a week in the woods? Not really, but I would never walk past the trailhead without some sort of cutting tool on my belt, in my pack or in my pockets.

 

[KiljoyKutlery]

To those who read the original post, thankyou for your responses.

To those who only read the title, or who were incapable of reading the entire post, I have some English Comprehension links I'd be happy to post that can help with reading skills.

That wasnt very polite.
Not a good way to get taken seriously.
Now, some other posters have been a bit rude IMO, I think that you are right..walking doesnt require a knife. Not in a city or a blazed trail. But, this is a wilderness and survival forum, we talk about tools and why/ how to use them. I can see your side of it, and dont agree...I carry a knife or 2 with me everyday, and I use them everyday. So I dont know how anyone, can get along without one. But, I am a tool guy, and I do stuff...if I didnt do anything, I might not need anything.

 

[KiljoyKutlery]

There are always plenty of people who spend much time afield and claim they don't need to carry much of a knife, if any. They come back to tell us that it was never a problem, and I believe them. There's no reason to believe what they say isn't true.

What you hardly ever hear is the story from someone who found themselves in an unexpected predicament, needed a knife desperately, and didn't have one.

Anyone know why?

OOO! OOOh! I know, I know!!! THEIR DEAD!